Need a new car? Better have deep pockets.

[raljr1]

That may be the market in CO, but there is plenty of evidence out there that dealers are penalizing cash buyers. There was even legislation enacted to drop the hammer on such practices, which it now seems a cross-party pair of senators want revoked. Some examples may be found in the links.

What You Should Know About Being A Cash Buyer At A Dealership

This one requires a subscription, but I think the headline is enough.

Car Dealerships Don’t Want Your Cash—They Want to Give You a Loan - WSJ

This Reddit thread describes a slew of dodgy practices.

Reddit - Dive into anything

Do this.

. The dealership offered an additional $2,000 discount to take one of their loans, at a not so great 4.5 percent APR. However, because his state has no pre-payment penalty for auto loans, he took the loan, got the discount, made payments for two months, then wrote a check for the balance of the car.

Robert

 

[coltle6920]

That may be the market in CO, but there is plenty of evidence out there that dealers are penalizing cash buyers. There was even legislation enacted to drop the hammer on such practices, which it now seems a cross-party pair of senators want revoked.

Caveat emptor... Such a novel idea for the uninformed or just misinformed. I don't think it's necessary to discuss how stupid or just plain gullible so many people are. These same idiots think that legislation will solve the problem.

People are being charged for things they didn't ask for but don't ask that the charges be removed. People don't ask for an explanation of all charges displayed on the window sticker. Most people don't like to shop for a better deal than the one offered. People are going to do what they want and it isn't my job to educate them. We can define "stupid" but will never cure it.

My 2006 XLT F-150 cost $32k. It's not that unreasonable to think that today's vehicle cost is not that far out of line. We are part of a Global economy. The supply chain severely affects cost and production. We don't manufacture cars and trucks. We wait for the parts to come in and assemble them into the finished product. Add in Covid and inflation and that's where we're at.

Are there dealers with shady practices out there? One would be a fool to think otherwise but I doubt it's as rampant as your posted links would have us believe. The ship is sinking fast and I'm afraid it's every man for himself.

 

[Beemerguy53]

Why? Because they can get away with it. And why can they get away with it? Because America runs on spending money you don't have. Let me say that again, America runs on spending money you don't have.
Don't believe me? Apply for a job, or an apartment, or have a background check run on you. One of the things they are gonna check is your credit score. Because this country values you more on how you borrow money than anything else.
Live within your means, buy everything cash, and you're a second class citizen who isn't doing his part to grow the economy. So, when it comes to buying something big ticket, like a car, you're the outlier if you're not willing to mortgage the next 6-7 years of your life away. You're a "bad risk". And you should be sent to the Island of Misfit Toys.

The problem with folks who live within their means and pay cash for everything is that they don't develop a credit history. When they eventually do need to borrow money for something big, lending institutions have no way to assess whether they are a good credit risk. It's not that they're second-class citizens or bad risks...they are simply unknowns.

 

[CalifEd]

The problem with folks who live within their means and pay cash for everything is that they don't develop a credit history. When they eventually do need to borrow money for something big, lending institutions have no way to assess whether they are a good credit risk. It's not that they're second-class citizens or bad risks...they are simply unknowns.

Rather than pay cash for everything (unless the merchant charges a 2-3% CC fee), I will use 1 of my 2 CC's and then pay them off at the end of the billing month.
I get a fantastic credit score and as an added benefit, I get an annual 4 digit 'cash back' check for using one of my cards.

 

[rockquarry]

The problem with folks who live within their means and pay cash for everything is that they don't develop a credit history. When they eventually do need to borrow money for something big, lending institutions have no way to assess whether they are a good credit risk. It's not that they're second-class citizens or bad risks...they are simply unknowns.

I don't know if there is truth in that statement or not, but before assuming it was accurate, I would consult a professional.

 

[steelslaver]

Or 1,000 hours for a $25,000 truck. So; let's do math...from 1970 to 2023 is....let's see...53 years. Looks like inflation has run rampant (or not).

Actually you need to work way more than a thousand hours once you figure in taxes and your tax rate at $25 an hour is significantly higher than at $7. Just your SS deduction at a 5% would go from $.35 an hour to $1.25 or from $700 per year to $2,500per year . Plus $7x 2000= $14,000 per year and $105 per year in income tax, while $25 x2000=$50,000=$4,250 income tax.

So at $7 at years end you pay $805 and keep $13,195 or $6.60 per hour and at $25 you pay $6,750 and keep $43,250 or $21.63 per hour and you will need to work 1,156 hours to pay for a $25,000 truck.

Not only that the sales tax at just 5% goes from $300 to
on a $6000 truck to $1,250 on a $25,000 truck. Your property tax on what was a $50,000 home and is now a $350,000 home is also way higher. So. with the sales tax increase lets add another 58 hours of you labor for a total of over 1200 hours.

Yep, you need to work an additional 200 hours to pay off the increased tax burden created by inflation


Those tax increases are NOT covered if you simply adjust your income by the inflation rate. In 1980 $7 would purchase what $55 will now. BUT you will need to be making over $65 an hour to have the same purchasing power after taxes as compared to making that $7 in 1970

EDIT 1970 $7= $55.53 in 2023 Burt again that is just the purchasing power and does not include the huge increase in tax burden for making $55 instead of $7 an hour.


Very few people actually realize or stop to realize the hidden tax and loss of purchasing power caused by debit spending and inflation.

 

[Onomea]

... In 1980 $7 would purchase what $55 will now. ..

I was reading along and then saw that and thought, "What?! That can't be right."



Still, a big jump in dollars needed, or a big drop in dollar value...

 

[biku324]

In 43 years....

 

[Golddollar]

C

People are being charged for things they didn't ask for but don't ask that the charges be removed. People don't ask for an explanation of all charges displayed on the window sticker.

What is this "Destination Charge" I see so much on the window sticker?

 

[Golddollar]

The problem with folks who live within their means and pay cash for everything is that they don't develop a credit history. When they eventually do need to borrow money for something big, lending institutions have no way to assess whether they are a good credit risk. It's not that they're second-class citizens or bad risks...they are simply unknowns.

Am I correct in seeing something about that paying your rent and utility bills on time can help to establish a good credit score?

I remember many years ago I had my first job out of school. I probably didn't have much if any credit. But it seemed like ask around enough and somebody might take a chance. I needed a kitchen table and chairs, so I went into a old family furniture store in downtown Reading, PA and looked into a modest table and chairs. It may have been something left over from a larger furniture set. The store took a chance on me with their own credit system, and I made sure that the bill got paid early.

 

[lihpster]

The problem with folks who live within their means and pay cash for everything is that they don't develop a credit history. When they eventually do need to borrow money for something big, lending institutions have no way to assess whether they are a good credit risk. It's not that they're second-class citizens or bad risks...they are simply unknowns.

That's fine except it doesn't just come down to borrowing money. I couldn't be my father's conservator because my credit score wasn't good enough for me to be bonded. I know people who have not gotten jobs working in convenience stores because "anybody with that low of a credit score will steal out of the till". If it was just for borrowing money, I could understand, but it's into everything. Like it or not, it has become one of the things that the world uses to decide what your character is.

 

[steelslaver]

I was reading along and then saw that and thought, "What?! That can't be right."



Still, a big jump in dollars needed, or a big drop in dollar value...

That calculator just shows the purchasing power of the money. You will pay a lot higher percentage in taxes on $26 an hour than on $7 plus a lot more sales tax on the item at $26 than when it cost $7. If you live in a non sales tax state you will get nailed on the increased income number and property tax on inflated property values.

I also meant to type 1970 and from 1970 to 2023 it went from $7 to $55.53

 

[steelslaver]

In 43 years....

Read the part about increased tax burden on those inflated dollars in my post #66 and you will see it is far worse than you believe.

A direct increase in wage to match inflation doesn't come close to working out once that FACT is added

 

[biku324]

And yet every member of every living generation of my extended family lives better and with more prosperity than in the 1950s through the 1970s.

 

[NYlakesider]

Am I correct in seeing something about that paying your rent and utility bills on time can help to establish a good credit score?

I remember many years ago I had my first job out of school. I probably didn't have much if any credit. But it seemed like ask around enough and somebody might take a chance. I needed a kitchen table and chairs, so I went into a old family furniture store in downtown Reading, PA and looked into a modest table and chairs. It may have been something left over from a larger furniture set. The store took a chance on me with their own credit system, and I made sure that the bill got paid early.

Was in 10 grade in high school and got my first credit card. It arrived in my name unannounced or asked for from a large gas company. I started using it and paid it off on time each month. My buddy bought a gas station for another brand so I decided to get a card with that company. Filled out the form and was rejected.

Called the 800 number and the lady said oh your too young (17) to get a credit card. I told her I already had a card for close to a year with their competitor and she himmed & hawed a bit told me she would call back tomorrow. They must have checked me out because she said its a bit unusual but we will send you our card. They did and I used it faithfully and a year or so later I applied for a bank (I think it was a BAC) credit card and got it no problem. Not bad for barely being 18.

 

[DesertFox]

Trying to think of the last vehicle that I fully paid off... Current '21 F150 Powerboost Platinum is $500/mo (actually less but I rounded up) at 1.89% and I've had it for 26 months. Will be selling/trading for a '23 Lightning soon and will have spent under $15k driving a $73k truck around for that many months.

 

[steelslaver]

And yet every member of every living generation of my extended family lives better and with more prosperity than in the 1950s through the 1970s.

That may well be true. How many homeless people did you have in your home town when you were growing up.?

In 1973 after getting out of the Maine corps, I bought a 5 year old 68 Camaro and was renting a house. I was working as a roughneck in the oil patch and making $5 an hour. I do not know many 22 year olds who are currently making $31.09 that would equal that $5 BEFORE the additional tax bite. Very few 21 year olds are buying nice cars and renting houses on their own.

But, lets look at it after that tax burden deal

At $5 an hour is $10,000 per year with about $9,158 after
taxes in 73. To have the same purchasing power now , I would need $63,485 after taxes

$43 an hour is $86,000 per year and after taxes $63,315 at current rates

How many 22 year olds do you know knocking down $43 per hour???

Right now according to Zip recruiter most roughnecks make under $26 an hour, and in Montana where I broke out in 73 for $4.85 they are averaging $20. It is NOT easy money either.

 

[crankyoldlady]

And a nickle candy bar is now $2.39!

 

[Onomea]

That may well be true. How many homeless people did you have in your home town when you were growing up.?

In 1973 after getting out of the Maine corps, I bought a 5 year old 68 Camaro and was renting a house. I was working as a roughneck in the oil patch and making $5 an hour. I do not know many 22 year olds who are currently making $31.09 that would equal that $5 BEFORE the additional tax bite. Very few 21 year olds are buying nice cars and renting houses on their own.

But, lets look at it after that tax burden deal

At $5 an hour is $10,000 per year with about $9,158 after
taxes in 73. To have the same purchasing power now , I would need $63,485 after taxes

$43 an hour is $86,000 per year and after taxes $63,315 at current rates

How many 22 year olds do you know knocking down $43 per hour???

Right now according to Zip recruiter most roughnecks make under $26 an hour, and in Montana where I broke out in 73 for $4.85 they are averaging $20. It is NOT easy money either.

I don't think the reason, at least not the main reason, for for more homeless people in our cities nowadays than back when we were growing up is the lack of jobs or a living wage today.

Leaving that aside, I wanted to comment on 1973, being 22 years old, and $10K a year. I think it was 1974, when I was 22, or 1975, when I was 23, but I remember being so proud of myself that I had made over $10K. I don't recall what my hourly wage was then, but recall that took a fair amount of overtime for me to clear $10K. And I graduated college in 1975, too. Went to school nights.

No point to my post, really. Yours just took me back...

 

[biku324]

That may well be true. How many homeless people did you have in your home town when you were growing up.?

My hometown was 160 people in the poverty-stricken Ozarks. 'Homeless' people lived in old barns, sheds, or chicken houses (no electricity or plumbing) on charitable peoples' properties with newspaper pasted to the walls to fill cracks - we had one 'old' man named Gene Rodgers who lived in some woods no one cared about in a lean-to. Poor people were really, really poor, as in eat poke greens, acorns, squirrel, and rabbit year-round or steal field corn by necessity. But those taking government commodities could eat twice a month. If a local farmer needed a milker or hay-hauling help they would feed the family at least lunch and allowed squatting in outbuildings. If really, really desperate, you could flag down a deputy and be a one overnight 'sleeper' in the (thrice condemned) Lawrence County Jail.

Today's homeless have food and can get treated in a hospital.

Good 'ole days indeed.