New Model 10's & 64's.

[calmex]

Here is a question that will make people wonder if I'm a total idiot or what, but you must remember I live in the 3rd World and cannot just pop over to the gunstore to check (and they don't sell gun magazines, etc., etc., so I am filthily uneducated in the more modern ways...).
Anyway, here goes; are the new Model 10's and 64's round-butt no matter what the barrel length? Or are the 4-inchers still square-butt?

I ask because I have two options here; I can get this high-ranking Mexican Army Officer to go try to pull one out of their "confiscated guns" bin and register it....sort of a "potluck" thing. He may or may not recognize a 10/64 on sight, he may or may not take the time to actually CHECK, and he sure as hell WON'T know how to check for condition beyond looks. On the other hand, this option is fairly cheap and quick.

Option #2 is to go down to the Mexican Army Gunstore -- the only gunstore in Mexico where you can REALLY buy a gun -- and order one. They list the model 10's and 64's as being in stock, and costing around 750.00 U.S. dollars, the 64 is a little more. These would come with the lock as they'd be new, and thus would allow me to bitch and moan about the friggin' lock which would allow me to feel more like I fit in around here. (I don't have a "lock" gun, and I don't rightly recall ever playing with one -- shows you how out of touch with reality I am.)

I would LIKE to have a round-butt, and although I know I could make one out of a square butt, it would be cool if the gun came that way. So, obviously, if all new production comes with the round-butt, I'd tend to lean towards taking option #2. On the other hand, if it's all square-butt across the board, I guess I'll send my Lt. Colonel into the warehouse with some photos of what I'm looking for and a bit of pre-education as to what to look for and hope for the best.

Anyway, I'd like to know the answer to this one before making any decisions. (In case there are people who don't understand the "favor" system, I would prefer NOT to use my Army Officer for this task necessarily, because then I would owe HIM a favor. However, as I said, it's the quick and cheap option, as opposed to going down to Mexico City and dealing with the formal Army at the "Army Store". One day when I have nothing to do I will write up what one had to do to actually BUY a gun from that place -- the B.S. and Red Tape involved is absolutely mind-boggling. I bought my Glock 25 through them, and still marvel that I actually got it.)

 

[calmex]

Here is a question that will make people wonder if I'm a total idiot or what, but you must remember I live in the 3rd World and cannot just pop over to the gunstore to check (and they don't sell gun magazines, etc., etc., so I am filthily uneducated in the more modern ways...).
Anyway, here goes; are the new Model 10's and 64's round-butt no matter what the barrel length? Or are the 4-inchers still square-butt?

I ask because I have two options here; I can get this high-ranking Mexican Army Officer to go try to pull one out of their "confiscated guns" bin and register it....sort of a "potluck" thing. He may or may not recognize a 10/64 on sight, he may or may not take the time to actually CHECK, and he sure as hell WON'T know how to check for condition beyond looks. On the other hand, this option is fairly cheap and quick.

Option #2 is to go down to the Mexican Army Gunstore -- the only gunstore in Mexico where you can REALLY buy a gun -- and order one. They list the model 10's and 64's as being in stock, and costing around 750.00 U.S. dollars, the 64 is a little more. These would come with the lock as they'd be new, and thus would allow me to bitch and moan about the friggin' lock which would allow me to feel more like I fit in around here. (I don't have a "lock" gun, and I don't rightly recall ever playing with one -- shows you how out of touch with reality I am.)

I would LIKE to have a round-butt, and although I know I could make one out of a square butt, it would be cool if the gun came that way. So, obviously, if all new production comes with the round-butt, I'd tend to lean towards taking option #2. On the other hand, if it's all square-butt across the board, I guess I'll send my Lt. Colonel into the warehouse with some photos of what I'm looking for and a bit of pre-education as to what to look for and hope for the best.

Anyway, I'd like to know the answer to this one before making any decisions. (In case there are people who don't understand the "favor" system, I would prefer NOT to use my Army Officer for this task necessarily, because then I would owe HIM a favor. However, as I said, it's the quick and cheap option, as opposed to going down to Mexico City and dealing with the formal Army at the "Army Store". One day when I have nothing to do I will write up what one had to do to actually BUY a gun from that place -- the B.S. and Red Tape involved is absolutely mind-boggling. I bought my Glock 25 through them, and still marvel that I actually got it.)

 

[ldp4570]

Go with option one just so you don't have to get the lock! Besides he may bring you back a 3" 10/64. By the way all the new ones are round butt.

 

[calmex]

Oh, that would be my dream gun, the 3-inch Model 64. I suppose you ARE right, I should take a chance on getting what I really want instead of getting what I KNOW will be a new Model 64 with the lock.
Alright, I will consider this! Thanks!

 

[photoman]

All of the new Model 64's are round butt and they come with either 3" or 4" barrel. Don't worry about the lock. Just take it out (assuming that's legal in Mexico).

 

[calmex]

There would be no legal problems removing the lock, there is really no "civil liability" B.S. in Mexico in a practical sense.

Guys dig hole in sidewalk 10 feet down looking for sewer pipe. Can't find it, must be over a few feet -- but it's time for lunch. Walk off to eat. Foreign tourist walks into hole which is totally unmarked in any way. Breaks leg, arm, and is mad as hell. Screams "will sue!"

Gathered around hole, people look down and try to figure out how to get him out of there. Someone suggests to call an ambulance. That's going to cost money, someone else mentions, maybe we can haul him up the ladder and put him in a taxi to the hospital.

Big strapping boys do just that, man hollering bloody murder. Screams "will sue! Will sue whole bloody town."

Standing close-by, watching whole thing, can only think; "Yeah? Good luck."

You've got to be REALLY careful down here, not to hurt yourself, or let someone else do it for you because NOBODY is going to give you anything if it happens. All too often, it's someone elses bloody negligence that gets you, but there is still bloody little you can do about it. Legally, anyway.

Oh, you can TRY, of course. But good luck with that.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Not sure what not owing a favor is worth, or what $750 is to you. Around here, it seems like a disgraceful amount of money for a 10 or a 64, particularly a new one, which I would like a LOT less than a decent used one. How bad is it, really, to owe him a favor? (Don't post anything you don't want the world to know.)

A few months ago, I had a VERY well off friend need some assistance in purchasing an only gun. Obviously, price wasn't really a factor. I walked him right by the new stuff and hoped there'd be a decent used gun. I was VERY pleased when we found a nickel 4" M19 with factory target grips for $375. Fortunately, that SB K frame fit his hand. For many others, myself included, the RB is necessary or at least preferable.

Good luck!

 

[Raider]

I would go the Army Officer option if he might request a reasonable favor in return. Good luck. If he picks a good looking revolver chances are that it will be fine.

 

[calmex]

In actual fact, owing this particular guy a favor isn't probably going to be all that bad. He's a decent sort, and the kind of "favor" he'd call in would be for me to treat him like he was some sort of "authority" on small arms in front of his peers. I mean, I have no problem treating him with respect...and I can probably tell all my civvy gun-owner friends in advance that, "look, so-and-so doesn't know much, but if I give you the *wink* at least have the goddamned civility to ACT like you think he does..." and that would be it.

Yeah, thinking about it, I'm going to go with the FAVOR route and see what I can pick up.

The price of guns here in outrageous. There is only ONE place you can legally buy one, and they take MONTHS to get you your gun. There is no competition, so they sell at full manufacturers' retail plus 25% or so. Take it or leave it.

The black-market is tricky, uncertain, and can be actually dangerous if you don't know your way around. And the black-market costs even MORE. Figure 3 to 4 times U.S. retail for the same piece -- but you get it TODAY. If nothing goes wrong.

My Army Officer friend will just walk in, see if they have what I want (provided he can actually recognize it in the pile) and walk out with it for about 200.00 bucks. Then I have to take it, which means no bitching if it isn't exactly what I want. Obviously, no returns.

But what the hell, nothing ventured, nothing gained. And money is harder to find HERE than up there, believe me.

 

[photoman]

What will the gun be used for?

 

[calmex]

Here's my plan, see. I don't mind putting it out in public because I am not planning to do anything illegal, here or there.

I want to start to compete again, in IDPA and NRA Action shooting. With Mexico's gun laws the way they are, I can only have the .38 Special and below. In autos, that means .380. The idea that the .38 Super is legal here in Mexico is dead wrong, it has been prohibited since 1974.

I have a kick-ass Model 14-3 that I rebarreled myself using the proper tools with an original S&W H.B. I bought from Brownell's when they were still selling them. It will more than do for the Iron-sight division in NRA Action Shooting.

I will need a gun for IDPA.

I have researched this rather thoroughly. It will cost me 50.00 bucks, more-or-less, to get a permit from the Mexican Army to transport two guns to the border, and to be able to come back with them. The permit allows me 500 rounds of ammo! I might take a box of .38 Aguila for show, but I'd buy quality Winchester up there.

The ATF requires I fill out a form to be able to get an entry permit from them to bring the two said guns into the country to compete with, and to leave again.

I am 10 hours driving from the Border at Laredo or McAllen. So, I'll come up sometime in 2009 with the intent of shooting in some matches in San Antonio. If everything works out, I might be able to take in a couple of matches a year.

The Mexican Army (which I have questioned closely on this) is okay with the idea. The ATF had no problems the last time I talked to them on the phone.

The San Antonio clubs have what appears on the Internet to be a good solid NRA Action Program, and I'm sure there is some IDPA going on as well. Obviously I'd try to pick a weekend with some IDPA Action on Saturday and NRA Action on Sunday to get the most bang for my buck.

So that's my idea. In case I forgot to mention it more than a few hundred times, I was Manitoba, Canada's first IPSC Director back in the good-old-days, so I used to compete a lot. I have decided I miss it. The last time I shot in competition was in Las Vegas, Nevada in 2003. I came second place in their man-on-man pepper-popper match using a revolver (Smith and Wesson, of course). Oh, yeah, I also shot the Manitoba IPSC Provincial Championships in the summer of 2004 as well, but that was with a 1911. Both times I was borrowing guns. My plan here is to actually BRING my own guns to the party, you see?

Living in Mexico has been a lot of fun, but I miss certain parts of my old life more than I can describe. I feel that this idea gets me back in touch with that life. Mexico (in my humble opinion) will NEVER have an adequate handgun competition program. I have TRIED over the years to get one going, but it just is beyond my abilities. (It took 2 months to set up and get IPSC/Manitoba running BETTER than I've been able to organize here in 10 years.)

I can practise here with my .38's a couple of hundred rounds a week. That will keep me sharp enough for the old-guy-league. I'm 50 now, so I can be an old-guy.

Also, if I time things right, I might run into some of you S&W Forum guys when I finally get around to doing this up there in Texas. Now that would just make MY weekend!

Photo;
My K-38 homemade H.B. . I've showed this photo before, but I'm proud of it, so here it is again.

Photo;
Shooting in Vegas in 2003. My friend and sponsor whom I was visiting owned like 14 different Smiths that were competition quality guns. I chose a few of the top ones (in my opinion) and entered a Steel Challenge match at I believe the Red Rock Canyon range a week before the man-on-man event I had gone up there to shoot in, and "test-fired in competition" the guns I though would work for me. I ended up chosing a 625 for the man-on-man. Here I was using a 627 V-8 in their Steel Challenge. The whole experience was GREAT fun, and I'd like to go back as soon as the economy straightens out. Too broke right now, though.

 

[photoman]

Nice Model 14. Too bad you can't import this 4" heavy barrel "Dayton" Model 14 I've got.

p.s. I bet those ex-military friends of yours had something to say about all that hair.

p.s.s. Watch out for that Winchester ammo. I've had the brass split after just a few reloads with the white box .38 Special +P lately.

 

[RON in PA]

All S&W revolvers for the last approximately 10 years are round butt.

Suggestion: Educate your Army buddy as to what a model 10 or 64 looks like, download a picture from the S&W home page or one of the many photos here. Tell him about the model number in the yoke.

 

[Hannibal Barca]

Originally posted by calmex:
Option #2 is to go down to the Mexican Army Gunstore -- the only gunstore in Mexico where you can REALLY buy a gun -- and order one. They list the model 10's and 64's as being in stock, and costing around 750.00 U.S. dollars, the 64 is a little more. These would come with the lock as they'd be new, and thus would allow me to bitch and moan about the friggin' lock which would allow me to feel more like I fit in around here. (I don't have a "lock" gun, and I don't rightly recall ever playing with one -- shows you how out of touch with reality I am.)

I would LIKE to have a round-butt, and although I know I could make one out of a square butt, it would be cool if the gun came that way.

Hi Cal.

If you already have registered handguns in Mexico, the Mexican Army gun store won't sell you a new one. You need that a friend who doesn't have registered handgun buy it and later re-sell to you and go to the nearest Army facility to make the owner change (cambio de propietario).

And, yes as Ron in Pa says all the new model 64 (and almost all S&W models) are round butt.

I used to think you were interested in a model 67 instead a model 64. What does it make change your mind?


Hannibal Barca.

 

[calmex]

Hi Hannibal.

Well, you know, a Model 67 with the round-butt would certainly trump a Model 64. I don't think I changed my mind, I think that when I saw the Model 64 listed in the on-line inventory for the Army Store, I thought "Well, that would do and it would be fairly easy to go after...".

Now, though, I think I am pretty much convinced that I should just have my pal go and check out a nice confiscated Model 10, 64, or 67 from the dump-bin and register one of those.

Any of the three can be round-butted if they don't come that way, and any of the three will be great for IDPA. The 6-inch K-38 H.B. I already have is too long a barrel for IDPA, I need a 4-incher or a 3-incher now. I used to have an old Model 10-7 and a Model 64-3, and I sold them both last year in a moment of insanity. Both were square butts, and why the hell I didn't keep one is beyond me, except for perhaps the fact that I was heavily into NRA Action Shooting and had not yet arrived at the conclusion that I could just as easily shoot IDPA in Texas as I could NRA. Anyway, it's an excuse to look for a new gun, which is always welcome.

I had heard (perhaps incorrectly) that the Army Store had changed their policy, and would now sell you a gun even though you already had one registered, but no more than one a year. Perhaps I have heard incorrectly, as you know, there are MANY rumors about what the SEDENA is doing or planning on doing that often turn out to be completely incorrect. Anyway, after hearing that the Army was lightening up on gun purchases from the Dcam store, I thought "What the hell? I'll just buy myself a new one."

Until the economy straightens out a bit and tourism returns, I won't be in a position to buy anything right away anyways, but it is still fun to plan the purchase!
Cheers!