Brett248Vista
Member
Woo Hoo! That didn't take long 
great results and the rifle looks fantastic.
great results and the rifle looks fantastic.
New Member and New to AR Platform - New 15-22, Where to Start?
- Thread starter pgamboa
- Start date
Vinney47
Member
"zeroing" is pretty much what you think. putting the dot in the center of the bulls eye and pulling the trigger a few times to see where the bullets land. where you aim is called " point of aim" or POA, where the bullet hits on target is called " point of impact" or POI. if they are not the same, you make small adjustments to the sight until your poa and poi are the same, and there is zero difference between them, then you are "zeroed".
you should only fire 2 or 3 rounds in between adjustments because that is all you need. you never fire just one round because maybe there is something off with that round, either from you or the ammo itself - firing 2-3 rounds will give you a group with which to base your adjustments on.
iron sights need to be zeroed as well. Poor results with your MBUS may very well be poor eye sight, but it could just as well mean you need to zero those sights.
also, keep in mind the when you " zero" a sight, it's for the ammo as well as the gun/ sight combo. meaning, different ammo with different bullet weight, velocity, etc is going to affect point of impact, generally minimally. most of the time it's not enough to matter, but just keep that in mind
you should only fire 2 or 3 rounds in between adjustments because that is all you need. you never fire just one round because maybe there is something off with that round, either from you or the ammo itself - firing 2-3 rounds will give you a group with which to base your adjustments on.
iron sights need to be zeroed as well. Poor results with your MBUS may very well be poor eye sight, but it could just as well mean you need to zero those sights.
also, keep in mind the when you " zero" a sight, it's for the ammo as well as the gun/ sight combo. meaning, different ammo with different bullet weight, velocity, etc is going to affect point of impact, generally minimally. most of the time it's not enough to matter, but just keep that in mind
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Thanks! POI and POA = 2 more acronyms I know understand. I will try 2-3 shots next time (maybe tomorrow since I need to zero in with the new UTG Riser). I will have more time and patience. I was in the "carnival" mode where you win the Large prize if you shoot the star out of the target. Also, I found I hard time keeping still before pulling the trigger. I felt the need to lean against the left wall divider to help stabilize myself.
I think a bipod will help stabilization for sighting in? I've heard of shooting from a rest or bench, but not sure if the range has something like that for me to use or if this is something i have to go out and get. Or what might be the best way going about it.
Vinney47
Member
Thanks! POI and POA = 2 more acronyms I know understand. I will try 2-3 shots next time (maybe tomorrow since I need to zero in with the new UTG Riser). I will have more time and patience. I was in the "carnival" mode where you win the Large prize if you shoot the star out of the target. Also, I found I hard time keeping still before pulling the trigger. I felt the need to lean against the left wall divider to help stabilize myself.
I added an edit about iron sights and ammo to my last post, just an fyi.
to truly " zero" any sight, it should be done with a bi-pod in the least, or from bench with a stabilizing stand or sand bags. this removes most of the sway that comes from shoulder firing, removes the " human element" if you will. most ranges have rests or bags that you can use/ rent - definitely worth looking in to.
I just realized that when I shot this for the first time, I was sighting in the MBUS at 7 yards. I then moved the target down range at 25 using the same POA. Didn't dawn on me until you mentioned it, that I needed to sight the MBUS at 25 yards. Duh... Most of my pistol shooting have been at 7 and 15 yards. I never really shot any further than that. Since getting this 15-22, I am trying new things.
I am learning a lot here and at the range. I bought a "platinum" membership Christmas last year. It was an Arm/Leg but it bumped to the front of line when there was a 2 hour wait at that time. The membership is nice as I don't pay range fees with it. It's definitely paid for itself with as many visits I make. I see myself making more frequent visits between now and Christmas, and most likely renewing it again.
I am learning a lot here and at the range. I bought a "platinum" membership Christmas last year. It was an Arm/Leg but it bumped to the front of line when there was a 2 hour wait at that time. The membership is nice as I don't pay range fees with it. It's definitely paid for itself with as many visits I make. I see myself making more frequent visits between now and Christmas, and most likely renewing it again.
UncaGrunny
US Veteran
Couple of extra thoughts:
Those big "screwdriver slots" in the thumbscrews are usually meant to accommodate a coin, like a dime or quarter, as a tightening tool.
Instead of bringing the target back after each group, take a pair of binoculars with you. Saves a ton of to-ing and fro-ing, especially if you start shooting at outdoor ranges with fixed targets and shared target space. Can't call a range stop every three rounds.
The "splatter" type targets help a lot with making hits visible over distance; at 50 yards, even with decent binocs, those tiny .22 cal holes can be hard to spot. Walmart sells 'em pretty cheap.
Zeroing as noted above is dependent upon a lot of factors, including the range at which you zero. Since the round travels in an arc (ballistic curve), but your sighting system (regardless of type) works in a straight line-of-sight, the range at which you zero determines where the line intersects the arc.
Using a short zero range has the sight-line intersecting the arc when the round is still rising, and so will be 'correct' at two ranges; one at the zero range, and one much further away. In between those two ranges, your POI will be higher than your POA.
If you can zero at or close to the range at which the round's arc "peaks," then at that range your sights will be exactly right, and at any other range your POI will always be below you POA. This makes shooting at different ranges simpler, because you are just "aiming high" by varying amounts based on range, instead of sometimes having to aim high, and other times having to aim low.
The tricky bit is, that ballistic arc is different for every round; it's driven mainly by muzzle velocity and mass of the projectile, but everything from altitude to air temperature to humidity to barometric pressure can influence it some.
Being a 'theoretical' datum, the exact path any particular round follows will deviate for a hundred reasons, including the basic accuracy & condition of the weapon, irregularities in the bullet, the powder load... not to mention the shooter's ability to hold the POA steady while their booger-hook cycles the bang-switch.
That's what makes shooting fun! (Leastwise for numbers geeks like me, heh)
I found this pic after a quick google search; really gives a good idea of the different ballistics of several small rimfire rounds. It shows the writers' experimental data for rise/drop in inches versus range in yards.
& this one gives a really good visualization of the impact of line-of-sight versus ballistics, and even brings in the concept of how sight height impacts zero point. It also shows why "bore-sighting" only gets you an approximate starting point for zeroing your sights. Bullets travel in a curve, light travels pretty much in a straight line.
(It's from Australia, but contrary to expectations, the curves are not upside down!)
Those big "screwdriver slots" in the thumbscrews are usually meant to accommodate a coin, like a dime or quarter, as a tightening tool.
Instead of bringing the target back after each group, take a pair of binoculars with you. Saves a ton of to-ing and fro-ing, especially if you start shooting at outdoor ranges with fixed targets and shared target space. Can't call a range stop every three rounds.
The "splatter" type targets help a lot with making hits visible over distance; at 50 yards, even with decent binocs, those tiny .22 cal holes can be hard to spot. Walmart sells 'em pretty cheap.
Zeroing as noted above is dependent upon a lot of factors, including the range at which you zero. Since the round travels in an arc (ballistic curve), but your sighting system (regardless of type) works in a straight line-of-sight, the range at which you zero determines where the line intersects the arc.
Using a short zero range has the sight-line intersecting the arc when the round is still rising, and so will be 'correct' at two ranges; one at the zero range, and one much further away. In between those two ranges, your POI will be higher than your POA.
If you can zero at or close to the range at which the round's arc "peaks," then at that range your sights will be exactly right, and at any other range your POI will always be below you POA. This makes shooting at different ranges simpler, because you are just "aiming high" by varying amounts based on range, instead of sometimes having to aim high, and other times having to aim low.
The tricky bit is, that ballistic arc is different for every round; it's driven mainly by muzzle velocity and mass of the projectile, but everything from altitude to air temperature to humidity to barometric pressure can influence it some.
Being a 'theoretical' datum, the exact path any particular round follows will deviate for a hundred reasons, including the basic accuracy & condition of the weapon, irregularities in the bullet, the powder load... not to mention the shooter's ability to hold the POA steady while their booger-hook cycles the bang-switch.
That's what makes shooting fun! (Leastwise for numbers geeks like me, heh)
I found this pic after a quick google search; really gives a good idea of the different ballistics of several small rimfire rounds. It shows the writers' experimental data for rise/drop in inches versus range in yards.
& this one gives a really good visualization of the impact of line-of-sight versus ballistics, and even brings in the concept of how sight height impacts zero point. It also shows why "bore-sighting" only gets you an approximate starting point for zeroing your sights. Bullets travel in a curve, light travels pretty much in a straight line.
(It's from Australia, but contrary to expectations, the curves are not upside down!)
^^^ Wow! Good information. I like the coin trick. I did take lots of math courses in HS and College and never thought I would need it here . Thanks for the share. I find enjoying reading the stuff like this. It's puts a new perspective to the results and variations.
Thanks!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
. Thanks for the share. I find enjoying reading the stuff like this. It's puts a new perspective to the results and variations. Thanks!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
TheMaineEvent
Member
Something else to consider is that you should clean the barrel if you switch from one make of ammo to another as the accuracy can be impacted if you don't.
Also, once you clean the barrel you may need to shoot upwards to 10 rounds or so to season it. The first few rounds burn off any cleaning solvents, warm it up, etc. You may find your first few rounds don't shoot like the ones to follow and this is why.
Also, once you clean the barrel you may need to shoot upwards to 10 rounds or so to season it. The first few rounds burn off any cleaning solvents, warm it up, etc. You may find your first few rounds don't shoot like the ones to follow and this is why.
I redid some XTM Covers and was looking through the Red Dot. It has the UTG .83 High Rise mount and discovered why this was suggested by most. I flipped out the MBUS Sights...Lo and Behold, I can see the sights through the scope!! I tried this with the mount that came with TRS-25 and I couldn't see 'em before. SWEET! I thought I was going to have to remove the Red Dot physically to shoot using MBUS. Freakin' awesome. Y'all ROCK! Next item for me to learn...To sling or not to sling. I plan on visiting a friends place here in Texas who has about 80 acres. We've shot on his land before but only pistols. I can see where a sling would be useful. I can't see any other time I would personally use a sling. Suggestions? I have the MOE version that came with the QD Swing Swivel Attachment Point on the lower. What else and where else would I attached a sling to? I see that there are also many options for this as well.
RedNeck Jim
Member
Keep in mind, a sling, just like most attachments, isn't permanent. Note the QD, which obviously means quick disconnect. If you have an application where you need to carry the gun long distance, then yes, get a sling. But for all other purposes, I would take it off... unless you happen to use the sling to brace yourself during shooting. I have a sling but never use it. I'm either shooing at home or driving out to where I'm gonna shoot. I'm too old & fat for hiking.
UncaGrunny
US Veteran
Keep in mind, a sling, just like most attachments, isn't permanent. Note the QD, which obviously means quick disconnect. If you have an application where you need to carry the gun long distance, then yes, get a sling. But for all other purposes, I would take it off... unless you happen to use the sling to brace yourself during shooting. I have a sling but never use it. I'm either shooing at home or driving out to where I'm gonna shoot. I'm too old & fat for hiking.
LOL! I wouldn't be doing any hiking with this anytime soon so a QD would probably suit my needs. I am guessing there are QD attachments I would place on a rail to go along with the QD on the lower that came with it?
This is called "Co-Witnessing." Another new term!
I JUST finished watching a youtube video that explained that!
RedNeck Jim
Member
Vinney47
Member
When using a two point sling, I use a rail mounted sling attachment, but mount it far back. I've found I really like having the forward sling attachment behind my off hand. But that only works if the rear mount is at the far end of the stock.
Shown on my M&P15x, but I have the same setup on the 15-22. That is a Magpul RSA (railed sling attachment) I'm using in tandem with a Magpul MS3 sling. Fine pieces of equipment.
For your rifle though, the QD mount on the MOE receiver is designed for a single point sling. If you try to mount a 2 point sling using that QD slot for the rear attachment point, it's really awkward to get the rifle to your shoulder for firing, you get entangled with the sling.
The other option is to attach the sling directly to the stock (using the slots on the rear of it) for the rear attachment and purchase a rail mount sling attachment point for the forward spot (such as the RSA, or plenty of other options, both less and more expensive).
If you don't plan on using the sling much, I'd get a cheap 1 point sling with QD connection and just use that as the QD connection is already built into your receiver - very little money spent for a workable option.
Shown on my M&P15x, but I have the same setup on the 15-22. That is a Magpul RSA (railed sling attachment) I'm using in tandem with a Magpul MS3 sling. Fine pieces of equipment.
For your rifle though, the QD mount on the MOE receiver is designed for a single point sling. If you try to mount a 2 point sling using that QD slot for the rear attachment point, it's really awkward to get the rifle to your shoulder for firing, you get entangled with the sling.
The other option is to attach the sling directly to the stock (using the slots on the rear of it) for the rear attachment and purchase a rail mount sling attachment point for the forward spot (such as the RSA, or plenty of other options, both less and more expensive).
If you don't plan on using the sling much, I'd get a cheap 1 point sling with QD connection and just use that as the QD connection is already built into your receiver - very little money spent for a workable option.
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UncaGrunny
US Veteran
Being an old-school kind of guy, I went with an old-school sling solution as close to what I learned on in the early 80's as possible without changing the foregrip/front sight assy:
2-point attachment of a USGI sling, rear of stock and forward of my grip point.
I'm sure some of the newer 1-point or 3-point sling arrangements actually work better (otherwise the pro's would still be using the 2-point), but for me this is comfortable.
2-point attachment of a USGI sling, rear of stock and forward of my grip point.
I'm sure some of the newer 1-point or 3-point sling arrangements actually work better (otherwise the pro's would still be using the 2-point), but for me this is comfortable.
Attachments
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noslolo
Member
Welcome to the madness! You have great new plinker and have made some great choices. One of the first mods I did was to replace the trigger spring with a JP yellow spring. It is super easy to do and costs very little. You can buy it from a number of sites. I got mine from midway; it was under $15 with shipping. I also bought a smaller front sight post. Not the entire front sight just a smaller sight post. This really helped with the iron sights and was also verysuperb cheap toto do. Kudos on the TRS 25, that is excatly what I bought.
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I thought you were kidding on the bottle opener. I browsed Tacticool's website and IT DOES exist! LOL!
I ended up back at the range today and decided to sight the TRS-25 to 10 meters since I will be taking my 8 yr old son to test fire it. He has been showing lots of interest in it. He has an SR-22 that he shoots with regularly when we go together.
While there, I asked a employee about some suggestions on slings. I think I have one in mind.
Also while there, I had a thought...
When you purchase a firearm (long gun or pistol), what distance are the stock sights typically sighted for? Are they set for any specific distance? For pistols, most of my practice has been 7 or 15 yards for CHL Qual. I assumed the factory sights on my pistol I bought were already set for close distances?
Now that my MBUS and TRS-25/UTG .83 are sighted for 10 meters and Co-Witnessed (<---- Look at all those acronyms), Should I adjust the MBUS for longer distances when I want to shoot longer distances? I am thinking to leave the MBUS where they are at since I wouldn't shoot w/o the Red Dot at that distance and only sight in the Red Dot.
Majorlk
Member
The odds of factory iron sights being adjusted for any specific distance is next to nil. Do not assume the rifle has been sighted it at all.
Do your own sighting in.
Do your own sighting in.
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