New model No.3 advice please..

Vbull

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I'm new to antique S&W Revolvers and just bought an early New Model No.3 at auction, Jap contract gun in 44 Russian with anchor on the grip. It has timing issues which I'm hoping to fix and the cylinder number does not match the frame but I have two questions. I have to pull back the hammer slightly to open the gun, is this correct and second question is, if I continue to pull back the hammer a tiny bit more it clicks into what I assume is a safety notch on the sear, is this also correct or do I have more issues than I thought ?
 
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Welcome aboard. To open the top break, the hammer should be placed in the half cock position. The latch can then be lifted and the barrel broken open.

What number is your mis-matched cylinder? I'm looking for SN 25625. My cylinder is SN 31074.
 
Thanks for the welcome. OK, so the first notch or half cock allows me to open the gun which mine does so no problem there but when the hammer is in this position the cylinder free wheels with no cylinder stop clicking, this can't be correct can it ? By the way, my cylinder is not the one you need.
 
That is correct, the cylinder will not click like on a Colt.

For some reason it seems to be a common occurrence for the Japanese shipped NM #3 pistols to have mismatched cylinders. How far apart are the numbers? I'm willing to bet the cylinder you have is also from a Japanese shipped pistol.
 
The cylinder should spin freely when the hammer is in the half cock position so as NOT to break the cylinder stop. So far, your revolver sounds like it is functioning correctly. Does the cylinder lock at the instant the hammer reaches full cock? Slowly pull the hammer to the full cock notch; too fast a pull will cause momentum to spin the cylinder enough to lock. Perfect timing will have the cylinder lock a split-second before the hammer engages the full cock notch. Because of age (wear 'n' tear) the timing is usually less that perfect but acceptable as long as it locks the cylinder.
 
I'm new to antique S&W Revolvers and just bought an early New Model No.3 at auction, Jap contract gun in 44 Russian with anchor on the grip. It has timing issues which I'm hoping to fix and the cylinder number does not match the frame but I have two questions. I have to pull back the hammer slightly to open the gun, is this correct and second question is, if I continue to pull back the hammer a tiny bit more it clicks into what I assume is a safety notch on the sear, is this also correct or do I have more issues than I thought ?

Post a picture of a side view of the revolver with the hammer completely seated, as when fired. If the hammer has been boogered (usually sharpened with a file, that ruins the hammer and timing and lockup) by the position of how the trigger sits in the housing. This make the trigger sit a bit more forward than if untouched or if stop has been professionally sharpened.

Usually, once the stops begin to wear they can been sharpened (or re-sharpened) just once, with the correct India stones. A file (no matter how fine) used in an attempt to sharpen the stops is a kiss of death to the hammer ... and the trigger (back end of the trigger is the sear) if operated after the hammer is filed.
 
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Thanks for all the help. So far it looks like this gun is working more or less as it should then. I slowly pulled the hammer back like you said and the cylinder locked up perfect but if I pull the hammer back quick, two chambers fail to lock up tight, they go past the notch. The only question I have now is that the half cock position comes on real early, so early that the latch rim catches on the nose of the hammer so I'm guessing this is wrong ? Is there an easy fix for this, I'm guessing not.....?
 
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Thanks for all the help. So far it looks like this gun is working more or less as it should then. I slowly pulled the hammer back like you said and the cylinder locked up perfect but if I pull the hammer back quick, two cylinders fail to lock up tight, they go past the notch. The only question I have now is that the half cock position comes on real early, so early that the latch rim catches on the nose of the hammer so I'm guessing this is wrong ? Is there an easy fix for this, I'm guessing not.....?


Yes, that's wrong No, there is no "easy" fix.

When you get serious and post a few pictures, send me a PM. Until then, I'm out. Good luck with that.

PS: If you remove the side plate you will likely see a poorly filed stops on the hammer.
 
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X2. model3sw is absolutely correct. The cylinder stop is trigger activated and if either the hammer or trigger sear has been messed with then the timing will be off and the cylinder lock-up affected.
 


I hope you guys can see this, just one test picture for now if it work I'll put up more. Anyway, the hammer is in the fired position...
 

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Same boat.

I'm extremely interested in seeing your photos, I'm in the process of acquiring a New Model 3 that has some similar problems, ESPECIALLY with the half cock. Once it's in my hands, I'll be looking to apply some of the same fixes you have to pursue. Please keep us posted!
 

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That picture came thru fine vbull.Welcome to the forum by the way .You will find a wealth of knowledgeable folks here and good contacts also. Keep us updated and post some more pictures when you can.
 
Because the hammer and trigger parts are difficult to source; it may be necessary to weld the sears and re-cut the notches. Vbull's #3 doesn't appear to be messed with; while the photo of the trigger on SergeantEllingsworth's makes the 'messing' obvious. I'll bet that SE's cylinder doesn't lock with the hammer down.
 
Because the hammer and trigger parts are difficult to source; it may be necessary to weld the sears and re-cut the notches. Vbull's #3 doesn't appear to be messed with; while the photo of the trigger on SergeantEllingsworth's makes the 'messing' obvious. I'll bet that SE's cylinder doesn't lock with the hammer down.

On this topic that Mike (Mmaher) presents, test if the cylinder locks up properly as it sits now, in the picture.

Some notes:

Non target models have a rebounding hammer. Factory Target models do NOT have a rebounding hammer. Yours should have a rebounding hammer. Therein, may be a point of misunderstanding about clicks and notches.

VBull, when the hammer is all the way down, pull the trigger and push the hammer forward and release to see if the rebound spring is working properly. You may have to slightly pull the hammer back a hair before you can push it forward (while pulling the trigger), perhaps, not.

Hammer should spring back freely to current position. At this position, it is designed NOT to unlatch (open). Note: the hammer should not push forward without first pulling the trigger.

Then, pull hammer a slight distance (about 2mms) back. It should click into a position where you should have the opening notch.

If that's OK, take one more picture (same as the other side view you posted) with the hammer all the way back to the lock / firing position.

While you are pulling the hammer back notice if the trigger position is more forward or further to the rear of where it now sits.

Notice if the cylinder is locking (or attempting to lock) in place with hammer back or if it has rotational play, or skips off the cylinder stop arm (the little "popper upper" on the inside of the bottom strap).
 
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Because the hammer and trigger parts are difficult to source; it may be necessary to weld the sears and re-cut the notches. Vbull's #3 doesn't appear to be messed with; while the photo of the trigger on SergeantEllingsworth's makes the 'messing' obvious. I'll bet that SE's cylinder doesn't lock with the hammer down.

You're right. In fact, the whole beastie has tuning issues. I picked it up for a SONG, but it's gonna need to be re worked before it can ever fire again. The cylinder spins feeling at almost every stage in the cycle of function, the half cock doesn't work, and it just needs some overall attention. I'm beginning to think that everything I saved in upfront costs will go in to restoration.
 

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Sorry if I wasted your time here with all you guys answering my questions but a friend offered me a good price for this gun which I accepted so that's that, it's gone to a new home. I should be collecting a slightly later NMN3 DA this weekend, hopefully it won't have any issues but if it does, I'll be back...
 
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