New 686 Plus Poor QC

[Matt Hooper]

First, a perfect example of why I rarely if ever buy a new gun on line. Not worth it just to save a couple bucks. Especially on a 686 plus which are pretty easy to find in local stores.

Now, that's not to say S&W hasn't had their share of QC problems. I sent back my new 686 Plus Pro last fall for a timing problem right out of the box. In fact, I've sent 3 out of my last 6 Smith revolvers back for various issues that weren't visible when I bought the gun at my LGS. NOT a good track record. However, they have always made it right and I've got my gun back each time in less than 2 weeks.

No excuse for poor control, however I have heard from a friend who works at the mother ship that they find it less expensive to repair than to have stringent QC on the line. I don't know if that's true but lately it does seem that way.

IMPORTANT - S&W and other gun makers sell millions of firearms a year. Most have no problems. It's just us obsessed gun nuts who loiter at forums like this that even bother to post. Of course that could also mean that there are thousands of others we never hear about lol! Ok, now I've scared myself.

 

[MichiganScott]

Just because some of you have gotten some Poor QC smiths doesn't mean their QC is slipping. Every company that provides a product has a percentage of QC problematic products that slip out. It's just normal business practice. THe problem is that now more than ever people are buying GUNS left and right, companies are developing way more products than before to meet the demands of specific markets. Now we have more women than ever getting into handguns, so we have smaller, lighter, guns being produced.

With the growing number of gun sales comes a slightly growing number of problematic products that slip through. The Greatness and Quality of a manufacturer comes into play when their customer support makes it right.

We need to remember that the reason we read and post on forums like this one is because we are firearms enthusiasts (also known as gun nuts). We examine them closely and fondle them repeatedly. We shoot them almost to the point of abuse and then clean and wax them afterward so they look new.

Your average non-enthusiast buys the handgun, shoots almost half a box of shells, lets his buddy shoot a cylinder load, wipes it down with an oily rag, and then sticks it in his sock drawer. Years later he sells it with the 20 cartridges left in the original box.

If he has kids and his wife is from a non-gun family, he locks it up with the trigger lock and tosses it on the shelf in the closet until he remembers it years later and sells it.

What we lose sleep over are things the do not bother the non-enthusiast. For that matter, it is doubtful they even notice an over-clocked barrel or the minor handling marks from the gun counter. They most assuredly do not complain to the world about lack of quality control or expect a response about their perceived issues with someone at an assistant Vice President level or above. The simple fact that S&W even replies to emails with implied threats to ruin their good name is indicative that they do pay attention and do everything in their power to rectify what some may perceive as lack of caring about what they produce.

 

[Rick_A]

HOW DOES IT SHOOT?

 

[buckhammer]

Got revolver back...kinda.

First, I received the revolver back yesterday...great turnaround time. The "Repair Order Completion" letter shows the following performed services. Evaluate, repair, refinish complete gun, replace ext., grip, reline (realign) barrel. These services were done, revolver looks great! Except...the grip they replaced on the gun is an SSR non-fingergroove grip, not the original Talo fingergroove grip. I know, I know, I should just be happy I got my gun back so fast...I shouldn't "gripe about the grip". No rationale, explanation, or reason for substitution. I'll contact them to see about getting the correct grip back, hopefully without returning the gun...which is no longer a Talo, it's now an ultra-rare, one of a kind SSRalo which I'm sure is worth twice what I paid for it! LOL See pic.

Second, some background. I'm an 01 FFL, 03 Collector, and I know the seller. He transferred the gun to me the day he received it from Davidson's (I've been unable to get one from Davidson's for months). The revolver either left S&W boogered that way or Davidson's did it during their 20 second inspection/logging (which I doubt). Admit my earlier posted pics aren't very clear, but the barrel was clocked slightly (agree, I've seen worse) and there was a burr on the cylinder ratchet...don't think that happened from handling. The gun was scratched, and yes, I'll scratch it real good over a lifetime of shooting the snot out of it! But, I'm a guy of principle, I didn't buy a hail damaged gun, I bought a new one. That's what I expect, hence the tone of my letter. And no, they didn't pop the side plate and clean inside so I guess they showed me! I rarely complain about bad food, I usually just eat it and don't come back. But I just couldn't let this one go...guess I must have snapped.

 

[686-380]

Whoa, whoa - You're not finished!

First, I received the revolver back yesterday...great turnaround time. The "Repair Order Completion" letter shows the following performed services. Evaluate, repair, refinish complete gun, replace ext., grip, reline (realign) barrel. These services were done, revolver looks great! Except...the grip they replaced on the gun is an SSR non-fingergroove grip, not the original Talo fingergroove grip. I know, I know, I should just be happy I got my gun back so fast...I shouldn't "gripe about the grip". No rationale, explanation, or reason for substitution. I'll contact them to see about getting the correct grip back, hopefully without returning the gun...which is no longer a Talo, it's now an ultra-rare, one of a kind SSRalo which I'm sure is worth twice what I paid for it! LOL See pic.

Second, some background. I'm an 01 FFL, 03 Collector, and I know the seller. He transferred the gun to me the day he received it from Davidson's (I've been unable to get one from Davidson's for months). The revolver either left S&W boogered that way or Davidson's did it during their 20 second inspection/logging (which I doubt). Admit my earlier posted pics aren't very clear, but the barrel was clocked slightly (agree, I've seen worse) and there was a burr on the cylinder ratchet...don't think that happened from handling. The gun was scratched, and yes, I'll scratch it real good over a lifetime of shooting the snot out of it! But, I'm a guy of principle, I didn't buy a hail damaged gun, I bought a new one. That's what I expect, hence the tone of my letter. And no, they didn't pop the side plate and clean inside so I guess they showed me! I rarely complain about bad food, I usually just eat it and don't come back. But I just couldn't let this one go...guess I must have snapped.

Would you let us know how it shoots?!

 

[Old cop]

I'm sorry to hear about your problems, I've been there w/S&W, Glock, Ruger & Springfield. All of them fixed my problem(s) but it was a PIA b/c I expected quality for what I was paying. My most recent purchase, a relatively inexpensive M&P .380, has been flawless for over 600 rounds of FMJ and HP ammo. I bought it from Gander Mountain b/c they offer an added warranty, for $25, if problems crop up in the first year of ownership Gander will handle all returns and negotiations w/the factory, worth it for me anyway.

 

[ridgewalker]

Thank you for posting your complaints and the resolution. I found the whole process very interesting.

 

[Matt Hooper]

WHOA! I would absolutely not be satisfied with SSR stamped stocks. That's 100% not correct for the gun. They are great to shoot and probably the same style as the TALO but ONLY should be on the SSR and to make you whole they should be replaced with the correct grips. I would be on the phone with CS asap! This is one of those things I just wouldn't settle for.

 

[RubenZ]

ya that I wouldnt settle for either. Those Grips are kinda of ugly for that gun.

 

[buckhammer]

Just got off phone with S&W. They are shipping the correct grips to me. I will post how it shoots, should have opportunity tomorrow at my farm. I must say, I likey the revolver...a lot...have lots of revolvers. Got the hots for this Talo version after transferring a few over the last year. Of those, I saw a few new ones in less than pristine condition, so I wasn't surprised when mine showed up. Also, the trigger is listed on their repair invoice as a MIM Case Hardened part, the hammer is just listed as Case Hardened, so I'm guessing hammer is forged? In any case, the CCH is equally poor on both parts, appears to be lightly parkerized on top of CCH.

 

[buckhammer]

Oh,
I haven't heard back from S&W management or customer service...yeah right. I'm sure my little email electrons are long gone in the delete bin, and the handwritten letter accompanying my revolver for repair is already in a land fill. Like I said, it's a principle thing, it was more important for me to say something that to actually get a response. But they are making it right. There's always time to do it right; it's just cheaper, faster, easier to do it right the first time...Boy I must really be old school...

 

[Tanners Owner]

Am sorry to hear of your experiences. My experiences with buying new Smiths has been positive ( M&P 9C, 627 pro, 625 JM and M&P) ; all bought between last month and 2007.

I too use them as tools, but like you I want what I pay for. Am glad to hear that they took care of you.

 

[JDM396]

Oh,
I haven't heard back from S&W management or customer service...yeah right. I'm sure my little email electrons are long gone in the delete bin, and the handwritten letter accompanying my revolver for repair is already in a land fill. Like I said, it's a principle thing, it was more important for me to say something that to actually get a response. But they are making it right. There's always time to do it right; it's just cheaper, faster, easier to do it right the first time...Boy I must really be old school...

In all fairness, all the "old school" boys I know, would worry about how it shoots relative to anything else. Back in the day, they didn't go over everything with a microscope from what I've seen.

Glad S&W took care of you.

 

[sw282]

lf l see a new S&W l will buy it.. lf it is not right l will send it back to the factory. People have been doing it since 1852

 

[one eye joe]

To the OP, based on the problems I have experienced with my last S&W acquisition (640-1 Pro Series), the company has let their QC slip.

I didn't get it through my LGS or dealer after it was handled for months and it didn't come from some on-line source. My gun shipped directly from S&W so there is no "the middleman did it" excuse.

They fixed the three glaring fit and finish issues. However, one of the problems with my gun was also a clocked barrel. I've now sent it back twice for this problem and it still isn't perfectly straight.

Like it or not, bad ones are slipping through. I've owned four new (NIB) S&W revolvers over the last three years. Three had to go back... Two had to be replaced.

Edmo

YOU MAY SAY WHAT YOU WILL ABOUT THE OP'S REVOLVER, WHO DID WHAT, WHAT HE SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE, ETC, ETC----THAT IS ALL FINE AND DANDY-----BUT


ANYONE WHO READS OUR FORUM ON A REGULAR BASIS, AND WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT QUALITY CONTROL AT S&W IS AT AN ALL TIME LOW, IMHO, IS A FOOL…...

 

[buckhammer]

It shoots better than me!

Finally,
First time I shot it, here's a pic of the target. Of course it shoots great! 25 yards. Right target is double action. Left target is single action. Ignore upper part of left target, that is my Auto-ordinance M1 carbine and it needs some tweaking...recoil plate keeps working loose.

 

[one eye joe]

A FEW CLICKS OF ELEVATION (TWO FIRST, THEN ONE AT A TIME IF NEEDED) SHOULD PUT YOU IN THE X RING. ALL OF YOUR SHOTS SEEM TO BE TO THE LEFT OF THE VERTICAL AXIS. I WOULD GO TO THE RIGHT, ONE CLICK (AT A TIME) UNTIL YOUR GROUP IS EQUALLY DISTRIBUTED AROUND THE CENTER. . YOUR SA SHOTS MAY INDICATE THAT YOU ARE TIGHTENING YOUR GRIP, WHILE SQUEEZING OFF YOUR SHOTS THE BIGGEST THING THAT YOU CAN DO TO ASSIST YOU IN ZEROING IN YOUR NEW REVOLVER IS TO SHOOT IT WITH A TWO HANDED HOLD, OFF A BENCH. TAKE CARE NOT TO LET THE BARREL TOUCH ON ANYTHING, AS ITS HARMONICS WILL BE INTERFERED WITH. THIS METHOD WILL SHRINK THE SIZE OF YOUR GROUP……

I KNOW THAT YOU DIDN'T ASK ME, AND I DON'T WISH TO STICK MY NOSE WHERE IT DOESN'T BELONG. YOU ARE NEW TO THE FORUM (WELCOME, BTW) , AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE MIGHT BE. YOUR TARGETS ARE VERY PROMISING FOR A FIRST OUTING. ALL OF THE ABOVE IS JUST BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE, MADE AVAILABLE TO YOU IF YOU FEEL THAT IT WILL HELP YOU. I AM AN NRA INSTRUCTOR, WHO HAS BEEN ZEROING COLTS AND S&W HANDGUNS FOR OVER 50 YEARS. (JUST A STATEMENT OF FACT, AND A SAD COMMENTARY ON MY ADVANCED AGE--NOT BRAGGING AT ALL) I WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOU REALIZE THE ACCURACY THAT YOUR BEAUTIFUL 6" 686 IS CAPABLE OF, SO THAT YOU WILL ENJOY IT TO THE MAX. I THINK THAT YOU HAVE THE MAKINGS OF A FINE SHOOTER…..……

WHEN I WAS COMING UP, MANY OF THE OLD PISTOLEROS THAT I WAS AROUND HELPED ME. NOW THAT I'M A GEEZER MYSELF, ITS TIME FOR ME TO PASS THE TORCH. HAVE FUN AND STAY SAFE…..

 

[regalsc]

Thanks one eye for the tip on tightening the grip as you shoot because somesometimes I shoot a little left also. I'm going to be aware of that next time. (This Saturday).

 

[bigfatty]

First, I received the revolver back yesterday...great turnaround time. The "Repair Order Completion" letter shows the following performed services. Evaluate, repair, refinish complete gun, replace ext., grip, reline (realign) barrel. These services were done, revolver looks great! Except...the grip they replaced on the gun is an SSR non-fingergroove grip, not the original Talo fingergroove grip. I know, I know, I should just be happy I got my gun back so fast...I shouldn't "gripe about the grip". No rationale, explanation, or reason for substitution. I'll contact them to see about getting the correct grip back, hopefully without returning the gun...which is no longer a Talo, it's now an ultra-rare, one of a kind SSRalo which I'm sure is worth twice what I paid for it! LOL See pic.

Second, some background. I'm an 01 FFL, 03 Collector, and I know the seller. He transferred the gun to me the day he received it from Davidson's (I've been unable to get one from Davidson's for months). The revolver either left S&W boogered that way or Davidson's did it during their 20 second inspection/logging (which I doubt). Admit my earlier posted pics aren't very clear, but the barrel was clocked slightly (agree, I've seen worse) and there was a burr on the cylinder ratchet...don't think that happened from handling. The gun was scratched, and yes, I'll scratch it real good over a lifetime of shooting the snot out of it! But, I'm a guy of principle, I didn't buy a hail damaged gun, I bought a new one. That's what I expect, hence the tone of my letter. And no, they didn't pop the side plate and clean inside so I guess they showed me! I rarely complain about bad food, I usually just eat it and don't come back. But I just couldn't let this one go...guess I must have snapped.

You got your gun back 8 days from the date you sent it in? I've been waiting two weeks and still haven't heard a peep.

This is getting to be a drag. This is about the 6th brand new gun I've sent back to a manufacturer for "repairs" in the last 18 months. I had it in my hand one day, and I'll get a factory refurb back whenever they decide to fix it.