Need some expert advice on fail to feed issue.

[RalphMP9FS]

I have a new (7-14) M&P 9FS (mfg date 9-2013), and on my last range visit I had two nose up failure to completely feed 1st rounders and 1 during firing. I shot 200 rounds and was using new Federal Champion 115 round nose bullets. So far, I ran 400 rounds total through it since new.

Today I decided to dry cycle a full mag to see what happens. I cleaned the gun very well and lightly oiled before doing this. I had one nose up fail to feed at ~14 rounds. I reloaded the mag with the same bullets and did this again and had two this time. Two of the jams went into battery by hitting the back of the slide, but one did not and had to eject that round. The fourth time I reloaded the mag (same bullets) I had four fail to feeds.

Each jammed brass casing had a little nick in the leading shoulder on the edge, and I think that is where the jamming starts.

Before you guys start yelling at me, I'm fully aware about bullet setback from cycling live rounds several times. I have those 17 rounds is a separate bag and will give them to the range monitor on my next visit. Some of the rounds got setback a good 1/16".

Anyway, I'm a bit concerned about this issue and wonder what is an acceptable fail to feed percentage. I have a new Taurus G2 Millenium 9mm, and I cycled a full 12 round mag through it, and it dry cycled them so much smoother than my M&P does.

Here's a pic of what the jam looks like (an XD not my M&P)

 

[OKFC05]

Have you cleaned the magazines?
Disassemble, clean, and wipe dry before reassembling. I use CRC spray silicone as a cleaner; leaves the magazines very slick.

P.S. If you handfeed the cartridges, pull the slide all the way back and turn it loose; don't ride it.

 

[RalphMP9FS]

Have you cleaned the magazines?
Disassemble, clean, and wipe dry before reassembling. I use CRC spray silicone as a cleaner; leaves the magazines very slick.

P.S. If you handfeed the cartridges, pull the slide all the way back and turn it loose; don't ride it.

I slingshot the slide. I did not disassemble and clean the mags since they are still new, but I do understand it's a slight possibility. I did check the mags for burrs prior to this.

 

[RalphMP9FS]

Here's a picture of the bullet setback after cycling 4 times. The shortest bullets were repeat jammers. A new round for comparison is on the far left.

 

[Ksimons]

Not being a 9mm guy I have to ask. Are all 9's RN? Try a different bullet, not all auto loader work well with all rounds. I have a FS and a Shield in .40 and run RNFP and never had an issue. Like I said not a 9 guy so not sure if they are all running RN.

 

[RalphMP9FS]

Round nose are the easiest to feed.

 

[OKFC05]

I did not disassemble and clean the mags since they are still new

That's where we differ; I disassemble, clean and inspect all parts of every magazine before I use it. Sometimes I find a problem.
Are you marking the magazine when the malfunction occurs? Does it happen with just one mag or..?
Points to check on the gun are the extractor, slide face, ramp, cone into chamber. Is the chamber clean and dry?

I cannot remember the last time I had a fail to feed on my M&Ps. I have seen them on other new guns with problems.

 

[RalphMP9FS]

Before the cycling, I checked everything you mentioned except dismantling the mags. I think the leading edge of the brass casing is getting caught on something on the feed ramp or just after it. So far, it was from two of my four factory mags.

That's where we differ; I disassemble, clean and inspect all parts of every magazine before I use it. Sometimes I find a problem.
Are you marking the magazine when the malfunction occurs? Does it happen with just one mag or..?
Points to check on the gun are the extractor, slide face, ramp, cone into chamber. Is the chamber clean and dry?

I cannot remember the last time I had a fail to feed on my M&Ps. I have seen them on other new guns with problems.

 

[hobby-gunsmith]

failure to feed

Most of the failure to feed are attributed to either magazine or extractor. Completely disassemble the mag and clean it but do not use any solvent. You can use a degreaser on the mag and follower and wipe it down and again do not use any oil on it. Secondly, polish the feed ramp and not the chamber. I would take a look at the extractor for any burrs and lightly polish the extractor. Make sure the extractor is positive and not negative. Remove the slide and insert a round into the extractor and shake it. The extractor must hold that round. The extractor must hold the round over the rim and must extract. These are the two functions of an extractor. Like I mentioned earlier, 99% of a FTF is an extractor or magazine problem.

Nick

 

[RalphMP9FS]

Thanks for the reply. I inserted a new round into the extractor and shook the hell out of it and it held firmly. The nose of the bullet can be moved up and down about an 1/8" while being held by the extractor with the barrel removed. I don't have any polishing tools. I have no idea what you mean about the extractor being positive and not negative. Here's two pics I just took of the bullet being held by the extractor.

Most of the failure to feed are attributed to either magazine or extractor. Completely disassemble the mag and clean it but do not use any solvent. You can use a degreaser on the mag and follower and wipe it down and again do not use any oil on it. Secondly, polish the feed ramp and not the chamber. I would take a look at the extractor for any burrs and lightly polish the extractor. Make sure the extractor is positive and not negative. Remove the slide and insert a round into the extractor and shake it. The extractor must hold that round. The extractor must hold the round over the rim and must extract. These are the two functions of an extractor. Like I mentioned earlier, 99% of a FTF is an extractor or magazine problem.

Nick

 

[serpentine]

Here's a picture of the bullet setback after cycling 4 times. The shortest bullets were repeat jammers. A new round for comparison is on the far left.

I'd probably still shoot them all, but that just me.

 

[OldLawman]

Honestly, I would polish both the feed ramp and the upper part of the chamber first. Chamber reamers are not perfect, and a small machine mark might explain why this happens. I do this to all of my guns from th factory.

 

[Bumbury]

how do you polish the feed ramps.. im just wondering... is their any specific tool you use or do you just buff it with a cleaner?

 

[Bkreutz]

Your pistol (or any pistol) is not designed to cycle correctly by hand. The forces acting upon the mechanism are completely different. With only 400 rounds, you're nowhere near being broken in. I suspect that it will improve the more you shoot it. I had a couple of failure to feeds with each of my M&P's when they were new, but none of them do now. My round count exceeds 50K per year. One thing I did notice in your last pictures is that you have way too much oil/grease on your slide. If you shoot it that way you'll have a new appreciation for the term "smoking gun" (probably won't hurt anything, just a bit embarrassing at the range. )

 

[RalphMP9FS]

Thanks for replying. The slide looks that way only because I use Breakfree CLP. It was thoroughly wiped off but leaves a sheen and looks oily from the camera flash.

I have all 4 mags preloaded and numbered for tomorrows range trip, but your response suggests just shooting it more. I didn't want to disassemble each one today since I loaded them yesterday morning.

I plan on running about 150-200 rounds through the M&P tomorrow and 200 rounds through a new 9mm Taurus PT111 G2 that hasn't been shot yet. The Taurus has much smoother dry round cycling than my M&P.

If I have any feed problems tomorrow with the M&P, I'll disassemble and clean the mags when I get back home. I have each mag numbered now.

Your pistol (or any pistol) is not designed to cycle correctly by hand. The forces acting upon the mechanism are completely different. With only 400 rounds, you're nowhere near being broken in. I suspect that it will improve the more you shoot it. I had a couple of failure to feeds with each of my M&P's when they were new, but none of them do now. My round count exceeds 50K per year. One thing I did notice in your last pictures is that you have way too much oil/grease on your slide. If you shoot it that way you'll have a new appreciation for the term "smoking gun" (probably won't hurt anything, just a bit embarrassing at the range. )

 

[dlay]

I have never disassembled a magazine and cleaned, have shot hi standards, 45 autos, etc for 56 years.

 

[federali]

Failure to Feed

Solving this problem is one of trying to isolate each function or mechanical interaction until you identify the cause. As others have said, the slide should travel at full velocity. Easing the slide home or riding the slide will induce stoppages with many guns.

Feed Ramp: You don't need a gunsmith or a Dremel tool. All you need is some crocus cloth to polish the ramp in an up and down (same direction as the cartridge travel) motion to bring it to a shine. Doing it by hand, you're not likely to get too happy and end up damaging the ramp.

Switch magazines. Some mags won't feed off the top, others won't feed at the bottom.

Check the magazine lips: Are they too far apart?

Test with factory loads only as you are doing.

 

[OldLawman]

Regarding polishing - I use a hard felt bob on my Foredom tool, with polish. No crates or other grinding, just polishing.

Regarding cleaning magazines - you have to be kidding - never clean a magazine ?? They get dirty, dropped, etc. It only takes a short amount of time. Clean, but no oil afterwards.

 

[AGoyette]

To polish my feed ramp, I use a snake bore and Flitz's metal polish. I just put some Flitz's on the snake bore and bring the bore from the mag well through the barrel. I then "floss" the snake bore over the feed ramp. I makes the feed ramp look real pretty and shiny.

 

[George9]

I had always found that a tight fitting extractor had caused me more issues then a to lose fitting extractor. I would look at it and with the bullet test you did when you shake the slide it should look like the bullet will fall out but don't. I like it so lose you can slip the bullet under it and the feel for me is kind of like when setting the gap on sparkplugs. Just a slight drag to it with the bullet barely held in place with the slight shake of the slide.. This is what works for me.. That extractor of yours may be a little tight or long pinching the rim of the round to tight. I would cut it back some. but I'm not telling you to do this.. A call to S&W will fix this issue! And yes do up the feed ramp and chamber this will help to. George