Need New HVAC, The Fun Begins!

[milton6x]

be aware

I had a top end Carrier AC , furnace , air cleaner , thermostat installed two years ago with a factory ten year parts and labor warranty . $11,000 .This unit requires a $125 air cleaner every six months . Last fall the thermostat announced there was a malfunction in fan motor . Called the installing dealer and the tech announced it needed a $650 fan control that he just happened to have one on the truck . The fan was covered , but he wanted to bill me $85 because we had not had an annual tune up . I said OK , "but I will be contacting the Carrier Factory about this extortion". Tech then called his boss and announced the charge is dropped for good customer relations .
I contacted Carrier and was told the Factory approves of this criminal activity and dealer can refuse warranty claims if annual inspections are not done . My previous Carrier ran for 26 years with $2.00 filters and no annual service . Keep this in mind when choosing a brand , model and dealer . I welcome any comments .

 

[tlawler]

I dealt with Trane industrial for many years with their chillers, never liked their service, everything was proprietary and a secret. Once the new chillers (2) were installed it took them about 5 years to get them running properly. We had three old smaller Carrier units that could run circles around those Tranes.

What type of chillers did you have? Screw, scroll, or centrifugal? Trane's screw and centrifugal are good machines, scrolls so-so, but nobody's scrolls are that good. They are the budget line. I like their centrifugals because of the low speed multistage design. A Trane 3 stage CVHE is made the same way it was 35 years ago, just a really solid piece of machinery. Theyve gained efficiency through minor engineering changes and computer control, but with all that stripped away you couldn't tell a 1983 machine from a 2018 one. York and McQuay are more innovative with a lot more variable speed drive and magnetic levitation bearings.
When you get down to the scrolls, nobody uses their own compressors. You see brands like Danfoss(Carrier), Copeland and Bitzer(York/JCI), and Alliance(Trane). Copeland has the best track record of all of them. The Alliance in the Trane is a descendant of the old Climatuff made by GE when Trane bought out the GE residential line. You may remember the Trane "snowball" compressor TV commercial where they had it on the teststand running for something like 32 years straight in a block of ice. The old piston climatuffs were great compressors.
As far as residential, I like the Lennox stuff. Pricey, but well made and sturdy. You really can't go wrong with one of the big 3...Lennox, Trane, and York, and to a lesser extent, Carrier. And installation makes it or breaks it. A properly installed Rheem will perform much better than a poorly installed Lennox.

 

[loknload]

tlawler,

What type of chillers did you have? Screw, scroll, or centrifugal? Trane's screw and centrifugal are good machines, scrolls so-so, but nobody's scrolls are that good. They are the budget line. I like their centrifugals because of the low speed multistage design. A Trane 3 stage CVHE is made the same way it was 35 years ago, just a really solid piece of machinery.

We had all centrifugal machines, can't remember the tonnages on them anymore but we had Carriers that would run circles around them. Trane blamed it on the fact that they were made for another plant and we inherited them. Engineering made the appropriate changes to accommodate them and it still took a long time to get them straightened out.

As for my residential decision it's going to be a tough one but I'm looking at all aspects.

 

[tlawler]

tlawler,

We had all centrifugal machines, can't remember the tonnages on them anymore but we had Carriers that would run circles around them. Trane blamed it on the fact that they were made for another plant and we inherited them. Engineering made the appropriate changes to accommodate them and it still took a long time to get them straightened out.

They can be pretty design specific, like if you have a standard 45 degree machine and you're using it for low temp to make ice or process cool. The impellers are cut differently and the anti-surge software is enhanced. Impellers can be cut, but it's expensive because the whole machine has to come apart. I love working on the low pressure low speed Trane centrifugals. They can be so quiet that the ancillary equipment like pumps will be louder than the chiller itself. What Carrier equipment did you have? 19DK centrifugals? The low pressure Carriers are solid machines too. I have one that is over 30 years old and still runs like a champ. The Carriers, York's, and McQuay's all use a small single stage impeller that is geared up to anywhere from 8K to 15K RPM, depending on the manufacturer. Smaller footprint than the Tranes, but real screamers of machines in the older vintages. The newer stuff with variable speed drives and maglev bearings is a lot quieter...and it's really nice to not have to deal with all that oil. Some of the larger tonnage machines can hold up to 15-20 gallons of oil. I've spent a whole day cleaning up after an oil line has let loose and it's a gawd awful mess, let me tell you!

 

[loknload]

It's been to many since I'm away from them to remember specs. We never made ice with them though.
When I worked at the University we he two chiller plants that would make ice. We'd switch over at midnight to do that. Come the hottest part of the day we'd divert the chilled water flow through the ice. Their I was a control room supervisor, very seldom got to the chiller plants.
I just don't remember all their specifics, I guess I'm getting old?