New Member & Model-60 Owner With A Couple Questions

[wrangler5]

Old cop,

I like what you said here but wonder, is there a current source for the old FBI load you mention? < snip>

I believe the Remington +P 158g LSWHP load is supposed to be close to what the FBI load was. Rem currently calls it "HTP" ammo, and unlike much of the fancy defensive ammo it's available in boxes of 50.

In my experience with my guns, the Buffalo Bore 158g standard pressure load with the same bullet makes exactly the same velocity as the Remington. (It also gives about the same recoil - BB may be wizards when it comes to pressures, but they can't fix that physics thing about mass and velocity and equal and opposite.) So the BB load would be an alternative for those worried about +P pressures in older guns.

 

[didactic]

7. If you plan on shooting the shorter 38 specials, make sure you thoroughly clean the chambers so you still have the option of using (not a great idea) the .357 rounds if you choose. (that will really help develop a flinch). In fact, I would clean the gun after each use to make things easier. Especially if you are using lead bullets.

8. Practice and more practice. Hopefully with another experienced shooter that can help. Las Vegas has a lot of ranges and any money you spend on instruction would be well spent.

You did good and I wish you and your wife the best. Sorry for the long post but new shooters are my passion.

Re point #7 above: You might be told that shooting .38 Specials in the longer .357 Magnum chambers will eventually etch or erode a ring into the chamber, that will give you trouble if/when you shoot .357's. I've never seen this. What I HAVE seen is a ridge of fouling building up in the chambers at the case mouth point, after firing a LOT of .38's, that a casual cleaning won't remove. If that happens, .357's will be hard or even impossible to load, and/or hard to eject after firing. If this happens, the solution is simple: solvent and a bronze brush when cleaning, with careful visual inspection afterwards.

Agree with all the others, a fine little shootin' iron.

 

[S&W SS Revolvers]

Thanks to all for the quick responses and info. Good to hear that the 'lock issue' appears to have been overblown.

The Gold-Dot seems to have consistent results in gel testing. I guess the ammo 'debate' here is no different than the 'Cold Air Intake' debate on car and truck forums.

Next on the list is a 686.

Ahhh...686 music t my ears...they are sooooooo sweet!!!

 

[S&W SS Revolvers]

I haven't 10% of the shooting experience many here do and dad started me at 3 in uhhhh 1964 with his old .22 Ruger Single Six thats locked up downstairs. BTW my grandsons started with it 2 months ago (and it works flawlessly with a probable 70000 + rounds). With that said the .38 and moreso the .357 are now and likely will be the most favorite calibers ever for me.

Now my wife...is a Rock Star with a 9MM semi auto. She says the revolver is antiquainted...well so am I and she's only 5 years younger. Is she a millenial? LOL!!! Please , someone say yes...

God Bless our Freedom; Forever , Amen...

 

[sckothmann]

Good little Smith

Bought one of these for my wife back in 1997. I have to say it is one of the sweetest little revolvers she or I have ever fired. Good trigger, especially in the single action mode.

I would stay with the .38 Special loads for practice. Firing a full power .357 load thru the Model 60 is, at best, uncomfortable, and staying on target with it takes a LOT of practice. My wife is small, with small hands, and she definitely cannot handle a full power .357 round. With the .38 SPL stuff, she hits consistently where she is aiming, and isn't afraid of the gun.

So have fun!! The Model 60 is fun to shoot, easy to handle, and easy to conceal.

 

[Pointblank2U]

http://hipowersandhandguns.com/38 Snub Ammo Test.htm

 

[BB57]

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6. I would definitely invest in a set of Crimson Trace Lasergrips. I find women like the LG305's. That dot will definitely teach her trigger control and in a panic situation, it takes using the sights on your gun out of the equation. Their website will have great videos. Now, she can really put that dry fire practice/trigger control to good use.

7. If you plan on shooting the shorter 38 specials, make sure you thoroughly clean the chambers so you still have the option of using (not a great idea) the .357 rounds if you choose. (that will really help develop a flinch). In fact, I would clean the gun after each use to make things easier. Especially if you are using lead bullets.

8. Practice and more practice. Hopefully with another experienced shooter that can help. Las Vegas has a lot of ranges and any money you spend on instruction would be well spent.

Great post.

I frequently here people exclaiming that shooting .38 specials in a .357 will result in a carbon ring that prevents you from inserting a .357 magnum cartridge. That's very true - but only for folks who don't clean their revolvers nearly enough. I put about 200 rounds per session of .38 special through whatever .357 Mag revolver I'm carrying at the time and after years of this I have yet to encounter anything other than an incipient carbon ring if for some reason I skipped cleaning after a range session. Even then after 400 rounds, a little powder solvent and a bronze bore brush cleans it right out. I have no idea how many rounds it takes to get a serious carbon ring formed, but it's obviously a lot.

Practice is the key, particularly with a J-frame revolver, and my advise to a new shooter is to get some instruction or at least mentoring from a shooter who is not just experienced, but also knows what he or she is doing and understands shooting a J-frame in depth (although to be honest the same applies to instructors).

I don't personally agree with the laser grip suggestion. Lasers can be a great instructional tool, but if not used very carefully they get the student focusing on the wrong things and can be detrimental to learning the fundamentals - like sight alignment and a proper and consistent grip.

 

[Tom_R]

If your wife is a new shooter, then skip +p anything or magnums for now.

Get her used to shooting mild factory loads, and for carry, get her regular pressure hollow points and you will be good.

Once she shoots a lot test out +p and maybe a cylinder full of magnums if she feels particularly adventurous that day.

 

[thebreaze]

It's been a long time since I have posted anything,because usually anything I have to say has been said by the others and probably better!!

Any way...I agree on the Crimson Trace grips. As I am now older and have found difficulty seeing both the front sight and target at the same time, I needed to try something else.
I now have no problem hitting the 10 ring.

What I have noticed is that no one has mentioned Ruger ARX or PolyCase ammo. I really do like this ammo. It's still fairly new to the ammo market and .38 spec. can be a pain to find. It is a high velocity low recoil 77 grain defensive round and will be more comfortable in a J Frame. However I would still practice with the cheapest old .38 you can find.
There is a lot of info and videos on the ARX or PolyCase, so do your own research and decide. It really does come down to what works best for you.

Good Luck and God Speed

 

[TAC]

I practice using point shooting a lot. In many self defense shooting situations, they're likely to be up close and personal, and you don't even want to take the time to use sights, let alone, play with a laser. Point shooting can be very effective, and lightning fast!

 

[Taj]

Rebelfan,
+p ammo is soon going to be a thing of the past. I do FBI protocol ballistic shoots for a major ammo maker. I do them for potential LE customers and have have done a bunch. Ballistic engineers have done a great job on bullet design in the last few years. Velocity isn't nearly important these days because bullets are designed to perform at standard velocities. Penetration, which is second only to shot placement, is being achieved (15-18 inches) with expansion of at least 1.5x bullet diameter. We've always used high velocities to get bullets to perform but the downside is recoil and muzzle blast, which, by the way, generally reduces our ability for followup shots and shot placement. Shoot a heavier bullet (147-158 grain), designed for defense, from a big name ammo maker, and you will have the best performance you can get from a handgun cartridge. Heck, we even see 15-16 inches of penetration in ballistic "jello" from 148 grain wadcutters. I'm not recommending them for defense, but the last dead guy I saw in my career in law enforcement was hit three times with them and was DRT,(dead right there) with 2 of those bullets resting just under the skin, opposite the entry. Shoot a lot, get trained, and put them where they can do the most "good".

Taj

 

[Taj]

I practice using point shooting a lot. In many self defense shooting situations, they're likely to be up close and personal, and you don't even want to take the time to use sights, let alone, play with a laser. Point shooting can be very effective, and lightning fast!

TAC

The fastest shooters in the world use sights. "Point shooting" in a defensive shooting will get you killed. Train to use the sights and you will always use them, even if it's a rudimentary sight picture. It's been proven many times, that it takes no longer to line up sights, than it takes to make a conscious decision to pull a trigger. The good makers at S&W saw fit to put sights on that revolver. Not using them would be hard to justify in court if you miss and hit the wrong person, and these are things we have to always be cognoscente of. I trained LE for 40 years feel is always prudent to get that handgun between your face and the target because you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight.

Taj

 

[Muss Muggins]

. . . I trained LE for 40 years feel is always prudent to get that handgun between your face and the target because you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight.

Taj

But you can certainly miss slow enough to lose one . . .

 

[Green Frog]

JMHO based on about 45 years or so of shooting and gun maintenance, but I honestly feel like the whole "ring in the chamber" thing has been blown out of proportion. With thousands of rounds of corrosive primed 22 shorts in a soft steel barrel, yes, but with modern ammo in round counts in the hundreds or low thousands in a modern barrel or cylinder, I surely wouldn't worry! I regularly mix rounds in 32 S&W Long and 327 Fed Mag in my "Project 616" chambers, and I surely wouldn't risk that if I thought there was a likelihood of damage. Enjoy the flexibility of multiple cartridge lengths and powers and use a little judicious cleaning and you should be fine.

Froggie

 

[wrangler5]

Using a laser grip is not "point shooting." You are aiming precisely, using a device that puts a single aiming point ON the target rather than requiring proper alignment of two aiming points with the desired spot on the target. Similar to the way a parallax free scope eliminates alignment errors by placing the reticle and aim point on the same plane.

The benefit of the laser grip (CT style, where the laser comes on just by gripping the gun) is that you can do that precise shot placement before the gun gets up to eye level. The one time I've used a laser grip in a match (BUG match, IDPA-type scenarios) it took me a couple of stages to really focus on the red dot instead of the sights, but after that I was getting shots off before the gun got up to eye level, and they were going exactly where intended. I became noticeably faster as the match went on as I got used to using the red dot.

On the cleaning of chambers in my 357s that shoot a lot of 38s - I've found that a 40 caliber bronze brush is much more effective for cleaning the residue out of chambers than one marked for 38/357. The latter are fine for barrels, but the larger brush does a better job on chamber walls.

 

[Stephanie B]

6. I would definitely invest in a set of Crimson Trace Lasergrips. I find women like the LG305's. That dot will definitely teach her trigger control and in a panic situation, it takes using the sights on your gun out of the equation.

+1 on this, especially in a dimly-lit situation. A very good friend has a 3" 60 with 305s. They really do help.