New Model 3-need some help.

[mmaher94087]

Not good news; both the hammer and the trigger have been messed with. Please don't shoot the currier. A re-weld and cut is needed on both.

 

[SergeantEllingsworth]

Not good news; both the hammer and the trigger have been messed with. Please don't shoot the currier. A re-weld and cut is needed on both.

I may just buy a new trigger and hammer. What's the giveaway on them? The trigger IS unusual, but I'm not noticing the hammer issues.

 

[SergeantEllingsworth]

Japanese Contract?

UPDATE; after stripping the bad finish job, I identified what MAY be the Anchor stamp from the Japanese Contract provenance referenced earlier. The mark is the top loop, the cross bar, and a portion of the shaft, so either the stamp was light, or the years have worn away the rest...OR I'm losing my mind. All three are possible.
Pictures attached.

 

[S&WsRsweet]

It does have anchor characteristics although I'm no expert .

 

[mmaher94087]

Sgt., I guess it could be chalked up to 50 years of messing with these; the hammer just doesn't look right in post #20. A quick check (with the revolver assembled) is to slowly pull the hammer to the full cock position starting with the hammer fully in the fired position. At about 1/16" movement there should be a pronounced 'click' as this is the safety notch; the firing pin will be retracted into the recoil bushing. The second 'click' will be the half cock where the cylinder spins freely. The third click will be full cock and the cylinder will lock at that instant.

 

[SergeantEllingsworth]

Sgt., I guess it could be chalked up to 50 years of messing with these; the hammer just doesn't look right in post #20. A quick check (with the revolver assembled) is to slowly pull the hammer to the full cock position starting with the hammer fully in the fired position. At about 1/16" movement there should be a pronounced 'click' as this is the safety notch; the firing pin will be retracted into the recoil bushing. The second 'click' will be the half cock where the cylinder spins freely. The third click will be full cock and the cylinder will lock at that instant.

Given that info, there is something seriously wrong; I've posted a pic below. Fully depressed, the hammer rests completely forward. At the first click, the hammer is retracted in to the bushing, but the top latch is still held shut by the hammer. At the second click, the hammer is fully cocked. There are only two clicks. I may just end up buying a replacement hammer from the Uberti Frontier, though I'm not sure if spending $95.00 on a part is wise if it won't fit.
As for the trigger, it doesn't look malformed, but it absolutely ISN'T the same trigger I see on other Model 3's. Curious.

 

[model3sw]

I may just buy a new trigger and hammer. What's the giveaway on them? The trigger IS unusual, but I'm not noticing the hammer issues.

Hi, Sarge. In agreement with Mike, here. At a glance ... from what I can tell from the pix, the sear end of the trigger looks too short, as if it had been trimmed. Therein could be the main problem.

I know we've made you run the gamut and you've done well. You've got nothing to lose here so, soak the hammer in white vinegar for a day or so. Rinse with water, dry off well (blow dry if you have compressed air) then give it the "once over" with a soft brass cleaning brush to finish the clean up. Careful here ... white vinegar removes blue as well as rust but being the hammer was originally fire (color) case hardened, it won't hurt it. Also I cannot detect any visible case color remaining.

Next take a well focused picture of the backside of the hammer where the notches are. A couple of angle shots, too, looking into the sharp side of the notch. When you're doing this look at each "notch" with a jeweler's loupe. If you can see any type of file marks or sand scratches, someone has tried to repair it in the past.

The use of a file is the kiss of death on these hammer. You will see prominent evidence / striations from even the finest file. If resharpened with the proper India stone(s) there would be no visible evidence of the repair, if done properly.

The sequence photo you posted is the correct sequence but the engagement fit of the tail, sear-end, of the hammer is not meshing precisely with the notches.

Usually, if either the hammer or the trigger is screwed up, it's almost a given that the other part is screwed, too.

If you or anyone else who is reading, can definitely state they have purchased a Uberti (or other manufacture clone) Hammer and Trigger to excellent results, I'd like to know. I've never tried messing with any of the reproduction parts on a original Model 3 in any variation.

Oh, I don't see the rebound spring in any of your pix. The rebound spring is really a non-issue on this piece because it will serve no purpose toward a restorative repair here (besides that, the Target Models were manufactured such that they do not have a rebound spring).

I'm presuming you just need this to function properly as is already too far gone for a restoration to be a reasonable consideration.

PS: On a model 3 there really is no half-notch like a Colt. There is the fired position (hammer down or rebounded as the case may be) the next notch is for opening and reloading ( probably a 1/10th notch, if that much ), then the full back, firing position notch.

On the VERY long shot that you see no file / sand marks on the back (engagement) side of the hammer, the major problem (besides springs and cylinder stop) might just be the trigger.

Best Regards, Sal Raimondi

 

[mmaher94087]

Don't buy the Uberti hammer. I believe it was Dave Chicoine that stated that it didn't work. Photo two (just above) shows an incorrect trigger sear to hammer sear fit. As Sal said; you may only need the trigger (better photo). The trigger sear should fully seat in the half cock notch shown in that photo and the barrel latch should open.

The 'click' sequence (hammer sears) I posted above was from a Japanese "anchor marked" revolver in the 25,000 serial range; yours is in the 26K range. When I checked another Japanese 'artillery marked" revolver in the 31K range; the 'click' sequence was the same as your revolver. I learned something new as I thought they were all the same.

 

[seinen]

UPDATE; after stripping the bad finish job, I identified what MAY be the Anchor stamp from the Japanese Contract provenance referenced earlier. The mark is the top loop, the cross bar, and a portion of the shaft, so either the stamp was light, or the years have worn away the rest...OR I'm losing my mind.

You're correct. This marking has all the indications of being a small Japanese-applied naval anchor. Congrats!

C/

 

[SergeantEllingsworth]

Two 5's or two C's?

Clarifying question;
Can anyone identify the marking on the picture below? I've thought it was a scratch for the last few weeks, but on closer inspection it looks like two overlapping number 5's or cursive C's. Does anyone know the provenance of this mark? Does it have any significance to the pistol's Japanese Contract heritage, or is it more generic?
I appreciate any help.