Need help. Big problem with my 610-3

[AKMac]

Hey guys. I have a big problem with my new old stock 610-3.
My first shots revealed something interesting. My load was as follows:

Case: New Starline
Bullet: Hornady 200gr XTP
Powder: Bluedot
Charge: 9.3
OAL: 1.260"

I was using rimz moonclips. After firing I couldn't eject the spent cases. After tapping on the ejector rod, I was finally able to extract the cases. These loads didn't feel like they recoiled any worse than my 686 which I shot side by side. In fact, the recoil felt exactly the same.

Thinking that perhaps these were too hot (even though Hornady's own manual says 9.4gr of bluedot is max and hornady is typically conservative) I decided to lower the charge to 8.5gr of bluedot and use a MBC 200gr "steeler". I left the OAL at 1.260" since this is the max OAL for any 10mm cartridge.

Well I just came back with the results and I'm quite puzzled.

I fired one moon clip full of 10mm, and once again I could not get it to extract by hand. Next I fired a cylinder full without a moon clip. Every single case fell out except one. Once I got home and tapped out the brass I noticed that the case had ruptured.

Now I'm not exactly new to reloading, but I admit I'm not beyond making a mistake, so I pulled one of the bullets. Within 4 taps, the bullet released and as expected, 8.5gr fell out (well the scale shows 8.1, but a small amount of the powder didn't make it to the pan.)

Also, something else is odd about this revolver. All of my other smiths have a very smooth chamber, almost polished looking. This revolver does not have that. It has what appears to be a cross hatch pattern in the chamber. Almost like the last step of polishing was left out. I'm not sure if this is considered normal for 610's or not. However my 686, 629, 500 and model 60 all have polished chambers. Below you can see the cross hatches I'm talking about in the top chamber.

Now if you look at this brass closely, you will notice that you can see those same cross hatch marks on the brass. Once again, I've never seen this before.

Finally, something else that is odd about this revolver. If I take a piece of spent brass, it will freely fit into each chamber except one! Here is a video of that:

S&W 610 issue - YouTube

So considering all that, what the **** is going on!
Did I get a batch of bad brass from starline?
Are my chambers cut wrong or are unfinished?
Did I make a stupid reloading error and overpressure the brass?

Also here is a dimensional drawing of the cases before and after firing.

Thanks for any help.

 

[smithman]

If the brass is not the problem, it looks like buggered and maybe oversize chamber issues.

 

[PH-2]

'Mac,

I think smithman has a good explanation. You might try some quality factory rounds before commencing to chew-butt with the boys in Springfield.

Mike

 

[AKsRule]

Hey guys. I have a big problem with my new old stock 610-3.
Also, something else is odd about this revolver. All of my other smiths have a very smooth chamber, almost polished looking. This revolver does not have that. It has what appears to be a cross hatch pattern in the chamber. Almost like the last step of polishing was left out. I'm not sure if this is considered normal for 610's or not. However my 686, 629, 500 and model 60 all have polished chambers. Below you can see the cross hatches I'm talking about in the top chamber.

Now if you look at this brass closely, you will notice that you can see those same cross hatch marks on the brass. Once again, I've never seen this before.

Finally, something else that is odd about this revolver. If I take a piece of spent brass, it will freely fit into each chamber except one! Here is a video of that:

S&W 610 issue - YouTube

So considering all that, what the **** is going on!
Did I get a batch of bad brass from starline?
Are my chambers cut wrong or are unfinished?
Did I make a stupid reloading error and overpressure the brass?

You have ONE chamber that was not final finished and is actually
UNDERSIZE.

S&W can fix this easily - just make sure you explain it fully so they
don't blame it on something you did.

Not sure if warranty will cover you so ASK.

 

[JeffR]

Mine did exactly the same thing. Low to mid range loads would leave cross hatch on the brass. High end loads (800x and AA#9) would either stick on ejection or separate at the case head. This was with brand new Starline brass using Hornady 180 gr XTP bullets and Hornady load data.

I started having issues at 9.5 gr 800x and around 13gr AA #9 - neither one is a top load, but they're getting close.

My fix was to take a 12 gauge bore mop, soak in Flitz, chuck it up in a drill and run it into each chamber. Took me about 10-15 minutes and a couple bore mops but when I was done, the chambers were much smoother. Low and mid-range loads no longer marked the brass up and high end 800x and AA#9 loads didn't destroy my brass.

ETA - failed to read all the way through the OP. If a chamber is out of spec then my DIY fix isn't going to work. Probably best to send it back to S&W.

 

[m4bgringo]

All 6 of mine look identical and smooth as silk, mine is a 610-2.

 

[Nightowl]

If it was mine, I would send it back to Smith. I am sure they will correct the problems to your satisfaction. I had a 627-2 with a .01 oversize throat on one chamber. They replaced the cylinder. To me it is easier to send it back than to fool with it myself and if I cannot fix it, and have to send it back, then they will rightfully believe that I was at fault and charge me to correct the problem.

 

[growr]

I agree with the consensus of sending it to S&W and let them Dx your problem. They have all of the resources to take care of it where you and I don't.
Randy

 

[Sportsterguy]

I'd definately send it back before atempting any home gunshop repairs to it. Chambers look very poorly polished up. I've never seen a S&W with chambers that look that bad. Even see a tooling mark on the back of the cylinder. Sloppy work IMO and sure S&W will fix it. Thats a big buck revolver and for what you pad for it that baby needs some finishing work done to it. Can't believe it made its way past the quality control department. JMHO.

 

[s&wchad]

Warranty Repair Shipping Form - Smith & Wesson

 

[steamloco76]

A bit of advice on contacting any company for warranty work that has proven its worth.

Email the company with a full description of the problem. Note in the email that you are also FAXING the same thing to the customer service department, then fax the letter. More than likely two different people will see your request for service and it can't be easily ignored. Skip the phone call unless it is a last resort. This has worked form me with S&W, Ruger and Taurus, with only Taurus requiring a phone call (to get free shipping!).Good luck.

 

[AKMac]

Thanks guys. I forgot to mention that the tight chamber was also the one to cause the ruptured case. But, I suppose it doesn't matter. You all confirmed what I was thinking, it's escaped the QC at S&W. I just hope S&W will fix the pistol to be shoot-able as I paid a fair amount of money for it.

If anyone is curious, I tried to get a better pic of the chambers.

 

[Nightowl]

You sure get an A in the photography department. It shows quite a bit of roughness in the chambers that should not be there. Send it home.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

As a 610 (no dash) owner, I can say that is really rough.

Print your picture, note it up and send it back to Smith. They will fix you up right.

 

[AKMac]

I just thought I would update this thread with the outcome.

I sent the 610 back and promptly received it back in almost exactly 3 weeks. I sent back a very detailed report of what was going on with the pistol, and how I thought it needed to be fixed.

It came back with a note saying that the cylinder was defective and had been replaced under warranty. Kudos to S&W on that one as I was prepared to pay. It was also very obvious that the pistol had been test fired on all chambers once or twice.

The insides of the chambers look very different from the last one. These chambers have what appears to be a lip for the brass to head-space from and then a forcing cone much like a shotgun barrel looks like (i'm not sure of the correct terminology.) Some slight cross hatching was also present on this cylinder but nothing like the old one. It appears that someone took the time to polish all the chambers.

I took a long break from work and went out to test the pistol. The pistol fires like a dream. I shot about 50 rounds and didn't experience any sticky extraction or ruptured cases. In fact, all the brass is now lacking the cross hatch marks embedded into it like they had with the last cylinder. I also tried the revolver without RIMZ moon clips and all the brass extracted with just my fingernails.

All in all, I'm very happy with S&W customer service. I know every company makes a mistake now and then, but how they deal with it is the true mark of the company.

Here was my best grouping of my impromptu shooting session using my truck bed as a rest. 4 shots at about 2 inches at 50-60ft.

 

[Sportsterguy]

Glad they did you right and have you up and running! Shouldn't have happened the 1st time if it went through QA IMO. Time to shoot the snot out of that baby.

 

[bigmoose]

Glad it turned out well. Thanks for the update.

 

[CWH44300]

Good for you - great costumer service - I wouldn't except less