New guy with a "burned" model 29 needs advice..
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Joni_Lynn
US Veteran
Unless S&W inspects the gun and states that it is safe to fire, in writing I would consider it a wall hanger.
Sorry to see that happen to any decent gun.
Sorry to see that happen to any decent gun.
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as others suggested...make it a wallhanger...dont EVEN consider anything further
scooter123
Member
I would wait until you hear back from S&W. Rockwell testing key components of the frame is actually very simple, non destructive, and about a 5 minute process. Basically, a Rockwell hardness test is simply center punching a dimple in the steel using a VERY precise and calibrated instrument, the hardness is determined by how deep that punch penetrates. I'm in agreement with the others who feel that this gun may quite likely be repairable. Heat treated steels start to temper right about at 800 degrees F and if my guess is correct, the steel in this gun was probably tempered between 1000 and 1100 degrees F. So, it's distinctly possible that it still retains the original factory hardness. BTW, lower tempering temperatures produce a harder and more brittle steel, higher tempering temperatures produce a softer and more ductile steel. I suspect the original temper was in the range of the low to mid 40's on the C scale, thus my suspicion that it was tempered at a higher temperature.
However, if it is repairable, it won't be cheap and I doubt that it will ever be worth the cost of having it restored. My guess would be in excess of 500 dollars. Good news is that if S&W green lights the gun, and you have them restore it, it will come back looking nearly like a brand spanking new gun with some rounding off of the roll stamps being the only tipoff that it's been refinished. If I were in your place and it was my Father's or Uncle's gun, I would go ahead and do it. The only problem is that it's old enough that they may not have the parts to repair it. Big problem would be if the barrel or cylinder is badly pitted from corrsion, because it would be a real fluke if they have any of those in the warehouse. So, keep your fingers crossed for now, it may help.
However, if it is repairable, it won't be cheap and I doubt that it will ever be worth the cost of having it restored. My guess would be in excess of 500 dollars. Good news is that if S&W green lights the gun, and you have them restore it, it will come back looking nearly like a brand spanking new gun with some rounding off of the roll stamps being the only tipoff that it's been refinished. If I were in your place and it was my Father's or Uncle's gun, I would go ahead and do it. The only problem is that it's old enough that they may not have the parts to repair it. Big problem would be if the barrel or cylinder is badly pitted from corrsion, because it would be a real fluke if they have any of those in the warehouse. So, keep your fingers crossed for now, it may help.
minconrevo
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The factory should know the Rockwell "C" scale numbers necessary to pass their heat treat standards for the particular model. If the factory is willing to inspect the gun then can tell you if it is safe. Be sure to ask them what they are going to do with the gun, if it is determined to be unsafe for firing. They may not be willing to return it to you.
Guns can look pretty ugly after a fire and still be safe to shoot. It depends on how hot the fire got and how long it stayed there. If the wooden grips are burned completely away, that's bad. You can expect the blue to be ruined in a modest fire; not a big deal to repair, provided rust pits haven't taken serious hold. As others have said, springs are relatively cheap.
Rockwell testing, by other than someone who knows how and where to test, will possibly damage the function and appearance of the gun.
Guns can look pretty ugly after a fire and still be safe to shoot. It depends on how hot the fire got and how long it stayed there. If the wooden grips are burned completely away, that's bad. You can expect the blue to be ruined in a modest fire; not a big deal to repair, provided rust pits haven't taken serious hold. As others have said, springs are relatively cheap.
Rockwell testing, by other than someone who knows how and where to test, will possibly damage the function and appearance of the gun.
Cheapbeater, welcome to the forum.
Regardless of whether you are going to try to bring this gun back from the dead (and being an adventurous sort who is unafraid to waste a few hundred bucks, I would probably take a run at it if it were mine), one of your questions was not answered.
The cylinder and crane are held in place by the front sideplate screw. The unit slides out because that one is missing.
The rear screw is also missing, and if my eyes don't deceive me, the remaining screw is a flat-head screw. That means it is the one that belongs in the rearmost hole. The other two screws customarily have oval heads.
Please let us know what the factory says.
Regardless of whether you are going to try to bring this gun back from the dead (and being an adventurous sort who is unafraid to waste a few hundred bucks, I would probably take a run at it if it were mine), one of your questions was not answered.
The cylinder and crane are held in place by the front sideplate screw. The unit slides out because that one is missing.
The rear screw is also missing, and if my eyes don't deceive me, the remaining screw is a flat-head screw. That means it is the one that belongs in the rearmost hole. The other two screws customarily have oval heads.
Please let us know what the factory says.
OP
cheapbeater
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DCWilson- Thanks for answering that question, the gun had a scope mount on it, and i removed the screws to take that off for cleaning. After taking the side plate off I just put one screw in to hold the plate on (even tho its a really tight fit) i'm glad theres no problem with that...
I sure hope S&W will do the Rockwell test, and I hope the numbers come out on my side...
As for the grips, there was just a pile of ash inside the handle frame, I'm not sure if it had the stock wooden handle on it or if there was a rubber one on it...
Thanks for all the help so far everyone!!
I sure hope S&W will do the Rockwell test, and I hope the numbers come out on my side...
As for the grips, there was just a pile of ash inside the handle frame, I'm not sure if it had the stock wooden handle on it or if there was a rubber one on it...
Thanks for all the help so far everyone!!
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hi, i had to make a user name so i could comment on this. There is no way i would be scared of that gun. ive seen house fires before and i know how little heat it takes to remove all the bluing off a gun. it does not look bad to me. it probably didnt take much to make the grips fall off and make the front site melt. id buy the spring kit(someone posted they cost $30) and a front site and let it rip.
Just for the heck of it, just say some of the people are right. if the barrel was warped = a round might get stuck in the barrel, thats not gonna kill you. its happened to people before. just check after each shot. the only thing else i could think is the cylinder explode? even if that happened its surrounded by the frame of the gun, and the other cylinders that are not in use since the cylinder in use will be on the top side. and it wouldnt blow up, it would get a long crack in it. not that i agree and think this gun is anywhere near that point.
also, theres no way i would send it to S&W, id be way to scared they wouldnt give it back. or if you did, Dont tell them it was in a fire and request the rockwell test
last thing is if you just keep it for a display gun because your worried i would not fill the barrel or drill holes in it. just make sure whoever you pass it on to knows the history. the most i would do is with some letter stamps write a message under the grip panels. something like "fire damage" they will get the idea im sure
well good luck it, Don
Just for the heck of it, just say some of the people are right. if the barrel was warped = a round might get stuck in the barrel, thats not gonna kill you. its happened to people before. just check after each shot. the only thing else i could think is the cylinder explode? even if that happened its surrounded by the frame of the gun, and the other cylinders that are not in use since the cylinder in use will be on the top side. and it wouldnt blow up, it would get a long crack in it. not that i agree and think this gun is anywhere near that point.
also, theres no way i would send it to S&W, id be way to scared they wouldnt give it back. or if you did, Dont tell them it was in a fire and request the rockwell test
last thing is if you just keep it for a display gun because your worried i would not fill the barrel or drill holes in it. just make sure whoever you pass it on to knows the history. the most i would do is with some letter stamps write a message under the grip panels. something like "fire damage" they will get the idea im sure
well good luck it, Don
It wasn't a revolver, but in 1985 my brother got a Winchester M-94 .30-30 carbine out of a little wooden house that burned to the ground. He paid the owner $20 for the metal parts. The interior of the barrel was in good condition. The exterior of the rifle was completely rusted. We wire brushed the thing and cold blued it. We then fitted a inexpensive used buttstock. We tied it to a tired and fired a box of 170 gr. .30-30 ammo through it with no problems. My brother used it on hogs and deer for at least two years. At some point he got rid of it as his interest shifted to pistols. If the pistol were mine, I would have it checked for hardness. If it was O.K., I'd replaced the springs, clean the barrel, bead blast and satin blue it and then take it shooting with .44 Special ammo. I would not consider selling the revolver. I would also make sure that it was marked as having been through a fire. But I would give the revolver a try. I would not just pitch it or turn it into only a wall hanger. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.
wheelgun28
Member
I feel some folks need to rethink about this.
The grips are burned off, I think it takes about 600 deg (f) for wood to even burn. What alloy steel is the gun made from, I never checked. I would guess its close to 4140. To fully anneal 4140 it needs to be brought to about 1500 deg (f) then cooled. However you can temper the steel as low as 600 deg (f). A house fire can and will bring these temperatures. It was hot enough to anneal the springs!
Secondly why I feel a Rockwell test may or may not be accurate. Is that this was not put in an oven, it was not heated uniformly. One reading might be ok, but move over and it might not be.
Next point it this is an N frame 44 mag, its not quite the most over built gun in the world. (dont get me wrong I really like them) The weak points that I can see are the cylinder and top strap of the frame. The cylinder walls are thin, they will get hot fast in a fire. They do fail when over loaded. What is the condition of this one? Same goes for the top strap, thin, easily heated, and a weak spot in the design.
The barrel can be test for straightness very easily by several methods and is of less concern.
To me its a ticking time bomb, the gun in very good shape is worth a grand or so. This gun at best, reblued and fully restored will be worth half of that? It will cost most of that to restore it. While a thousand dollars inst nothing, its not the world either. An injury to yourself or others will cost exponentially more. Also if an injury were to happen and a lawyer finds this thread, well, it get bad fast...
A properly nulled paperweight, plaque or monument is still a very good option in my eyes...
Just one persons (machinist, mechanic and business owner)opinion
The grips are burned off, I think it takes about 600 deg (f) for wood to even burn. What alloy steel is the gun made from, I never checked. I would guess its close to 4140. To fully anneal 4140 it needs to be brought to about 1500 deg (f) then cooled. However you can temper the steel as low as 600 deg (f). A house fire can and will bring these temperatures. It was hot enough to anneal the springs!
Secondly why I feel a Rockwell test may or may not be accurate. Is that this was not put in an oven, it was not heated uniformly. One reading might be ok, but move over and it might not be.
Next point it this is an N frame 44 mag, its not quite the most over built gun in the world. (dont get me wrong I really like them) The weak points that I can see are the cylinder and top strap of the frame. The cylinder walls are thin, they will get hot fast in a fire. They do fail when over loaded. What is the condition of this one? Same goes for the top strap, thin, easily heated, and a weak spot in the design.
The barrel can be test for straightness very easily by several methods and is of less concern.
To me its a ticking time bomb, the gun in very good shape is worth a grand or so. This gun at best, reblued and fully restored will be worth half of that? It will cost most of that to restore it. While a thousand dollars inst nothing, its not the world either. An injury to yourself or others will cost exponentially more. Also if an injury were to happen and a lawyer finds this thread, well, it get bad fast...
A properly nulled paperweight, plaque or monument is still a very good option in my eyes...
Just one persons (machinist, mechanic and business owner)opinion
My sisters boyfriend picked up a 4" Model 28 that had the same thing happen to it, he sent it to S&W to be checked out. I don't know what they did to it, other than the finish it works fine.
If he ever decides to sell it I would be more than happy to buy it.
If he ever decides to sell it I would be more than happy to buy it.
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Double load some cartriges-put them in the gun and then go put it in a crack house-God's gonna get me for that one 
I would send to the factory to be checked, full disclosure, with a request that if it cannot be fully repaired to original condition to disable it, and return it so that it can be made into a plaque. If it is repairable, they will give you an estimate before proceeding and you can make a fully informed decision at that time.
Luck
Luck
DGNY
Member
Model 29
Two thoughts 1] Nothing ventured, nothing gained. 2] Knowledge is power.
Since you want to know, send it to S&W after you call them to inquire - perhaps ask for one of the gunsmiths to consult with you, if possible. Listen to what they say and let us know. Then follow through.
Best of luck -I suspect this can be a success story.
Dyson
Two thoughts 1] Nothing ventured, nothing gained. 2] Knowledge is power.
Since you want to know, send it to S&W after you call them to inquire - perhaps ask for one of the gunsmiths to consult with you, if possible. Listen to what they say and let us know. Then follow through.
Best of luck -I suspect this can be a success story.
Dyson
Having been a law enforcement armorer for many years, I have worked on a great many S&W revolvers. I cannot stress strongly enough that if it was hot enough to ruin the springs, it was hot enough to ruin the frame, cylinder, and barrel. Might you get away with shooting some very light loads? Maybe. Maybe not. A normal .44 magnum load would almost certainly destroy the gun and probably the hand holding it. My sincere advice is to permanently disable it and mount it on the wall.
StingrayG4
Member
I second, third and fourth this suggestion. If you do decide to send it to S&W, make sure you get a guarantee that the gun will be returned if it's no longer safe to fire.
-S
Ghost Rider
Member
If common sense doesn't dictate scrapping this item, personal injury, due diligence, expenses and liability should. sandspur6 up ^ there says it best. GR
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cheapbeater
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Got an email back from S&W... they wont touch it. I asked about a rockwell test, and what temp the gun is temperd at.... just because i'm curious. I'll keep you posted
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cheapbeater
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I got another e-mail back from s&w, heres what he said "we will NOT work on a gun that has been in a fire" haha he even put NOT in caps... so i gues the gun is a no go...
StingrayG4
Member
Sorry to hear that it cannot be repaired, but I still say you should go ahead and make that wall hanging out of it. Also, I would take this as a sign that you're supposed to buy yourself a nice model 29.
-S
-S
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