New 15-22, having some issues...

[M4J0R T0M]

I copied the following from my post over on Glocktalk. I found this site by watching Brett248vista's video on how to load the mag. I'm hoping you guys, being the experts, can give me some good advice.

I know the title leaves you hanging a little bit, so I'll clear it up right off the bat. I am fairly disappointed with my new 15-22. I'm having major FTE problems

After reading a lot of the reviews and groping the rifle at my local shop, I decided that I "needed" one. I thought I was fortunate to find the new Magpul version with threaded barrel for $489. I snatched her up and brought her home.

I got to the range just a couple days later to test her out. I had really been anxious to shoot it considering how much fun I have with the 10-22. That is where my disappointment started. Admittedly, I didn't clean it before I took it to the range the first time, I wanted to see if it would make a difference. So I loaded up my mag with some CCI mini mags and had a FTE after the six or seventh shot. Then two more in that mag. That was the only recommended ammo I had on hand, but not the only ammo. So I proceeded to try to the other brands, which were, Federal bulk, Winchester bulk, Rem Thunderbolts, and Federal AutoMatch. All of which had pretty much the same if not worse results. Of all the ammo the AutoMatch and Thunderbolts had the least amount of failures. On average I was having a stovepipe or FTE on every fourth or fifth shot. Except for the Winchester bulk, which was almost every other shot and several time back to back shots. Also had several FTF with the Winchester bulk. I also had two open battery discharges. That was the first time I had experienced that, very eye opening. Total round count for the day was between 400-500 rounds.

So, in the true spirit of anyone who chunked down 500 bones on a nice piece of equipment, I remained hopeful. I chalked it up to not cleaning it before hand and the gun needing to be broken in.

I purchased two more mags before my next range visit to rule the mag out as a possibility and picked up several different types and brands of ammo. I cleaned the gun and I just knew the results would be better this time. I picked some of the recommended ammo this time. Aguilla Super Extra and Winchester X high velocity. I also grabbed some Federal Lightning, Rem Yellow Jackets, and Rem Golden bullets. Same results as with all the other ammo. I did clean and inspect the gun very carefully before the second range visit so I know that is not the reason. The extractor looks fine so I'm lost. The last visit also resulted in about 400 rounds downrange. You would think after nearly 1000 rounds the gun would be broken in. :dunno:

I guess she is going to go back to S&W. I hate that! I spent good money on a brand new rifle and immediately the damn thing has to go in for repairs, hopefully their warranty service is prompt and effective. I guess I'll have to use my AR for this upcoming Appleseed.:steamed: That is going to be expensive...

I included a couple pics for your viewing pleasure:

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

If you send the rifle back to S&W you can bet you'll get it back in good working order. If you'd rather not do that....

Here's a video on tweaking the ejector. You might find that with a properly aligned ejector and a clean rifle the other issues go away. Suggest using Fed Bulk Pack.

YouTube - Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 Ejector (Extractor) Fix

 

[DasFriek]

I agree with Phil on this as long as the ejector looks lined up fine you should send it back too S&W and have them tune it up right.

Im rather sure you have been loading the mags correctly if you followed Brett's video, I know it helped me out alot also. Im just sloppy when i load my mags and use the assist button, Its not the gun for me thats the issue. In another thread here you will see i posted about my mag assist button breaking on one side for no reason i can see, But thats when i started loading it as per the video so im not gonna bother S&W.

Dont get discouraged, They will make the gun right. And hopefully as fast as they had been doing previously. The gun is a total blast for plinking but also pretty darn accurate if i may say so myself.

 

[Brett248Vista]

Welcome to the Disorder!

I am really happy to hear that my videos are reaching an audience and helping, that was my goal!

I flat out took all my Ambidextrous Load Assist Buttons (ALAB) out of all three of my mags and have not had a "mag snag" since. But this past weekend three of us went to the range with a small arsenal. My friend Dave was really anxious to shoot my 15-22 which he subsequently fell in love with, and he's NOT an "AR guy" at all! but anyway, he started loading magazines when I wasn't looking. He already had one loaded and was working on the second when I stopped him and showed him how I load the mags. Wouldn't you know, the first mag I had a failure to feed issue, the second mag went through flawlessly.

I am not saying all your issues are mag related, your rifle may need to go back to S&W and honestly I know it's a pain, but they will take care of it, and at no cost to you (as it should be if there is issues with a new anything).

I highly suggest loading the mags as I do in my second mag loading video.

 

[maxxamillion]

Did you say the dealer sold you this rifle as a MOE version? I don't see factory sling attachment points.

 

[TurboniumOxide]

Magazines are critical to reliability of the gun.

 

[M4J0R T0M]

Welcome to the Disorder!

I am really happy to hear that my videos are reaching an audience and helping, that was my goal!

I flat out took all my Ambidextrous Load Assist Buttons (ALAB) out of all three of my mags and have not had a "mag snag" since. But this past weekend three of us went to the range with a small arsenal. My friend Dave was really anxious to shoot my 15-22 which he subsequently fell in love with, and he's NOT an "AR guy" at all! but anyway, he started loading magazines when I wasn't looking. He already had one loaded and was working on the second when I stopped him and showed him how I load the mags. Wouldn't you know, the first mag I had a failure to feed issue, the second mag went through flawlessly.

I am not saying all your issues are mag related, your rifle may need to go back to S&W and honestly I know it's a pain, but they will take care of it, and at no cost to you (as it should be if there is issues with a new anything).

I highly suggest loading the mags as I do in my second mag loading video.

Picked up another one of the recommended ammos on the list, Federal Gameshock, that makes four types of Federal now. I shot fifty of those, fifty Aguila Super Extras, twenty five Mini-Mags, and fifty Thunderbolts. The Thunderbolts are the still the most reliable of all the ammo I have tried, and they are on the do not recommend list.

I joined the S&W forum and found out that the two mags I bought are first gen and the mag that came with the gun is second gen. I have noticed a little bit better performance from the second gen mag, but it still has problems. I also followed Bretts loading method without using the assist button and that did not to improve the reliability. I didn't really think it would help since I would make sure the rounds were staggered correctly already. But it couldn't hurt to try.

Stovepipeing is the most common issue, sometimes it won't even cycle the bolt back far enough to cock the hammer. At least I have not had any OOB discharges in the last two range trips. I think it's safe to say the there is a problem with the gun. So I'll be calling S&W tomorrow to see what they say.

So any of you have any experience on Smith's turn around time?

Did you say the dealer sold you this rifle as a MOE version? I don't see factory sling attachment points.

I don't think it is a MOE, I didn't even know they made one. Mine came with Magpul BUIS and threaded barrel, nothing else Magpul though. The stock was borrowed from it's big brother.

 

[Brett248Vista]

Turn around time for me was quick. I sent mine back January 30th and had it back February the 9th.

 

[JackPineSavage]

Mine was gone for only 13 days. S&W only had it for three working days. The other 10 days were transit time.

 

[dakewlndn]

I joined the S&W forum and found out that the two mags I bought are first gen and the mag that came with the gun is second gen. I have noticed a little bit better performance from the second gen mag, but it still has problems.

IF and When you send the Gun back in. Included the 1st Gen Mags so they can replace them with 2nd Gen's

I had the same issue as yours but on my 2nd OOB Discharge the extractor when missing.

When you call S&W for a shipping label, have them email you one instead of mailing you one so you can send the gun off sooner. (Less time away from you)

BTW, after I got my rifle back 4 days ago. It performed flawlessly. Had a few FTF's that I blame on my mag loading procedure or Winchester's Bobble heads

MP 15-22's with Magpul BUIS are Talo Edition MP 15-22

 

[mag318]

The Gen II magazines are definately an improvement, I was getting mag snags out of a couple of Gen I mags so I sent them back and had S&W replace them with the Gen II mags which work flawlessly. A friend who was having problems with his new M&P15-22 similar to yours sent it back to the factory, and got it back in less then 2 weeks. It works perfectly now, so rest assured that if you do send it back (on their dime) you'll be a happy camper when you get it back. Hey your rifle is brand new, let them make it right.

 

[M4J0R T0M]

Wow, tow pages already. You guys are really on the ball. I appreciate all the help and encouragement.

Turn around time for me was quick. I sent mine back January 30th and had it back February the 9th.

Mine was gone for only 13 days. S&W only had it for three working days. The other 10 days were transit time.

That's what I'm talking about. I was hoping it would be pretty quick.

IF and When you send the Gun back in. Included the 1st Gen Mags so they can replace them with 2nd Gen's

I had the same issue as yours but on my 2nd OOB Discharge the extractor when missing.

When you call S&W for a shipping label, have them email you one instead of mailing you one so you can send the gun off sooner. (Less time away from you)


BTW, after I got my rifle back 4 days ago. It performed flawlessly. Had a few FTF's that I blame on my mag loading procedure or Winchester's Bobble heads

MP 15-22's with Magpul BUIS are Talo Edition MP 15-22

Great idea. Thanks

 

[Monstercastle]

Mine is a couple weeks old and I've only fired about 4-500 rounds through it thus far. Had a bad experience the first time out, but I found this site and it got better with proper mag loading on the second. Still a bit concerned, as I have the post revision springs/ejector.

I've had issues with Federal bulk and Mini-Mags, but no OOB issues at all. Mostly fail to chamber/load or fail to eject. The bolt does a nice job mangling the brass when this happens.

Now that I have my spare mags I'll put a lot through it this Saturday at the range. I may polish the feed ramp a bit if I have time before I go. At this point, I'm thinking break in and mag loading should resolve most of my issues.

 

[Ky Bob]

I also had two open battery discharges. That was the first time I had experienced that, very eye opening.

Don't shoot it anymore and send it back to S&W.

 

[cal1]

Did you actually try to adjust the extractor? You'd be amazed at how little you have to move it to totally change the ejection dynamics. Second question - does your gun have the blue spring factory springs? If so I'm not sure S&W will do much to help with this.

Here's why.

I had to send my gun in twice (early purchaser) to get things fixed. The first time it was for FTE's and FTF's. Upon return (first time) I tested it and FTE's and FTF's were better but still occuring about 1 out of 10 times. I They really didn't seem to fix anything but I found that careful loading and exclusively using Fed ammo dramaticly reduced the FTE's. I thought I had been loading it correctly but it seemed better when I followed everyone's advice (let the spring back up after each round) and checked to make sure everything was staggered.

One day I had an OOB that caused me to send it in the second time. This time they did the blue spring mod and sent it back. I checked everything to make sure I had an uneventfull outting at the range. The ejector looked fine. Sure enough first time out I had a FTE every other round. I was so pissed...geeze this was suppose to have been checked out by an S&W expert before they sent it back and I made sure they knew it was my second return. It seemed worst than before I sent it in the first time. I figured I'd try the ejector adj (what did I have to lose, I was gonna have to send it back a third time).

OMG it when from really unreliable to amazing. Just like my old 10-22. After about 600 rounds I don't even think about FTE's anymore. I didn't seem to move it much to make this extreme difference infact I couldn't see any really difference. I don't even try to use remington and my ftf's are non existant. I need to be clear that the blue spring mod did nothing for my FTE's. It was worse when I got it back the second time than it was before I sent it in. The adjust totally worked for me. I wonder if this will be a periodic adjustment or if it will stay good for a few years.

This may not be true for everyone but it's how my situation worked out.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Yup... that's where I would have started. Takes less time to tweak the ejector a 1/16'' to see if that improves things than it does to post a message here

 

[HalfSwiss]

Remington works for me

Cal1,

After reading about the problems people were having with their 15-22's, I checked mine out before shooting for the first time. I have the silver springs. I checked my ejector and it was already in the right place according to the video on adjusting the ejector. And I bought the 22 magazine loader from BDM - took me a couple of mags to learn the trick of aligning the loader so it goes down onto the rear lips of the magazine.

So off I went with three different types of ammo including a 525 round bulk pack of Remington Golden. Out of 525 rounds, everything worked perfectly with the exception of one round. It had a definite firing pin hit on the rim but didn't go off, so I had one dud out of the entire box. The Federal bulk pack had more duds than the Remington. Bottom line: my 15-22 works just fine as long as the ammo manufacturers do their job. Now that your rifle works great, you might want to try some Remington. Where I live, the Remington ammo is frequently the only ammo available in bulk packs, so it's nice to know I don't have a limitation in that regard.

I'm wondering if there is a lot of over-reaction and nervousness around the 15-22 because of the old saying: If it works fine they say nothing. If it doesn't, they tell the world. I suspect there are a lot of 15-22 owners out there like me that aren't having problems. And it's nice to know, from what I've read on the forum, that if I do need help, S&W generally does a great job of fixing problems.

 

[cal1]

I did retry the verious different types winchester wildcats, federal and the last of my remingtons. The remington golds were still very bad. My mkII shoots them pretty well (still have an occassional non fire) so I'm not stuck with ammo I can't use.

I still think it's so easy to try the adjustment ... why not just try it? And I'm sorry for repeating myself but I inspected my ejector also and it did appear to be close enough but after bending it every so slightly ... well the result speaks for itself. You may want to look at a couple of recent posts regarding lag time for S&W repair and return. My second return took almost three weeks. Long time but I guess worth it to get the upgraded springs.

 

[M4J0R T0M]

Yup... that's where I would have started. Takes less time to tweak the ejector a 1/16'' to see if that improves things than it does to post a message here

Did you actually try to adjust the extractor? You'd be amazed at how little you have to move it to totally change the ejection dynamics. Second question - does your gun have the blue spring factory springs? If so I'm not sure S&W will do much to help with this.

Here's why.

I had to send my gun in twice (early purchaser) to get things fixed. The first time it was for FTE's and FTF's. Upon return (first time) I tested it and FTE's and FTF's were better but still occuring about 1 out of 10 times. I They really didn't seem to fix anything but I found that careful loading and exclusively using Fed ammo dramaticly reduced the FTE's. I thought I had been loading it correctly but it seemed better when I followed everyone's advice (let the spring back up after each round) and checked to make sure everything was staggered.

One day I had an OOB that caused me to send it in the second time. This time they did the blue spring mod and sent it back. I checked everything to make sure I had an uneventfull outting at the range. The ejector looked fine. Sure enough first time out I had a FTE every other round. I was so pissed...geeze this was suppose to have been checked out by an S&W expert before they sent it back and I made sure they knew it was my second return. It seemed worst than before I sent it in the first time. I figured I'd try the ejector adj (what did I have to lose, I was gonna have to send it back a third time).

OMG it when from really unreliable to amazing. Just like my old 10-22. After about 600 rounds I don't even think about FTE's anymore. I didn't seem to move it much to make this extreme difference infact I couldn't see any really difference. I don't even try to use remington and my ftf's are non existant. I need to be clear that the blue spring mod did nothing for my FTE's. It was worse when I got it back the second time than it was before I sent it in. The adjust totally worked for me. I wonder if this will be a periodic adjustment or if it will stay good for a few years.

This may not be true for everyone but it's how my situation worked out.

Normally I would be the first guy to take the thing apart and tinker with it. But since it is brand spankin new I was afraid of S&W not honoring the warranty if they saw evidence of said tinkering.

I agree though, it would be easier and faster then sending it off to Smith. So...where is this video you speak of?

ETA: Nevermind, found the video. Off to the garage I go.

 

[M4J0R T0M]

Well, I was hopeful at first. After tweaking the ejector ever so slightly I made it through almost an entire mag then on about the twentieth round guess what.....FTE! And that was my 2nd gen mag. The 1st gen mag was a little worse with three FTE's out of twenty five. I will say that it did improve the reliability a little bit, but it's still not where I want it to be.

You all keep talking about the blue spring. I'm pretty sure mine doesn't have a blue spring. Are you guys talking about the bolt return spring, if so mine is just metal colored.