New Member with 2 Famly Revolvers

[rd3rd]

Hello ALL - Found your forum and joined last week. Have been reading & learning good info. on my revolvers - Thanks!
Have two that I have some family history, but not production info. on models & ages. Guess it would be best to describe each separately. The Chief was given to me by a retired WWII & Korea Lt. Col. SAC Wing Commander - was supposed to be his Service Revolver. The Victory was my dad's who was a WWII B-17 pilot. Will describe & supply pictures of each here shortly. Thanks for ALL your 'teaching' me what I have.

 

[murphydog]

The Chiefs Special is an earlier one with the smaller trigger guard, called a "Baby Chief". It was shipped sometime between 1952 to '54, but if you can post the first few digits of the SN (from the bottom of the grip frame) we may get you a more specific date.

The other gun is an interesting one for a USAAF pilot, because it is stamped ".38 S & W CTG" on the right barrel and has what appears to be a 4" barrel and nickel finish. The US Army bought many .38 Special revolvers during WW II but few if any in .38 S & W, which were primarily sent to Britain and the Commonwealth countries and most with 5" barrels. Perhaps he received it from a British military member while overseas? A partial SN here may also help with an age estimate.

Nice guns with great history! Hope this is helpful.

 

[rd3rd]

Thanks for the quick response!
This is the information & pics of the "Baby Chief". S/N on butt is 26,xxx & that # is also on the cylinder breach & the inside of the of right side grip has same last 3 S/N. On the cylinder swing arm & front frame, both have #95261. Barrel is just over 1 3/4". No model stamped on frame top. obviously a 5 round revolver with the Flat cylinder release. Believe it is the Round trigger guard. Has coil spring in grip frame & the # V 61 stamped on the rt. side bottom grip frame. Also obviously a 38 S&W Special.
Thanks so much - will give all info on 'supposed' model 10 next. Rick

 

[rd3rd]

Two additional pics of the Baby Chief possibly of interest.
I have the paper work & pics to request archive info from S & W ready to go.

 

[murphydog]

SN 26000 would have shipped in 1952-'53; the information available for these early J frames is a little vague. In a slightly different configuration it became the model 36 in 1957, so no model stamping on this one.

 

[rd3rd]

Mr. Alan - you are probably right about the second gun. My dad made many 'airlifts' after the war. I don't remember him saying anything about a service pistol of his own. He did serve in the European Theater.I believe it's been shortened & has the 38 special cylinder. Will check on that next. Thanks for the great help.

 

[Waidmann]

Judging by the plating, postwar diamond magna grips and the off-center caliber markings, I'll bet your M&P is a remodeled British Service.

Likely reamed to accept Specials. Check the butt, barrel and cylinder serials. A common conversion.

 

[rd3rd]

Here is all the information and pics of my 'Victory' S&W, I'm thinking a Model 10?? The S/N on the butt and on the breach of the cylinder: V 463,6xx. Also stamped on the cylinder face is is a 'P' & 'V' ('V' also stamped on grip frame); and on the bottom flat edge of the barrel is the same S/N. On the cylinder swing hinge and frame front both have #22634. Barrel length is 3 1/2" (surely shortened). Cylinder length is just over 1 1/2" (same as my Baby Chief). Inside the plastic grips is "Fitwell by Marwyn" New York. The cylinder does accept the .38 Spl. but is slightly looser than my Chief. Obviously plated or refinished nickel. On the left side frame just above & behind the cylinder is stamped 'P'. Odd note: on butt between V & S/N appears to be an indentation in the plating like a possible swivel pin hole and on left side frame just below cylinder & above trigger seems to be 2 small plugs???

 

[rd3rd]

Here are a couple more pics of my "Victory" that might be helpful. Thank you ALL for your Very Expert Help. Rick

 

[Muley Gil]

"Odd note: on butt between V & S/N appears to be an indentation in the plating like a possible swivel pin hole and on left side frame just below cylinder & above trigger seems to be 2 small plugs???"

The revolver once had a lanyard loop in the butt and the "plugs" are the ends of the pins that the internal parts pivot upon.

 

[rd3rd]

Just checked my different .38 ammo. The .38 Spl. 110 & 132 Gr fit the Chief cylinder perfectly & the 38 S&W short & long are too large in circumfrence. The 38 S&W short & long fit the Victory cylinder correctly. I guess that help - Shouldn't try to fire the 38 Spl in the Victory!! Maybe I'm learning!! Thanks guys! Rick

 

[rd3rd]

"Odd note: on butt between V & S/N appears to be an indentation in the plating like a possible swivel pin hole and on left side frame just below cylinder & above trigger seems to be 2 small plugs???"

The revolver once had a lanyard loop in the butt and the "plugs" are the ends of the pins that the internal parts pivot upon.

Thanks sir - That info really helps. Hadn't thought about machining holes for assembly. Great catch!! Rick

 

[BUFF]

Many of the .38 S&W revolvers were rechambered to .38 Special by just having the .38 Special chambering reamer run into each of the existing cylinder's charge holes. Thus, many of these guns shoot both cartridges. Try dropping one of your .38 Special cartridges into the bigger gun's cylinder and see if they fit.

The rechambering of many of these guns was done at the same time as the barrel shortening and nickel and chrome plating, and the removal of the butt sling swivel. The sellers believed it would make the revolvers much more marketable to American shooters.

 

[murphydog]

Since the barrel flat, cylinder and frame numbers match this was originally a .38 S & W caliber gun, the brass of which is shorter and wider than the .38 Special. As Buff noted, the .38 Special conversion allows this round to chamber length-wise but the brass will expand and/or split with firing because of the too-large diameter of the charge holes. It should be fine to use the original .38 S & W ammo in it.

V 463000 would have shipped in the fall of 1943, and again before 1957 no model stamping but the later model 10 would have been similar.

 

[DWalt]

Other V-models with close SNs letter showing shipments being late in 1943, so perhaps November or December. It is generally safe to fire standard .38 Special ammunition in converted revolvers. However, fired cases may demonstrate bulging at the rear due to the larger chamber diameter. It is best to stick with standard ammunition, not using any which are headstamped as +P or +P+. Also, grouping capability may not be that good, as the .38 S&W barrel bore diameter (.360") is a few thousandths larger than that used for the .38 Special bullet. Accuracy might be better from using .38 S&W ammunition, but that is more difficult to find and also more expensive than .38 Special ammunition. Unfortunately, the modifications have a significant negative effect upon its monetary value vs. a Victory model in as-issued condition. They may be a serial number stamped on the back corresponding to the original revolver to which they were attached, and that would help date them.

You mention a .38 S&W short and long. To the best of my knowledge, the .38 S&W (.38/200) has only one case length. However the cartridge length may differ with different bullet weights and designs.

By the way - the Magna stocks on the Victory look very nice from what I can see. They are of an earlier design, and have some desirability and value all by themselves, even though they are not correct to the revolver. Please check to see if there is a number stamped on the back side, as it would help date them.

 

[rd3rd]

You guys have NO idea how much your expertise & information has helped me. I thank you for all the help you've given.
On disassembly I also found the same S/N on chamber swing arm facing cylinder. I also noticed the same #22634 on the frame and chamber swing arm is ALSO on the inside of the face plate.
As to the grips the only letters or numbers on them are what I told earlier (Fitwell by Marwyn New York - actually double stamped). Interesting on grip removal face place had another screw (4th).
My reference to the 'short' - 3/4" 38 S&W was because of the Very Shorter case of the 146 gr. 38 S&W verses the 132 gr. 38 SPL case of 1 1/8".
You are absolutely correct about the loose fitting 38 SPL in hte Victory chamber - the 38 S&W fits MUCH better!!
You all have been a wealth of good info. May I ask your 'off-the-cuff' estimate of the value of each (Baby Chief & Victory). Thanks to EACH of YOU! Rick

 

[murphydog]

The Victory is worth perhaps $250 due to the modifications from stock, but with its family history there really is no dollar value. The early Chiefs Special is probably a $600 gun, but if you have documentation of its story it could easily be worth more.

 

[rd3rd]

The Victory is worth perhaps $250 due to the modifications from stock, but with its family history there really is no dollar value. The early Chiefs Special is probably a $600 gun, but if you have documentation of its story it could easily be worth more.

Thank you for that info. Good information. At 66 & since I've had them MANY years, I'm sure I'll give them and all my other guns to my son, son-in-law, & grandson (son-in-law & grandson both ICE Agents) - They will keep them Forever also!! I have enjoyed shooting the Chief; have never shot the Victory - maybe I better. I'm sending the S&W Authenticity Request Form in on both tomorrow so I'll have their records also. Rick