Rick_A
Member
Ammo will never be a collectable for me.
I shoot it.
If it's too expensive I buy something else.
I've fired plenty of Black Talons and various types of vintage .38spl.
It ain't banned yet and I'm gonna choot it.
NEW ATF DIRECTIVE considered on SS109 - 5.56 ammo
- Thread starter X Ring Ranch
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I shoot it.
If it's too expensive I buy something else.
I've fired plenty of Black Talons and various types of vintage .38spl.
It ain't banned yet and I'm gonna choot it.
MichiganScott
Member
This thread is about SS109 (XM855), not XM193.
AR-Getsome
Member
Yes. I know that. I was replying to a member that said all .223& 5.56 was selling out. Read my quoted posts.
AR-Getsome
Member
Originally Posted by DanP7
Unacceptable
Further, any ambivalence from the gun-owning community is unacceptable regardless of your excuses.
I believe that 855 is far from ideal ammo, but it is relaible and inexpensive enough to suit many of my needs and I buy it over its closest substitute, the imported steel case garbage. However, we are seeing a net effect where the entire market is being disrupted by panicking individuals, me-toos, and profit driven speculators that reaches the entire .223/5.56 market. By the virtue of chicken little gun market economics, ALL 5.56/.223 is selling out, and will remain so like .22LR has done the past few years......
ChattanoogaPhil
Member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2009
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- 20,622
There has obviously been a run on all popular .223 and 5.56.
SGAmmo is my ammo candy store. They are out across the board.
223 / 5.56mm | SGAmmo.com
SGAmmo is my ammo candy store. They are out across the board.
223 / 5.56mm | SGAmmo.com
you need to contact your US Representative and have him sign Bob Goodlattes letter to the ATF
you should also email the BATFE and express your opinion on the issues
Send them to this email address: [email protected]
you should also email the BATFE and express your opinion on the issues
Send them to this email address: [email protected]
Ofc.JL
Member
I did have this thought: All the manufactures have to do to keep this round on the market is leave the small steel penetrator out and make sure the bullet is all lead and copper jacket. Problem solved! And the round sans the penetrator will probably be more accurate, it's a known fact that the penetrator quite often wasn't seated well, and being a little off center, caused bullet wobble causing degraded accuracy. maybe call the new round XM855B or something like that.
Yes I know it is deplorable what that rouge agency, the BATFE is doing. It is basically illegal, but so is a lot of what this Regime in Washington is doing. And seems like no one cares to or can do anything about it. Where are the men like our Founding Fathers, 'cause Lord we need 'em. We are in GRAVE danger of losing our Republic.
Yes I know it is deplorable what that rouge agency, the BATFE is doing. It is basically illegal, but so is a lot of what this Regime in Washington is doing. And seems like no one cares to or can do anything about it. Where are the men like our Founding Fathers, 'cause Lord we need 'em. We are in GRAVE danger of losing our Republic.
I made my weekly range trip yesterday afternoon. On the way back I stop at three stores to visit the friendly sporting goods folks.
It seems that some big national news outlet put out a newscast saying that ALL 5.56 was being banned (we know that is not true at the current time), which set off a run. I explained the real situation to several of the guys, who had not heard details. But Academy was happy just the same, as they had two barrels of 5.56 M855. Something on the order of 12000 rounds, at $5000. They sold BOTH of them.
There was a lot of the more expensive 5.56, but bulk was gone.
I guess the .22 situation was just a training run.
It seems that some big national news outlet put out a newscast saying that ALL 5.56 was being banned (we know that is not true at the current time), which set off a run. I explained the real situation to several of the guys, who had not heard details. But Academy was happy just the same, as they had two barrels of 5.56 M855. Something on the order of 12000 rounds, at $5000. They sold BOTH of them.
There was a lot of the more expensive 5.56, but bulk was gone.
I guess the .22 situation was just a training run.
Sorry, I was only speaking of the M855 ammo which the thread was about. I do see you were speaking of all the .223 and 5.56 ammo.
Either way, the M855 is not easy to find right now, except on Gunbroker.
AR-Getsome
Member
Again. I know this thread is about the XM855. Here is the quoted post i am talking about.
Originally Posted by DanP7 View Post
Unacceptable
Further, any ambivalence from the gun-owning community is unacceptable regardless of your excuses.
I believe that 855 is far from ideal ammo, but it is relaible and inexpensive enough to suit many of my needs and I buy it over its closest substitute, the imported steel case garbage. However, we are seeing a net effect where the entire market is being disrupted by panicking individuals, me-toos, and profit driven speculators that reaches the entire .223/5.56 market. By the virtue of chicken little gun market economics, ALL 5.56/.223 is selling out, and will remain so like .22LR has done the past few years......
Last edited:
AR pistols make up a very small percentage of firearms owned in America. Of those pistols I am not aware of any assaults on LEO's with them. In contrast, most LEO deaths are contributed to vehicle accidents, firearms are second I believe.
sgtsandman
US Veteran
It's possible. It all depends on how you define "armor piercing".
Exactly. Someone markets a "handgun" that chambers .308, and we are done.
Any centerfire rifle round is likely to be able to penetrate a vest without plates. If the ability to penetrate LE vests is the criteria, then they'll be coming for it all... This is just the camel's nose under the tent. They will continue to test, and look for any opening (read:lack of pushback) to further restrict us. 
With the mods' permission...
I'll re-post this here. I put this into the 2A Forum version of this thread, but this does seem like a better place for people to see it, and TAKE ACTION!
==============================================================
Go to this link, use the form, and your comments will go not only to the BATFE, but the Pres, VP, and your congresscritters.
https://www.nraila.org/take-action/write-your-lawmakers/stop-batfe/
This is what I put in the comments, clipped from the NRA website:
M855 ammunition should not even be categorized as "armor piercing" in the first place, given that lead is the primary material beneath its copper jacket.
BATFE's framework does not clarify the "sporting purposes" exemption; it simply interprets it into irrelevance.
The framework overturns nearly 30 years of settled law and the good faith expectations of gun owners and industry members.
The framework is totally at odds with the intent of the law to ensure that restrictions on armor piercing handgun ammunition do not unduly restrict common rifle ammunition, most of which is capable of penetrating police body armor when used in a rifle as intended.
BATFE incorrectly insists that it is required to establish an "objective" standard based on handgun design, yet it fails even to do that with the very broad "discretion" it retains to deny the exemption to projectiles that meet its "objective" test.
The framework will suppress the development of non-lead rifle projectiles that offer increased performance for hunters, decreased lead exposure, and solutions for hunters in states that restrict the use of lead in hunting.
The framework will likewise deter handgun development, as new designs could trigger bans.
Coupled with increasing attempts to ban lead projectiles, the framework could drastically reduce the availability of lawful ammunition for sporting and other legitimate purposes.
M855 ammunition in AR pistols is not a common threat faced by law enforcement officers.
By way of background, federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession, of "a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely . . . from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium." Because there are handguns capable of firing M855, it "may be used in a handgun." It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered "armor piercing." Nonetheless, BATFE previously declared M855 to be "armor piercing ammunition," but granted it an exemption as a projectile "primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes."
A few questions come to mind as this new proposal gets more attention. 1) Why now? 2) Is "armor piercing" .223 ammunition really being used at epidemic rates against our law enforcement officers? The answer is no.
This is a move clearly intended by the Obama Administration to suppress the acquisition, ownership and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles, and I urge you in the strongest terms to reject this proposal.
Feel free to clip and send
I'll re-post this here. I put this into the 2A Forum version of this thread, but this does seem like a better place for people to see it, and TAKE ACTION!
==============================================================
Go to this link, use the form, and your comments will go not only to the BATFE, but the Pres, VP, and your congresscritters.
https://www.nraila.org/take-action/write-your-lawmakers/stop-batfe/
This is what I put in the comments, clipped from the NRA website:
M855 ammunition should not even be categorized as "armor piercing" in the first place, given that lead is the primary material beneath its copper jacket.
BATFE's framework does not clarify the "sporting purposes" exemption; it simply interprets it into irrelevance.
The framework overturns nearly 30 years of settled law and the good faith expectations of gun owners and industry members.
The framework is totally at odds with the intent of the law to ensure that restrictions on armor piercing handgun ammunition do not unduly restrict common rifle ammunition, most of which is capable of penetrating police body armor when used in a rifle as intended.
BATFE incorrectly insists that it is required to establish an "objective" standard based on handgun design, yet it fails even to do that with the very broad "discretion" it retains to deny the exemption to projectiles that meet its "objective" test.
The framework will suppress the development of non-lead rifle projectiles that offer increased performance for hunters, decreased lead exposure, and solutions for hunters in states that restrict the use of lead in hunting.
The framework will likewise deter handgun development, as new designs could trigger bans.
Coupled with increasing attempts to ban lead projectiles, the framework could drastically reduce the availability of lawful ammunition for sporting and other legitimate purposes.
M855 ammunition in AR pistols is not a common threat faced by law enforcement officers.
By way of background, federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession, of "a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely . . . from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium." Because there are handguns capable of firing M855, it "may be used in a handgun." It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered "armor piercing." Nonetheless, BATFE previously declared M855 to be "armor piercing ammunition," but granted it an exemption as a projectile "primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes."
A few questions come to mind as this new proposal gets more attention. 1) Why now? 2) Is "armor piercing" .223 ammunition really being used at epidemic rates against our law enforcement officers? The answer is no.
This is a move clearly intended by the Obama Administration to suppress the acquisition, ownership and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles, and I urge you in the strongest terms to reject this proposal.
Feel free to clip and send
Last edited:
Overpaid Union Thug
Member
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2014
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- 61
- Reaction score
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Any centerfire rifle round is likely to be able to penetrate a vest without plates. If the ability to penetrate LE vests is the criteria, then they'll be coming for it all... This is just the camel's nose under the tent. They will continue to test, and look for any opening (read:lack of pushback) to further restrict us.
I honestly think that their true motive is to cause a defacto ban on all 5.56/.223 ammo by inducing a panic and making the ammo scarce and mostly expensive like 22 long rifle. That is the only logical explanation for their behavior because their stated reasons behind the ban just doesn't make any logical sense.
Rick_A
Member
I believe if allowed to pass it will lead to similar such bans of common rifle calibers used in pistols.
By the people for the people my butt.
"Shall not be infringed" has become a fairy tale of the founders, it seems.
By the people for the people my butt.
"Shall not be infringed" has become a fairy tale of the founders, it seems.
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