Need Advice: Overcharged .38 RNFP with Titegroup

[KerrdogJ]

Hello! I am new to the forums and reloading and could use a bit of advice.

I was reloading some .38s with 158 grain lead, hard-cast RNFP for target loads using Titegroup powder. My powder chart lists 3.2 to 3.8 grains of powder as the acceptable range for reloading. However, I made a boneheaded mistake.

I stopped reloading those specific rounds in order to teach my new wife (1st time, recently married and wanting to impress ) how to reload. I changed everything over to XTPs since they are easier to teach her (I didn't want her to worry or stress about the lead). Later, I resumed reloading my 158 grain lead rounds, but forgot to change the powder measure back to the correct weight.

The XTPs use 4.3 grains, which is 0.5 more than the max recommended by Hodgdon (4.3 versus 3.8). I made 83 rounds before I noticed that something was not right. I have a bullet puller, but that is a lot of work to disassemble that many bullets. Is there a safety risk of firing these rounds of of my pistols?

If the only risk is bad accuracy, then I am fine with that. We can shoot them and still have fun doing it. However, if there is a safety risk, then I prefer not to place either of us at risk and will use the bullet puller to disassemble the rounds.

For reference, the two pistols that I own that might be able to handle the rounds are my Dan Wesson large frame .38/.357 magnum double-action revolver and my Ruger Blackhawk .38/.357 magnum single-six revolver.

 

[Kiwi cop]

Hodgdon's website lists 4.3 gns of Titegroup as a maximum load in .38 special +P at 19,300 CUP.

If fired in any good steel framed .38 special revolver they should be okay.

In a .357 revolver they should be fine where 158 gn lead loads run 24,900 CUP and jacketed loads 41,900 CUP according to Hodgdon's online load data.

 

[Hair Trigger]

You should be okay with them in either of the mentioned guns. The additional velocity may cause some leading of the barrel, so a good cleaning after shooting will be in order.

 

[bananaman]

Welcome to the FORUM! I load 6 calibers. When loading I make sure that there are no distractions of any kind. Someone watching me is a distraction. My loading equipment is away from household activities. No music or TV allowed. Better safe than sorry! Bob

 

[Rule3]

Pull them! Especially since you are using Titegroup an who know if you really have the charge correct. Do you have the COL correct??

Pulling them will be a good lesson,

Sure they may be OK but it's worse if they go Kboom and destroy your gun and injury yourself.

Say 83 Hail Marys!

"I made 83 rounds before I noticed that something was not right. I have a bullet puller, but that is a lot of work to disassemble that many bullets

Poor reasoning"!

 

[oysterer]

Titegroup is the fastest powder and therefor great for light target loads. Pressure builds up quick. It is not great for running at the upper limits getting into +P and magnum pressures. That is what mid and slow burning powders are for.

Download one of the powder charts which show burn rate of various powders and take that as a guide.

Titegroup even at suggested charges gets the guns very hot let alone at the upper limits or above.

I just pull them.

 

[Electraclyde]

Titegroup is a very fast powder and a narrow usable range. Even tho your guns would probably not sustain and damage, I would pull those bullets. Do 10 or 12 every night for a week and your done.

 

[brucev]

Sit down with a good movie. Pull the bullets. Then, have a nice supper ... Irish Stew and cornbread, etc. Whatever comfort food you most enjoy. That's what I'd do. That's what I did when I screwed up and had to pull down 100 nice looking but inconsistently charged .308 Winchester rounds. Oh well! The stew and cornbread was good! Sincerely. bruce.

 

[MyDads38]

I just looked at the Hodgdon site, 38 +p vs 357 Mag. The 357 load for 158 Gr LSWC had a starting load of TiteGroup @ 4.5 grs @ 19,300 CUP.
IMO, you would be fine shooting those 83 rounds in your 357 revolvers. It's your choice what you do, shoot or pull. I personally would shoot them...

 

[Rule3]

 

[FlyFish]

If all I had was a revolver chambered in .38 Special, I might be hesitant to shoot those loads. In a .357, which is what you have, I'd shoot them without a second thought.

 

[mikld]

As mentioned above TiteGroup is a pretty fast powder and since pressures are not linear, it might go over pressure quickly. Personally, I'd pull them.

For quite a few years I have not gone to max. or near max on most of my loads, not fearful of an OOPS! resulting in a Kaboom, I just don't have a need and there is a built in safety margin...

 

[otisrush]

I can come up with some pretty reasonable logic that supports shooting them. Most notably: Hodgdon's website has this load at its max (i.e. "approved"). I presume anything Hodgdon lists is "Lawyer Load" material - meaning they've probably already applied some sort of safety factor into what they've published. So that's all good. However......

There are two things that would lead me toward pulling them: 1/ Titegroup. I used it early in my loading career. Never had any issues. But I developed enough "respect" for it based on the narrow range I abandon using it based on things I've read about it. 2/ Shooting something at max without working up to it violates the "Start low and work up." adage we all espouse.

I would pull them. If you shoot them and everything is fine (which I very much assume it will) what will be your inkling on how to respond the next time something happens that's "on the edge"? Will it be easier to say "It worked out fine last time. It'll probably be fine this time."? Conversely, if you go through the effort to pull them, I believe it will cement in the brain that there are rules that are never broken - and pulling them will be a more meaningful learning experience. I'm getting kind of WooWoo here...but I believe that these experiences and how we handle them contribute significantly to what we do down the road - both in terms of rigorously following procedures and our response when things don't go as planned.

I like the idea of coupling the de-construction task with comfort food. Once I had about 100 rounds I had to pull. I saved the task for when I was on a camping trip. After dinner, sitting around watching the sunset and enjoying the outdoors, I pulled bullets. That in itself was a very positively memorable experience....to the point that that's what I do now: When I need to pull stuff I throw them into a container and when I go camping I pack the container and my puller.

OR

 

[dave1918a2]

I'd shoot them in the Ruger and not worry. I would however pull one and check and make sure of the load.

 

[KerrdogJ]

Hello everyone and thank you for the advice! I appreciate the many and varied responses!

After reading through all of the replies, I think I will err on the side of caution and just pull the bullets. The work does not bother me, but, if everyone was in agreement that they were safe, then it would not make sense to pull them. Since the replies are roughly 50/50, I'm going to play it safe and do the work.

I have traditionally loaded at about 3.5 grains of powder using Titegroup without issue. This is the first time that I screwed up like this, but it will just be a good learning experience to double-check my setup before resuming work. That's basically what happened - we reloaded the XTPs, went to supper, and then I came back and resumed loading alone but forgot to check the bullet data to make sure that the 4.3 was right for my lead RNFPs. *Facepalm*

Again, many thanks for the welcome to the forums as well as for the advice! I plan to stick around and post a bit here and there as I reload and learn. Have a great day everyone!

 

[38SPL HV]

Pull them.

 

[Sevens]

Using a kinetic puller is definitely not fun whatsoever. 1 round, 83 rounds or 300 rounds — it basically sucks. Each smack of the tool is unenjoyable and when the bullet finally pops free and now you have to dump and pluck a bullet out of a smattering of powder.

It's annoying and taxing.

It's exactly what you should do if the obnoxious task is enough to train your brain that this hobby you've taken up will punish you harshly if you don't give it the due respect.

If your process has you forgetting things of extreme importance, you will be lucky if you only blow up a handgun.

Now I don't believe that is your future in handloading... but if manually pulling 83 rounds drives home the point... then start hammering and don't stop until it's done.

Side note: I'll bet anyone a beer that while you can pick MANY different powders capable of misuse that can wreck your day, there is no better powder on the entire market for blowing up a gun than Titegroup. Yep, I use it in some places also, not saying it shouldn't be used. But you need to learn a process that has checks and balances and prevents mistakes like this one. And Titegroup is the least forgiving powder on the market.

 

[mikld]

Just a couple of thoughts; first, are you going to trust your gun, fingers, or eyes to an anonymous screen name on a forum? It's really easy to just say "shoot 'em" when talking about someone else's guns.I'm sure none would intentionally lead you astray and post dangerous info, but who knows?

I once wanted to pull about 100-120 rounds of old military ammo and was almost overwhelmed at the thought. Then I remembered an old feller my Dad knew who said "There's only one way to eat an elephant, that's one bite at a time.". So, I pulled as many as I felt like at a sitting. One time I pullet 50-55, one time I just pulled 15. Before I knew it all were pulled and I wasn't sore or tired...

A hint when using a hammer type puller; I use a lead ingot or puck for an anvil when using an inertia puller. It is easier on the hand, does not lessen the impact enough to make pulling more difficult, and is much, much quieter than hammering on a bench. I will not hammer anything on concrete and whacking a steel plate, vice or anvil with a plastic mallet just bothers me (lifelong machinist/mechanic made my living for 50+ years using hand tools). I once tried hammering on a log, but, meh? not impressed...

 

[sw dan]

save you a lot of time, just dump them in the pond or river, or red bullet can at the range. be safe...dan

 

[KerrdogJ]

Yeah, I decided to pull them. Like I said, if it was a no-brainer thing that they were safe and I was just ignorant, then that's one thing. Since there's risk though, I'm playing it safe and pulling them.

I've got a kinetic puller, hammer style. I've pulled bad rounds with it before, but they were just one or two at a time. I'm normally very accurate with my work, but this is also the first time I've tried reloading after marriage. Guess I was more distracted than normal.

I said in the OP that I was new to reloading to save time. This is true in the sense that I have not really explored reloading much or played around with bullet recipes and whatnot. However, it would be more accurate to say that I have reloaded for years, but in a very limited and controlled manner and with very few aberrations. This specific kind of issue - overcharging - is new to me, but the process of reloading is not. I always stuck very closely to the recipe sheets that came with my Lee Dies and never experimented or used the Internet for research. Hence, my knowledge is very limited despite reloading for several years. After this incident, I thought I should join a forum and start being more active in a reloading community so that I could start to learn what I probably should have learned years ago.

Back when I was getting started, I took advantage of a bunch of sales and bought in bulk for bullets, primers, and powders. I didn't know about Titegroup's downsides at the time and bought an 8 lb keg of it. I've been working through it slowly over time but still have a lot left. When I finally finish it up, I'm going to look at getting a different type of powder that's more forgiving.

Edit: I appreciate the recommendation about an anvil. I have not tried that before - I always pulled the rounds while beating on my bench. I agree that it is an obnoxious sound.