Some good news for those with a model 41

[PAgunman]

Hello and happy new year to everyone!
I just wish to share some information with everyone (since everyone has been so kind to respond to my questions with excellent advice and because this can be the turning point for some in deciding whether to give up on their model 41).
Please read my posts that have expressed my frustration with my model 41 since I first purchased it in August, 2021. It has jammed, stove piped, and had failure to extract issues, n matter the ammo used. I sent it back to the factory while under warranty and waited 7 weeks to get it back. I called smith and Wesson a few times while they had my new gun. No one could tell me anything! So I got my gun back after 7 weeks. I had a small white note with some illegible pencil scratches on it and no one told me what they did to supposedly fix my gun. Guess what? No difference in its malfunctions! Still continued with its problems. I took it to the store where I bought it and their gunsmith looked over it. They spent about 30 minutes with it. Guess what? No better. Still had malfunctions. The gun was just a few months old at this point. So I asked the gun store people if they would accept it on a trade in. They said sure……they offered me $900 for the gun that I bought from them for about $1400 a few months ago. How about that? The gun stores are the only businesses I know that can sell you a defective product and bear no responsibility! They make a nice profit from every gun they sell yet won’t help you with a malfunctioning gun except to tell you to send it back to the factory and wait 6-8 weeks. Great customer service for a “COVID gun”——I was told by a reputable gunsmith that he saw many more gun malfunctions and expensive knives chipping and breaking during 2020, 2021 and early 2022…..guns made during the COVID era where factories were not running full time, workers were not working, and apparently quality control dropped off significantly. Same with the expensive knives. Hmmmm…….and the CEO’s still get their million dollar bonuses!
Anyway, after speaking with gunsmiths in Alabama and North Carolina and West Virginia, I bought Wolff recoil springs and changed mine to a 7 lb spring…..the factory places an 8 lb spring. The advice I received was that a weaker recoil spring would give the gun more time to extract the empty shell. I also spent a lot of time on this website and other websites reading about what else I could do. Change the extractor, change the ejector. I did neither.
I sent the gun to another gunsmith…. A local one. He seemed very knowledgeable…..and was. He sanded off a small burr that was located near the extractor arm. Well, the gun fired much better! But not to the level of a $1400 Performance Center model 41. I continued reading over the Christmas weekend…..and wow!!! I found the answer!!! I read a blog written by a man who had very similar problems……here is his advice:
1. Disassemble the gun as if you were going to clean it.
2. Perform the plop test with a bullet. If it fails, time to thoroughly clean it!!
3. Clean the chamber and feeding ramp with hoppes#9 with a brass brush…..not steel. (I used a nylon brush) This gentleman said he performed the Plop test before cleaning……the bullet initially would not fall out on its own when he turned the gun barrel upside down. He used the brass brush to clean the feeding ramp, the chamber and the early barrel for 10 full minutes. Afterward, it passed the plop test!
4. What I added……I used a bore snake dipped in hoppes #9 to clean the barrel with 4-5 passes. I used a nylon brush to scrub the chamber, firing pin and ejector with hoppes#9 for 10 full minutes. I was very thorough! Lastly, I oiled the gun…..recoil spring and the rod and sliding rails with very minimal amount of oil. Not a lot of oil. It finally passed the plop test!

Went to the range on 2 separate days. I shot 220 rounds each day with 22LR ammo—CCI standard velocity and AR-15 fps 1200,
CCI mini-mags, Lapua, Norma Tactical standard velocity, and Winchester Super X 1200 fps, and Sellier and Beloit. All were 40 grain bullets. Guess what? 2 jams out of 220 shots fired. Accuracy incredible. Very, very pleased! Not looking to sell my model 41 now. Scrub off the carbon rings…..the answer!!! Who knew?!

Hope this post helps someone.

 

[PAgunman]

Just to reiterate—-

After cleaning, the model 41 shot 40 grain standard velocity and the higher velocity (1200, 1280 fps) ammo well. I also used 5 different magazines throughout these 2 days without any problems with any of the magazines. I am really impressed. And very happy that I did not spend $1400 on such a gun and it’s biggest use was going to be either going to be a loss in a trade in or as an expensive paper weight! Smith & Wesson HAS to do better!! Or charge much, much less!!

 

[minconrevo]

Lots of .22LR problems in semi-auto's trace back to carbon deposits in the chamber and leade. 22LR bolt action accuracy shooters clean only those parts of the barrel.

 

[PAgunman]

Yes, it’s amazing how much of a difference just heavily cleaning out the carbon rings means! People talk about changing springs, extractors, barrels, etc. to get a model 41 to fire properly.

Not one person except for the blog writer mentioned the importance of targeting the chamber for such a heavy-duty cleaning! No gunsmith, no Smith and Wesson person or factory person, no gun store person.

Don’t mean to go on and on. I am miffed because I almost sold the damn gun for a loss!

 

[Larks]

Great news. It doesn’t quite explain why brand new M41’s have such similar ejection problems without the opportunity for any build up to occur but it does coincide with the continued success that I’ve had after polishing the breech on my own M41:

My Movie 1 - YouTube

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...s/678279-model-41-blitzing.html#post141474080

 

[PAgunman]

Larks,
Happy New Year! Thank you for sending the video…..I like your solution. Glad your model 41 is working much better. Also, congrats on your excellent shooting performance at your club and doing so well! Very encouraging!
It just seems that many people have had the same issues with the model 41…… don’t know why Smith & Wesson can’t figure out some resolution.

 

[Hair Trigger]

Everything I've read about the M41, and I've read quite a bit on many gun forums from owners complaining about similar issues as yours, pretty much confirms that the older the model, the better it runs, and ones made in the last ten years seem to be the most problematic.

This seems to confirm my own thoughts about fit and finish, that the newer manufacturing processes, like CNC milling, may create a more consistently constructed product, which the manufacturer feels needs less hand tuning and therefore omits it to cut the cost of handwork from a true gunsmith. Even CNC process has a tolerance range, and something as closely fit as a firearm isn't just a tinkertoy or erector set mechanism that is bolted together and expected to work flawlessly. These small tolerances can make some guns run great and some not run at all. These inconsistencies between examples withing small age differences are frustrating when the one your friend bough 6 months before yours runs like a Swiss watch and the one you bought because you liked his is a total ***

I know that the one I bought, a rarely used 1985 vintage 7", has to be immaculately clean to run well. If it begins to collect powder residue or dust/grit around the extractor and breech, it starts malfunctioning. I can take it to the range and shoot all afternoon without an issue, but I have to clean it thoroughly before putting it away, or the next time out it could be a total failure. I also find that mine runs best with ammo on the higher end of velocities, around 1260 fps or better.

Glad you found out what your issues are, enjoy what I still believe to be a fine target pistol. Maybe yours (and mine) will improve as use creates some wear.

 

[PAgunman]

Hair Trigger,

Happy New Year. Also, I saw that you are a U.S. veteran……thank you for your service! I work at a VA hospital and take care of veterans. I try to do my best for each veteran daily.
Yes, I agree with your thoughts and views. The model 41 is a very fickle gun. And it is expensive. It should be a “statement gun” from S & W……like a Rolex is. Mine is a Performance Center Model 41 and it should be so well tuned from the factory that it sings! S & W should take great pride in putting out this gun. Instead, we get what we got…..money over anything else. Quality control is not that important to them.

 

[Racer X]

Lots of .22LR problems in semi-auto's trace back to carbon deposits in the chamber and leade. 22LR bolt action accuracy shooters clean only those parts of the barrel.

That and a 41 will have a tighter chamber than a Ruger Mark pistol, for example. If you want high performance, you need to maintain more.

Now, I learned all about this on a heavily crudded up Ruger Mark III chamber. Just takes longer.

I soak a .243 rifle bore mop in Ed's Red, and leave it in the chamber overnight. Softens stuff up quite nicely.

 

[chief38]

I have owned my M41 for 53 years now (bought it new in 1979) and can tell you this model at best is nothing short of a "finicky son of a gun". Many times malfunctions can be caused by poorly made magazines, poorly made or fitted extractors, or just a sloppily made pistol and because the M41 is a relatively complicated pistol with many parts, there is much to go wrong. When they work well they are fine target pistols. When they malfunction, the cure is to find a one the a million Gunsmith who specifically knows that model inside and out - not just a general GS who replaces parts. Good luck with that!

Today, the so called Gunsmiths at Factories are IMHO not really Gunsmiths! The MOST IMPORTANT part of being a good GS is having the ability to diagnose what the problem is. Many GS's can replace parts but few know which part or why the gun is malfunctioning - they just replace stuff and maybe they will luckily solve the issue - many times they don't. What kills me is they "supposedly" test the pistol after it has supposedly been repaired and they miraculously get it to work properly - that is until you get it back and try it!!! Hard to believe they actually do test it more than a couple of shots.

While I much prefer vintage S&W's over new production that in itself does not guarantee a perfect M41 - even a vintage version. I usually recommend changing out the factory extractor with a Volquartsen, trying a new recoil spring of various weights, going over the gun inside and out to make sure there are no burrs, nicks or internal parts defects, trying a vintage, metal follower type magazine and last but not least - make sure the chamber and chamber area is clean and that ammo is not being force to chamber - and then getting stuck. Then get some CCI 40 grain standard velocity ammo which seems to work about the best in M41's. These simple items are the best ones to check before sending the gun off to be repaired.

The good news is...... once you finally do get the M41 running as it should, just keep it clean and keep the magazines in good shape and you should have a very accurate and precise target pistol.

Yes - the M41 is sure finicky - but finding an expert who really understands these models is the hard part!

 

[Kp321]

I know that I’ll be flamed for saying this but here goes anyway. For stubborn carbon rings, I use a Flexhone 800 grit chamber hone. Ten to fifteen seconds, no more, will remove the hardest carbon ring and smooth any roughness in the chamber without hurting the accuracy.

 

[Kp321]

I know that I’ll be flamed for saying this but here goes anyway. For stubborn carbon rings, I use a Flexhone 800 grit chamber hone. Ten to fifteen seconds, no more, will remove the hardest carbon ring and smooth any roughness in the chamber without hurting the accuracy.

 

[M29since14]

It pains me to admit it. I bought my first S&W revolver 53-years ago with money earned mowing lawns, shoveling snow, sanding and painting storm windows, etc. (Actually, my Dad had to buy it, with my money.) The advice from every “old timer” who took an interest in me was, without exception, “KEEP IT CLEAN!”

I was one of those silly kids that actually listened to the old guys that seemed to know what they were talking about. It’s been great advice and has served me well over the years. .22s are dirty little gadgets.

I once bought an extra barrel for my first Model 41. The gun worked fine, until I tried the new barrel. Then, nothing but trouble. It would not cycle a magazine of shells without a jam. I called S&W and was lucky to catch someone that actually wanted to help. He said most likely there was a small burr on the foot of the barrel somewhere, likely underneath the feed ramp. He recommended checking this out and removing any burrs with a stone, not a file. He was right. Problem solved. I don’t know why I didn’t notice the burr myself. It was not exactly small.

I almost never have a jam or any kind of problem with Model 41s, but mine are all older guns. “Keep it clean.”

 

[PAgunman]

Thank you all for your reply’s—- I feel fortunate for the education that I have always received on this site from all of you!