Need New HVAC, The Fun Begins!

[Jessie]

A lot needs to be said about installation and service. Hopefully you won't need the latter, but if you do it's worth money when they respond quick and correctly.
And when they show up to install and lay the plastic runners and put the booties on to protect carpets and stairs....I like that.

 

[loknload]

The one Lennox quoted runners and booties on the install!

 

[LVSteve]

I dread this at my current house. IIRC the new A/C systems use a refrigerant (R-410a) that runs at a higher pressure than old R-22. This means at a minimum the evaporator would also have to be pulled, and who knows if that is doable on an old airhandler/furnace.

Then the installer would have to contend with the imaginative placement of the furnace/air handlers in my home. This is Vegas, so don't even think about there being a basement. One is in a cramped attic and the other is in a void on the side of the house accessible via a small door 12-14' up a wall.

 

[Triathloncoach]

I got two estimates for a new furnace last Summer. Went with Lowes and I have been very satisfied

 

[loknload]

Well the search for new HVAC equipment continues!
Really taking my time to research equipment and installers. So far I have quotes from Bryant (1) , Lennox (2), Trane (1) and will be getting quote from a local Carrier dealer.
Right now I'm leaning towards the Trane system. Seems I'm getting good equipment, good install and the price is in between the two Lennox quotes.
I like the Lennox systems but I'm concerned that at times their replacement parts can be hard to get since they are a proprietary company and local supply companies don't ha due their parts.
Right now it's atough choice since I do like the Lennox equip, but now I'm going to see what Carrier has to say!

 

[LVSteve]

Well the search for new HVAC equipment continues!
Really taking my time to research equipment and installers. So far I have quotes from Bryant (1) , Lennox (2), Trane (1) and will be getting quote from a local Carrier dealer.
Right now I'm leaning towards the Trane system. Seems I'm getting good equipment, good install and the price is in between the two Lennox quotes.
I like the Lennox systems but I'm concerned that at times their replacement parts can be hard to get since they are a proprietary company and local supply companies don't ha due their parts.
Right now it's atough choice since I do like the Lennox equip, but now I'm going to see what Carrier has to say!

Got mine fitted yesterday, just in time for two days of temps in the 60s....in Vegas.

HVAC sticker shock UPDATE: New system fitted

 

[loknload]

Mine is still operating as far as I know? Expecting temps already in the 90's starting tomorrow!
Compressor was not sounding good last year!

 

[tlawler]

If it were up to me, I would have a ductless multizone VRF system installed. I'd rip all the ductwork out of the attic, insulate it, and turn it into another room. Yep, there's that much space up there, but the shoddily installed ductwork snakes all over the place and takes it all up. With a VRF system, some of them approach 25 SEER. But what do I know...I'm just a chiller mechanic.

 

[mtgianni]

Right now I have two quotes from Lennox dealers, One is a little higher than the other. Both are quoting 90,000 BTU two stage gas furnace and 2 1/2 ton AC.
The third is from a Bryant dealer which is already what I have. His quote is the lowest but the equipment is not the same equivalent.
The Goodman line is new to the area being installed by a Plumbing outfit, I may give them a look see.
I dealt with Trane industrial for many years with their chillers, never liked their service, everything was proprietary and a secret. Once the new chillers (2) were installed it took them about 5 years to get them running properly. We had three old smaller Carrier units that could run circles around those Tranes.
I'm only getting a price from them because I know a guy that work for them and I just want to remind my self why I don't like them, guaranteed they will be the most expensive!
Right now I'm leaning towards the Lennox systems and I like both companies who are installing them.

If you thought Trane was proprietary Lennox beats them in spades. Both are known for only us and only through our dealers.

 

[LVSteve]

If you thought Trane was proprietary Lennox beats them in spades. Both are known for only us and only through our dealers.

Yep, the guys at work warned me off Lennox within 10 minutes of me announcing I needed a new system.

I read that Trane got themselves a bit of a black eye over behavior towards warranty claims. That was a year or two ago.

Reading reviews of the different makes was even more confusing than reading car reviews. The customer 1 star reviews were legion on just about every make, but reading between the lines suggested install issues with quite a few of them.

 

[milton6x]

be aware

I had a top end Carrier AC , furnace , air cleaner , thermostat installed two years ago with a factory ten year parts and labor warranty . $11,000 .This unit requires a $125 air cleaner every six months . Last fall the thermostat announced there was a malfunction in fan motor . Called the installing dealer and the tech announced it needed a $650 fan control that he just happened to have one on the truck . The fan was covered , but he wanted to bill me $85 because we had not had an annual tune up . I said OK , "but I will be contacting the Carrier Factory about this extortion". Tech then called his boss and announced the charge is dropped for good customer relations .
I contacted Carrier and was told the Factory approves of this criminal activity and dealer can refuse warranty claims if annual inspections are not done . My previous Carrier ran for 26 years with $2.00 filters and no annual service . Keep this in mind when choosing a brand , model and dealer . I welcome any comments .

 

[tlawler]

I dealt with Trane industrial for many years with their chillers, never liked their service, everything was proprietary and a secret. Once the new chillers (2) were installed it took them about 5 years to get them running properly. We had three old smaller Carrier units that could run circles around those Tranes.

What type of chillers did you have? Screw, scroll, or centrifugal? Trane's screw and centrifugal are good machines, scrolls so-so, but nobody's scrolls are that good. They are the budget line. I like their centrifugals because of the low speed multistage design. A Trane 3 stage CVHE is made the same way it was 35 years ago, just a really solid piece of machinery. Theyve gained efficiency through minor engineering changes and computer control, but with all that stripped away you couldn't tell a 1983 machine from a 2018 one. York and McQuay are more innovative with a lot more variable speed drive and magnetic levitation bearings.
When you get down to the scrolls, nobody uses their own compressors. You see brands like Danfoss(Carrier), Copeland and Bitzer(York/JCI), and Alliance(Trane). Copeland has the best track record of all of them. The Alliance in the Trane is a descendant of the old Climatuff made by GE when Trane bought out the GE residential line. You may remember the Trane "snowball" compressor TV commercial where they had it on the teststand running for something like 32 years straight in a block of ice. The old piston climatuffs were great compressors.
As far as residential, I like the Lennox stuff. Pricey, but well made and sturdy. You really can't go wrong with one of the big 3...Lennox, Trane, and York, and to a lesser extent, Carrier. And installation makes it or breaks it. A properly installed Rheem will perform much better than a poorly installed Lennox.

 

[loknload]

tlawler,

What type of chillers did you have? Screw, scroll, or centrifugal? Trane's screw and centrifugal are good machines, scrolls so-so, but nobody's scrolls are that good. They are the budget line. I like their centrifugals because of the low speed multistage design. A Trane 3 stage CVHE is made the same way it was 35 years ago, just a really solid piece of machinery.

We had all centrifugal machines, can't remember the tonnages on them anymore but we had Carriers that would run circles around them. Trane blamed it on the fact that they were made for another plant and we inherited them. Engineering made the appropriate changes to accommodate them and it still took a long time to get them straightened out.

As for my residential decision it's going to be a tough one but I'm looking at all aspects.

 

[tlawler]

tlawler,

We had all centrifugal machines, can't remember the tonnages on them anymore but we had Carriers that would run circles around them. Trane blamed it on the fact that they were made for another plant and we inherited them. Engineering made the appropriate changes to accommodate them and it still took a long time to get them straightened out.

They can be pretty design specific, like if you have a standard 45 degree machine and you're using it for low temp to make ice or process cool. The impellers are cut differently and the anti-surge software is enhanced. Impellers can be cut, but it's expensive because the whole machine has to come apart. I love working on the low pressure low speed Trane centrifugals. They can be so quiet that the ancillary equipment like pumps will be louder than the chiller itself. What Carrier equipment did you have? 19DK centrifugals? The low pressure Carriers are solid machines too. I have one that is over 30 years old and still runs like a champ. The Carriers, York's, and McQuay's all use a small single stage impeller that is geared up to anywhere from 8K to 15K RPM, depending on the manufacturer. Smaller footprint than the Tranes, but real screamers of machines in the older vintages. The newer stuff with variable speed drives and maglev bearings is a lot quieter...and it's really nice to not have to deal with all that oil. Some of the larger tonnage machines can hold up to 15-20 gallons of oil. I've spent a whole day cleaning up after an oil line has let loose and it's a gawd awful mess, let me tell you!

 

[loknload]

It's been to many since I'm away from them to remember specs. We never made ice with them though.
When I worked at the University we he two chiller plants that would make ice. We'd switch over at midnight to do that. Come the hottest part of the day we'd divert the chilled water flow through the ice. Their I was a control room supervisor, very seldom got to the chiller plants.
I just don't remember all their specifics, I guess I'm getting old?