New 329PD first trial

[Don_G]

I fired upwards of 65 rounds through my new 329PD tonight.

All worked OK: my reloads were WLP primers, 8.6 gr W231, 300 gr Sierra SFN. This theoretically would yield 1000 fps from a 4" barrel. Two variants were as new Win brass and resized new Win Brass.

I put the Pachmayr Gripper Decelerator grips on the pistol before firing the first round.

After 35 rounds (as the 6th cyl) of firing the unsized brass rounds the re-used unsized round tied up the gun. So I think the unsized handloads will work.

The full-length resized unfired brass handloads were about 0.0015 smaller diameter than the unsized new brass before the bullet was seated. I figured they'd grip the bullets better. I tried a single round of this load as the 6th chamber through the last 30 rounds through the pistol, but these rounds included 15 handloads, 5 Garrett Defense loads (310 gr at 1020 fps in a 4"barrel.) and 10 Hornady "240 grain at 1350 fps" self-defense loads. This round exhibited .010 length growth (to the back of the cannelure) under this stress, and never tied up the gun. So the resized new brass loads worked as well.

The brass from the commercial rounds was uniformly expanded to chamber diameter, and was slightly sticky in the dry Ti chambers. My handloads were not expanded near the base, but bulged about .25" fwd. A few of these were more sticky than the commercial rounds, but easily ejected. I've seen this bulge before and I think it is due to a forward and reflected pressure wave meeting at this point. I've seen it in low-density minimum loads before. I suspect it would go away with a 5-10% increase in charge (to mid-range loading.)

I got no chrono data. Muzzle flash was non-existent for the W231 handloads, and the commercial loads had a LOT of flash. The Garrett loads added smoke to the flash.

Upshot is that I think the W231 handloads will be useful and trustworthy practice rounds. I need to do a load progression on this powder.

The pistol is easily controllable with any of these loads or reloads. Much ado about nothing as far as recoil goes. Might be different with a 310 gr bullet at 1450 fps.

HTH.

 

[dla]

Need to get a Chronograph. I think your real velocities are much lower than you think. And I'm assuming (hoping anyways) that "310 gr bullet at 1450 fps" is just a bit of humor.

Very little data is published for 4" barrels.

I'm not sure what your "length growth" was that would tie up a gun? Do you mean bullet pull? The 329 is a great kinetic puller and one should definitely do the "fire one - inspect 5" - "fire another - inspect 4" - etc. routine with ammo you're depending on. I don't trust typical roll-crimped ammo without testing.

You made the smart move by changing the grip before the first shot. Have fun!

 

[CWH44300]

The 329 is a great bullet puller and a great gun,
the rcbs dies I've used for 15+ yrs didn't put quite enough crimp for the little beast but I still had an old set of non carbide Lyman dies, that makes the most beautiful roll crimp you've ever seen, now them Keith's stay were I put them.
Enjoy your new 329 its the ultimate mountain gun

 

[kaaskop49]

Don G: Many thanks for your informative 329 post. I have been considering this gun, and from what you write, it seems too finicky for me. I shoot factory loads so perhaps the .44Mag mid-range loads of the 80s (240 gr @ 900fps or so) would work. But I'd hate to spend a grand and find problems with case expansion and extraction. Would love to hear more from folks who have this gun. VL

 

[CWH44300]

Don G: Many thanks for your informative 329 post. I have been considering this gun, and from what you write, it seems too finicky for me. I shoot factory loads so perhaps the .44Mag mid-range loads of the 80s (240 gr @ 900fps or so) would work. But I'd hate to spend a grand and find problems with case expansion and extraction. Would love to hear more from folks who have this gun. VL

I've got a pair of them and haven't had a bit of trouble with them, other than a bit of crimp jumping, that's to be expected with such a light weight platform chambered in 44 magnum. If you'd like more info look for dla's write up on the 329, lots of good info in there

 

[Don_G]

Thanks for the comments.

Yes, I tested the rounds for bullet pull by leaving the 6th round unfired in the cylinder. I used the same round as the 6th round over and over, not firing it. The unsized new brass handload "6th round" survived 35 "attempted bullet pulls" before it tied up the gun.

I then replaced it with a resized handload and started to repeat the test sequence (using even hotter rounds for the 5 fired rounds.) The resized unfired handload "6th round" survived firing 30 rounds with it in the cylinder and never tied up the gun. So I feel I've tested the quality of my crimp pretty well. I do think the resized new brass grips the bullet better than the unsized new brass, so if I ever use this load for bear defense I will use new resized brass.

If I need to use old brass for a bear defense load I will anneal the brass even if only fired once. I think this will give the smallest ID on the brass prior to pressing in the bullet, and hence the best grip on the bullet.

I hope to get a chrono test this weekend. I also don't trust that I'm getting 1000 fps from my handload in my 4 " barrel. I do know that the published spec on the Garrett Defender 310 gr bullet is 1020 fps from a 4" barrel. The point of impact on those matched my 300 gr handloads, so I have hope that I'm reasonably close to 1000 fps.

The POI of the 240 gr Hornady commercial load (box says 1350 fps, but that might be a 14" barrel) was almost 4" below the 300/310 gr POI.

I want to use W231 or some other relatively fast powder for the medium loads with heavy bullets, so that I don't get a whole lot of muzzle blast and simultaneously turn my 329 into a sparkler!

I have a 626 for regular use. I want the 329PD for backup. I am a 60 year old bowhunter. Last year I took a grizzly and a Cape Buffalo in fair chase spot and stalk bowhunts in Tanzania and Alaska. I don't want to continue to carry the weight of my 629 - I'm getting too old to carry that weight when I almost never need to fire it.

I've seen dla's posts and tried to learn from him.

I think the 329 is a great gun for a backpacker carry/self defense, using the "proper" load. I think a 300 grain WFN is the proper bullet and 1000 fps is the proper velocity.

I'm willing to listen and learn.

The "310 gr bullet at 1450 fps" comment was aimed at people who claim that recoil on this gun is not survivable. That must be what they are shooting.

Thanks

 

[Shuz]

I greatly reduced "bullet pull" in my 329PD by reducing the size of my expander ball in my Dillon Square Deal B.

 

[Don_G]

There is no expander ball in my RCBS die.

Maybe I could get a die that needs one and modify it. What other dies use an expander ball?

I do think that I'd like to get the cases to come out one or two thousandths smaller.

What inside diameter are you looking for on the resized brass?

 

[dla]

There is no expander ball in my RCBS die.

Maybe I could get a die that needs one and modify it. What other dies use an expander ball?

I do think that I'd like to get the cases to come out one or two thousandths smaller.

What inside diameter are you looking for on the resized brass?

Another tactic you might consider is the Lee Factory Crimp Die. It produces a substantially stronger crimp than a standard roll crimp and does so regardless of the brass trim length. The FCD just requires less overall work to get a crimp that will hold in the 329. It is a better mousetrap.

 

[Don_G]

I've used the Lee FCD extensively on my 416 RemMag, but I thought it was a taper crimp, and hence not the best for the 44?

I will order one, but for now I think I'm in good shape. I bought 1000 new cases that I will keep segregated and cycle in batches so that they should all be the same length even without trimming. We'll have to see how that goes.

I am a heavy-bullet believer, but I hate cleaning lead residue, so I'm using the 300 gr Sierra SoftNose and the Hornady 300 gr XTP. I wish the Sierra had a bigger meplat. Both are fairly reasonably priced for jacketed bullets. But there's just not much load data out there - especially for short barreled revolvers. I'd appreciate any handload data for moderate velocity 300 gr bullets. By moderate I mean 900-1000 fps.

I'd rather not have to send this gun back to the factory every 1000 rounds, so blast shield cutting is not acceptable. I think this means relatively fast powders. (No H110 loads)

 

[blueknight7]

2400 will keep you from gas cutting the top strap shield. 2000 rds., with 2400, 240 gr. Laser Cast SWC, and a bit over 1200 fps. No marks whatsoever on the shield. But, this is its second frame too.

And I got ya by a year. I love it when we "SENIOR" citizens, carry cannons.

 

[Don_G]

There's something I can't figure out about what powder cuts the shield and what does not.

2400 is about 90% burnt and H110 is about 85% burnt according to QuickLoad. So what makes the difference?

I may be old, but I never grew up!

 

[Paul105]

bk7,

What is the vintage of your gun? Has the blast shield ever been replaced?

Reason I ask is that I blew out at least 4 blast shields using 2400 and basically the same load you mentioned.

Maybe S&W has come up with a new alloy?

Paul

 

[blueknight7]

Paul105,
Mine is an 08. Frame ended up being somewhat out of spec. Was having a lockup problem. So, they replaced it. I am an FFL holder, so transfer was no problem, on my end.


I have always used 2400, or factory in this. Never had a problem what so ever. I have always wondered if the factory changes alloy's and doesn't say anything, trying to find the proper mix. They would have the records, since it has to go back there to get replaced. Maybe they are hoping to get the blast shield correct sooner or later.

The easiest way to do it, would be dovetail above the cylinder face, and the flash gap, above the forcing cone, and really put a heavy piece of hardened stainless steel in there. I look at the vanes out of power steering pumps, and my mind really starts thinking. Those vane are almost file hard. That would just about take care of any top strap cutting, and the return to the factory, so many people experience. It could be a field repair procedure, for the authorized S&W repair stations.

I get nervous each time they pull the barrel and torque it back in. Too many split frames. The reason my frame was replace in the first place was they over-torqued the barrel, into the frame, and tweaked it.

 

[Paul105]

bk7,

As mentioned before, I've had 3 329s. The first one suffered from the "over torqued" bbl syndrome and was replaced by S&W. Since this is my everyday carry, I bought a backup so that I'd always have one if one was in for repairs. As it turns out, both went in for repairs at the same time (March of 2008) -- one frame repair, one frame replace, both blast shield/top strap erosion related. One also had carrup issues. That was the last time the blast shield was replaced on mine. Since then, I haven't shot either gun enough to have any blast shield problems regardless of load. Maybe S&W has the alloy figured out.


Don G

A point of reference -- I've chronographed Bear Tooth Bullets 325gr WLNGC over 22.0gr of H110 (This is the MAX load listed in the Hodgdon on line data info) at 1,085 fps (same load goes 1,269 fps from a 6" 629). Three other styles of 300gr show similar results. Both of my 329s show like velocities.

Perfect power to weight ratio for my purposes -- I wouldn't be without one.

FWIW,

Paul

 

[Don_G]

What's a "carrup" ?

 

[Paul105]

Sorry about that, it was supposed to be "carry up", sometimes called timing.

The cylinder stop should engage the cylinder notches before the hammer falls in DA (DAO guns).

In single action the cylinder stop should engage the cylinder's stop notches before the hammer reaches 'full cock' during movement.


Paul

 

[J-FRAME]

Yes the ultimate mountain gun.

 

[Hammerdown77]

The Lee FCD for revolver rounds is a roll crimp. For semi-autos it's a taper crimp. I have Lee FCDs for all of my revolver rounds. On some of them, the stupid carbide sizing ring would try to swage the round when using cast lead bullets. This was less than desirable. I punched the ring out to fix that problem. On my 45 Colt FCD, the ring never touches the cases, so no issues there.

Neck tension is usually what you want first, rather than trying to hold a bullet with marginal neck tension by putting on a heavy crimp. I have a couple of RCBS die sets, coupled with a Dillon powder die (that flares but does not expand), which produce fantastic neck tension. And for the rounds I use them on (454 Casull and 500 JRH), neck tension is very important.

 

[Don_G]

Yep, increased neck tension is what I'm going for when I size the new cases. It gives me another .0015 neck tension over the unsized new cases.

I am a bit poor at accurate measurements, even with good calipers, but I measure that I have about an .0035 interference fit between the bullets and the cases. What inside diameter should I be trying for to get proper neck tension to feed this gun? Should I try to get undersized dies?

Also, I clean the bullets and brass cases with toluene prior to loading to get rid of any residual factory lube. Is that a waste of time or would that be of practical benefit?

Edit to add: Hope to get chrono data soon. Have so far only been able to get to the indoor range.