need data for grandpa's .41 Mag

[gingergiant93]

Background info:
Grandpa's .41 MAG
S&W Model 57
N-FRAME
8 3/8" Barrel
Stainless with Rosewood grips (I believe)

Most of my research has turned up rugers, and marlins and other such .41 magnums, all having little 4-6" barrels. I have been having a hard time finding any load data with a 8 3/8" barrel. I know that barrel length makes a difference in pressures and velocities, hence the continued effort to find quality information..

So I have been doing quite a bit of searching, and researching for a quality load that I can use (safely) in my inheritance. I am looking for a MAGNUM load not a weenie load, I do not have any fancy-pants tools. I have a Lyman D5 scale, powder dippers, a LEE single stage O-Frame press, Lee .41 Mag die set will be here on my birthday. Based on what I have read to this point, 2400 seems to be one of the better Magnum powders? Also I have seen a lot of W110(?) and 296(?) recommendations? I measure every charge one at a time with a scoop and scale (This is a hobby, not a profession. I take time on my work, pride in my body parts)

The just of what I am asking for is this?

What is the difference between the three powders mentioned?
&
What is the pressure and velocity differences from a short (4-6") barrel to a long (8 3/8") barrel? With the three powders mentioned?
& what would you recommend as a starting load?

If you think another powder may give better results (or equal) I would be happy to absorb more information.

Long story short, what would be your PREFERRED .41 MAGNUM Load?

P.s. I like to shoot 210-220gr JHP or plated RN.

Any safe information will be appreciated, snide comments or remarks will not be.

Thank you for your time and thought.

 

[RalphK22]

I can't answer all of your questions , but can share my experience. I have shot and loaded 41 magnums since I was 18 or about 35 years. My go to "magnum" load has always been 19 grains of 2400 under a 210gr. JHP, that used to be .5grs. under max. I think Alliant states 19grs. as max now. This load is extremely accurate in the S&W and Rugers I have shot it in with 6 to 7.5 inch barrel.

Your reloading equipment should work just fine, but may I suggest you invest in a RCBS powder thrower.

 

[427mach1]

The difference between powders is generally burn rate. Slower pistol powders are generally used for hotter loads while faster powders are used for lighter loads. My go-to powder for magnum loads is H110 or W296; they are the same powder, just labeled differently. You mention plated bullets - they don't mix well with magnum loads. They are only good to around 1200 fps and then the jackets start coming off. This will occur below the starting load level of H110/W296. Stick with jacketed bullets or a hardcast lead for "non-weenie" loads.

Maximum pressure will not change much with barrel length but velocity will. You might see 100 - 150 fps difference between a 6 and 8 inch barrel.

I would suggest using a reloading manual(s) for load data. You might not find your exact combination of barrel length, revolver brand, etc. but they will give you a starting point. Start with the minimum recommended load, keeping in mind that H110/W296 doesn't like to be loaded less than about 10% below max. Work up slowly with your charges and look for the most accurate combination by shooting groups from a good bench rest.

 

[lebomm]

I've used all 3 of your mentioned powders in different ctgs, and 2400 remains my favorite for hi-performance loads. It's flexible, easy to ignite w/std primers, and meters nearly as smoothly as the ball powders. When you decide to throttle back some for all-day range sessions (and I'm betting you will), Unique will serve from mid-range to +P levels, overlapping with lower-end 2400 performance. That's what I've found, YMMV.

Larry

 

[series guy]

BTW your Model 57 will be a nickel finish not stainless. Most stainless S&Ws have a model number that begins with 6. As stated while full house magnum loads are fun a nice mild "cowboy" or target load will be easier on your gun and body.

 

[gingergiant93]

BTW your Model 57 will be a nickel finish not stainless. Most stainless S&Ws have a model number that begins with 6. As stated while full house magnum loads are fun a nice mild "cowboy" or target load will be easier on your gun and body.

My Model# is N4183XX... I am not positive that I know all there is to know about my .41

It was handed down from my grandfather about 10 years ago, Mom has had it till about 6 months ago for safe keeping. I have shot it a few times and professionally cleaned every time it gets put away. From what I was told, this was my grandpas sidearm in Vietnam? Those stories may be exaggerated, though I have no way to tell...

 

[gingergiant93]

You mention plated bullets - they don't mix well with magnum loads. They are only good to around 1200 fps and then the jackets start coming off. Stick with jacketed bullets or a hardcast lead for "non-weenie" loads.
.

The plated would be strictly for plinking, JHP would be the MAGNUMS which I plan to use (some day) for hunting.

 

[gingergiant93]

I can't answer all of your questions , but can share my experience. I have shot and loaded 41 magnums since I was 18 or about 35 years. My go to "magnum" load has always been 19 grains of 2400 under a 210gr. JHP, that used to be .5grs. under max. I think Alliant states 19grs. as max now. This load is extremely accurate in the S&W and Rugers I have shot it in with 6 to 7.5 inch barrel.

Your reloading equipment should work just fine, but may I suggest you invest in a RCBS powder thrower.

This load sounds about on-par with the research I have been finding as the "better" load for the .41 mag.

Also, what is a powder thrower? Is that the powder measuring doo-hickey? Cause yea one of those would be nice to have.

 

[gingergiant93]

When you decide to throttle back some for all-day range sessions (and I'm betting you will)

Larry

Oh yes!! Yes, yes, yes.. That will definitely be happening, but as Series Guy stated "Easier on the gun and body"

 

[gingergiant93]

210gr. JHP, .

Which brand of Bullet is a preferable choice?
I have heard Hornady XTP are good, also Rainier?
I don't care too much about cost, I want what is good.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

My Model# is N4183XX... I am not positive that I know all there is to know about my .41

It was handed down from my grandfather about 10 years ago, Mom has had it till about 6 months ago for safe keeping. I have shot it a few times and professionally cleaned every time it gets put away. From what I was told, this was my grandpas sidearm in Vietnam? Those stories may be exaggerated, though I have no way to tell...

If your grandfather had it in Nam,it is not a stainless but a model 57 nickel plated.
I own a Ruger in .41Mag 5 1/2 bbl but one of my friends has one in 8 3/8 stainless(model 657)and we both shoot 220gr bullets.Him jacketed and me cast.We both use the same load of 19.8gr H110/W296.
Of,course,even though it is a little below max,work up to it following your reloading manuals(hope you have at least 2)carefully.
The barrel lenght doesn't change the pressure level as the max pressure is just as the bullet starts its trip out of the brass.So the max pressure is contained within the cylinder.
Have fun and play safe;that's an excellent gun you have there.Only wish it could speak to tell you what it went through over there with your grandfather.
Qc

 

[glenwolde]

I don't think he carried it in 'nam. It looks like it's post-1975 from the serial number. Plus it's kind of big to be hauling around the bush....

 

[MJFlores]

First I'd like to say congrats to you in keeping a nice ole family S&W living on. I'd check Hodgdon's site for loads based on HP-38. It's fantastic in .357 and .44 so I'd think there is load data for .41.

 

[RalphK22]

This load sounds about on-par with the research I have been finding as the "better" load for the .41 mag.

Also, what is a powder thrower? Is that the powder measuring doo-hickey? Cause yea one of those would be nice to have.

Yeah, the RCBS Uniflow powder measure, I think you will find it more convenient than scoops and faster. I like the RCBS uniflow, I have other brands, but seem to gravitate back to the RCBS. It works well for me and is very consistent once set, maybe it is because it is what I am used to. If you are loading mostly handgun cartridges. try to find one with the "small" drum, however I used a "large" drum type for many years and it worked fine too.

I use Seirra and Nosler 210gr JHP. These are what I started loading with years ago and I still have several boxes on hand. I don't know if Nosler still makes a 210gr JHP. I like the Hornady XTP and use them in .357 ..44, and .45 but don't think I every used them in my .41s due to having Sierras and Noslers in supply. I think I may have tried the XTPs once with a W296 load but didn't like it as much as my 2400 loads for some forgotten reason.

I have been shooting a lot of 215gr. SWCs over 7.5 to 8grs. of Unique for range loads lately and like them a lot.

 

[dannyabear]

I don't think he would have found ammo in Nam; I have personally shot apart 2 model 57s; the top strap is the weak link in older model 57s or29s. I would not use a steady diet of magnum loads..

 

[m657]

I've enjoyed 41 mag in every barrel length available over the years except 8 3/8". That's been missing only because I never came across one I could afford, or pry out of the hands the another happy shooter.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

The plated would be strictly for plinking, JHP would be the MAGNUMS which I plan to use (some day) for hunting.

I'll vote for using 2400 also. It'll give you good magnum loads with the 210gr JHPs (19.0grs) but has the latitude to be downloaded to mid-level power (16.0gr) loads for the 210gr plated bullets, all with regular primers.

In the event you're looking for deep penetration these hard cast Rim Rock 230gr (BHN-20) & 240gr (BHN-15) bullets would fill the bill.

.

Rim Rock bullets

.

 

[cowboy4evr]

" Don't shoot a steady diet of magnum loads " ? If he is referring to some of the " over pressure " loads of yesteryear , then I agree . Using modern load data , no problem --- shoot all your hand can stand . For magnum powders , I really like Accurate #9 or it's bigger brother Accurate 4100 ( Ramshot Enforcer is the same ) better than Alliant 2400 or W296/ H110 . And then there's IMR 4227 , it's a single base powder , easier on the gun and on your hand . It's what I consider the slowest burn rate of magnum pistol powders . What you loose in velocity , it sure seems to make up for in accuracy . It definitely performs much better using a " Full " magnum primer , CCI 350 . Not the Winchester primer that is " sort of " in between std and full magnum .
For a bullet I only shoot cast , mostly the 220 gr Keith bullet #258 from H&G that I cast myself . I have 4 , 41's . 3 Smiths and 1 Ruger so I guess I like the 41 magnum .

 

[silentflyer]

20 grains of H110/296 works well with JSP or JHP in mine.

 

[BruceM]

I have personally shot apart 2 model 57s; the top strap is the weak link in older model 57s or29s

It was your ammo, not the guns-especially if two were "destroyed".

Try this:

R-P case
Winchester LPP
Lyman #410459 or H&G #258 220 grain SWC
21.7 grains H110

Very near maximum load in my guns. Extremely powerful and accurate.

Bruce

 

[mthunter65]

Looking at my 1972 Vol. ll Hornady Reloading Manual I have some sweet loads I used to make for my 41 Mag.

With a Hornady 210 gr HP bullet , Powders 630 and 2400 give the hottest loads email me and I can set you up.

 

[scooter123]

Am I the only one who feels old reading this post. Granpa's 41 Mag, sheesh, my Grandpa was born in 1894. He would have been interested in an older 44HD or 1911, for the 41 Magnum that would have been my Fathers interest.

Concerning long barrels and pressure, IMO you won't find any significant rise in pressure with barrels lengths past about 2-3 inches. However you will see a rise in Velocity. I'm a 357 Magnum shooter and a load that clocks at 1200 fps from my 6 inch Dan Wesson will clock 1615 fps out of my 20 inch 1892 Winchester. BTW, that's a 158 grain XTP with 14.8 grains of H110 and I just love H110 for rifle loads but not so much for handgun loads due to the muzzle blast, especially out of 2 1/2 and 4 inch barrels. For most of my Handgun Magnums I prefer Accurate #9. While I haven't ever tried 2400 everything I've read indicates it's very similar to Accurate #9 in terms of performance in Handgun Magnum loads, so it is worth looking for. Note, if you don't mind some extra muzzle blast that 8 3/8 inch barrel on your model 57 will likely do quite well with H110 and if you want to try it I suggest you consult the Hornady Manual. Because while Hornady's approach is a bit conservative in terms of charge amounts I have found some of my most accurate loads using the Hornady Data. I will also note that Hornady makes very accurate bullets, I've managed to get under an inch out of my 1892 with the assistance of a spotter/coach. Yeah, I'll take advantage of a bit of free coaching when it's offered.

 

[shocker]

Am I the only one who feels old reading this post. Granpa's 41 Mag, sheesh, my Grandpa was born in 1894.

I've got you beat, 1889 and 1893. Most likely they would have been handed Mosins if not for making a wiser choice, emigrating.

Two on topic comments - Accurate #9 is basically a ball powder version of 2400- extremely friendly to powder measures.

Older Hornady manuals, I have one from the 1970's - way they decided what was a maximum load was by measuring case head expansion. Some loads are head scratchers - how about 550 lbs of muzzle energy from a short barrel SAA 45 Colt? Would strongly suggest using SAAMI compliant loads from a modern reloading manual especially in an older Smith.

 

[m657]

My own drive for ever-heavier loads was long ago replaced with discovery more moderate recipes produced more accuracy and more enjoyment for plinking.

Given while I ~wanted~ to hunt with 41 mag, never actually have done such. Should I mount the field with that intent anytime soon, I would be looking for the stouter loads noted above.

As is with moderate cast lead loads, current 41 Mag Mountain Gun is the most accurate M57 I've ever owned.

 

[gwpercle]

After my youthful bout with Magnumitis , and developing a nice flinch , I came to my senses and starting loading 7.5 grains of Unique under a cast 215 gr, SWC bullet.
Since you wanted a magnum load , my favorite was a Speer 210 grain JHP and 19.0 of 2400 which is right at 1500 fps in a 10 inch Contender barrel and is as hot as I care to load them.
Gee , do I ever feel old....I well remember the day the 41 magnum came out...it doesn't seem THAT long ago ! What do they say about time flying when you're enjoying yourself .
Have fun,
Gary.

 

[dannyabear]

I owned a gun shop in the 70s when M29 sold retail for around $185.00; of course that was right before Dirty Harry made them unobtainable

 

[Wee Hooker]

Just a word of caution. I've seen a few blown up 41 (and 44) mags over time as a result of folks trying to develop a tamer load using less of the same "already on hand" slow burning powder they used for full power loads. That's generally bad JUJU.
If you decide you want a lighter load, assure you are working form good load data and also be sure to match your powder burn rate /selection to the task at hand.

 

[BruceM]

Powders 630

While I've never been one to consider data in old(er) manuals obsolete, just where did this data come from? Winchester 630 had been out of production for 30 years.

I've seen a few blown up 41 (and 44) mags over time as a result of folks trying to develop a tamer load using less of the same "already on hand" slow burning powder they used for full power loads.

This is very interesting in view of the fact that this phenomenon has never, ever been duplicated under laboratory conditions in small arms-especially pistol rounds. Would you care to share the offending loads with us please?

Bruce

 

[BornToLooze]

My own drive for ever-heavier loads was long ago replaced with discovery more moderate recipes produced more accuracy and more enjoyment for plinking.

Given while I ~wanted~ to hunt with 41 mag, never actually have done such. Should I mount the field with that intent anytime soon, I would be looking for the stouter loads noted above.

As is with moderate cast lead loads, current 41 Mag Mountain Gun is the most accurate M57 I've ever owned.

Federal 210 gr JHPs work pretty good.

 

[gwpercle]

I owned a gun shop in the 70s when M29 sold retail for around $185.00; of course that was right before Dirty Harry made them unobtainable

Becasue of "Dirty Harry" I was able to buy a 1970 Ruger Blackhawk 357 in 1971 for $75.00. The dealer said he couldn't give away a single action 357 at that time , the DA 44 magnum was THE hot seller. The tag just said SALE with no price, I had $75.00 cash money and he took it, said he was tired of looking at it !
I have always wondered if the dealer broke even on that deal, I had no idea of what dealers prices were
I still have and shoot it .
Gary