NEW NRA DEFENSIVE PISTOL CLASS & CLASS OF INSTRUCTORS

[Moonman]

NRA Defensive Pistol Class Module

1) Will be TAUGHT by an NRA "ADVANCED" PISTOL INSTRUCTOR.

2) YOU Must have NRA Basic Pistol or First Steps Pistol already completed, this IS NOT a stand alone class module.



NRA CERTIFIED ADVANCED PISTOL INSTRUCTOR REQUIREMENTS.


1) The ONLY INSTRUCTORS who may teach the Defensive Pistol Module.

2) MUST PASS the APPLICATION PROCESS of CORE REQUIREMENTS.

3) Must hold already an instructor rating in PERSONAL PROTECTION OUTSIDE THE HOME, which also means you already have Personal Protection INSIDE The HOME and Basic Pistol to have completed that courses requirements.

4) NRA ADVANCED PISTOL INSTRUCTORS should know the material in the lesson plan and handbook so well that they can present the lesson and teach a skill on the range with nothing more than POCKET NOTES.

5) APPLICANTS MUST also have completed sufficient additional advanced firearms training such as, "Gunsite", "Thunder Ranch", "LFI", "MAG", or "NRA LEAD"

6) Those who continue to seek VALID sources of information and practice Valid shooting techniques WILL BE FAVORED.

7) APPLICATION MUST INCLUDE, Resume copies of your advanced training certificates, AND POSSIBLY other documentation regarding your ADVANCED TRAINING, the NRA might request additional information or TO SPEAK WITH YOU, regardless if you're approved or not, the application fee is NON-REFUNDABLE.

8) Those selected for the rating of NRA CERTIFIED ADVANCED PISTOL INSTRUCTOR will become a member of a VERY SELECT GROUP and must practice the highest standards every time they handle a firearm or conduct a course. The above per a letter from the NRA Training Dept. dated June 5, 2012.

 

[Moonman]

Anyone have any comments concerning the new NRA DEFENSIVE PISTOL COURSE?

Any comments about the NEW INSTRUCTORS TITLES AND THEIR HIGHER QUALIFICATION STANDARDS?

NRA CERTIFIED "ADVANCED" PISTOL INSTRUCTOR.

 

[photoman]

I don't know anything about it but it sounds like it might be an interesting class (guessing from the instructor qualifications).

I think section (5) and (6) are too vague.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

NRA's course, NRA's rules. Sounds like they are trying to make a reasonable effort at the very difficult task of restricting the instructors to those who are competent, while actually ending up with some instructors.

I disagree with item 4. A checklist (is that "pocket notes?") is a good idea to ensure that all critical points are covered.

 

[Chuck1217]

Model, I think it just means they should know the material pretty much- memorized- rather than having to teach out of a book, ya know? Like, the pocket notes would just be to keep the subjects in order, and as you said, be sure they didn't leave something out.
I agree some of it is vague- and I would also point out, there doesn;t seem to be any experience needed, other than taking the classes themselves. I know you don't necessarily have to have been shot at to be able to teach, but...sounds like if you take 3-4 courses you're qualified..? Or am I missing something?

 

[Chuck Jones]

I think they want a classification of instructors equal to the instructors in the top tier of action shooting or defensive shooting schools.

The current certification of "Pistol Instructor" clearly doesn't do that, and I'm speaking as one myself.

I mean let's face it, as action shooting evolved the NRA was getting left behind. I think this is a good thing and it'll give us more visibility and credibility in the world of action shooting.

/c

 

[photoman]

I think they want a classification of instructors equal to the instructors in the top tier of action shooting or defensive shooting schools.

The current certification of "Pistol Instructor" clearly doesn't do that, and I'm speaking as one myself.

I mean let's face it, as action shooting evolved the NRA was getting left behind. I think this is a good thing and it'll give us more visibility and credibility in the world of action shooting.

/c

Defensive Pistol shooting and action shooting are apples and army tanks in my book...

 

[cshoff]

I think they are probably going to have some disgruntled instructors on their hands. The truth is, there are a number of very competent, very capable instructors out there who would probably be a good fit for this discipline, but who have never attended any of the high-priced, halfway-across-the-country training facilities they have listed in the requirements. A trip to Thunder Ranch, for example, could easily cost a person 4 or $5k by the time you figure in travel expenses, lodging, food, ammunition, and the cost of the class itself - that's pretty significant money for many of the "average Joe's" that already have the rest of the requirements met, and money that the vast majority of them are likely never going to have at their disposal.

With that said, I did inquire with the NRA Training Dept. as to what other schools/instructors/courses they would consider "adequate" to meet "requirement #5" and they said that the list provided is not all-inclusive and they would consider any other training on a case by case basis, so they are leaving some wiggle room. The problem is, they specify on the application that applicants should send copies of Course Completion Certificates for any "advanced" courses they have attended, and there are a number of "top tier" instructors out there who simply do not issue certificates at the end of a class. I've taken two such classes myself, in fact, and I was told to "send along what you have and we will look into it". So I'm not sure how that will end up.

I do know that I have already talked to two other instructors, both whom meet all of the requirements (except for #5), both are Certified Law Enforcement instructors in multiple disciplines, yet it doesn't appear as though they will be able to qualify for this rating at this point due to #5 and how cost-prohibitive it is for both of them. I'm not sure how much sense it makes that these guys are teaching our law enforcement officers defensive shooting skills and tactics, yet that isn't sufficient to satisfy this particular requirement to teach civilians an "advanced defensive pistol" class.

Personally, I would like to see the process for selecting instructors for this discipline changed. I would like to see an application process similar to the above, but instead of requiring "advanced training" - which, quite frankly, may not be worth anything anyway, depending on the individual who took the training - I would rather see them invite accepted applicants to a "field day" where they not only have to prove their ability with a firearm, but also have to prove their ability to actually TEACH. It would be much better, IMHO, to "weed out" those who can't make the cut in person, rather than to attempt to do it all on paper through the mail.

 

[WIKD]

I saw this class and thought it might be exactly what I was looking for in a NRA course. However I still don't have the instructor in PPOH as it seems like classes for that have dried up in this area, at least the last few times I've looked. And of course #5 would bounce me also as the classes I have taken have not issued certificates. I'm not saying its impossible but is difficult to get the required credentials without putting out a good deal of cash.
I would agree with cshoff that a field day would allow them to decide whether an applicant fit the bill or not when it comes to both handling the firearm and teaching others to do the same.

 

[Gunzuki]

Moonman I know we live close each other ( I am in Medina) are you going to be teaching it? If so when and how do I sign up? I have passed my basic pistol course ( got my ccw). But would really like more/some defensive training in a class that doesn't have 89 people all shooting at the same time!. Scary REALLY!!!

 

[hobby-gunsmith]

NRA defensive pistol class

The requirements to acquire an additional discipline rating to your NRA certification for defensive pistol instructor is the PPOTH instructor certification. It appears in central Florida, the classes are not available or the instructors are not teaching the class for PPOTH. To become an instructor in this discipline, the instructor is required to attend the student's two day class and attend another two days for the Instructor certification. The total cost of the classes are about $500.00 plus ammo, drive time and other related costs for the two classes. I check an area of 100 miles from my zip code and found none of the classes offered for this particular class. I have the necessary background requirements for the the certification with the exception of the PPOTH discipline. They sure make it hard for you to attain the certification without any of the classes offered to satisfy the requirements and not so costly. I am sure there are other instructors that feel the same way

Nick

 

[LenS]

Interesting!

I teach PPIH and PPOH and can tell you that demand for the classes just doesn't make it financially practical to even offer them. I'm teaching PPIH this Sunday and have ONE student signed up! I'm teaching PPOH next month and have ZERO students signed up so far.

It cost a lot to run these classes (NRA material, S/H-they rape us on this, rental of a classroom, range use fees, asst instructor if we have more than a few students, etc.) and I lose my shirt spending 10 hours (the way I teach PPIH, I add material/time) or 15 hrs (PPOH) unless I have at least a handful of students. But once i commit to teach a class, even if there is only 1 student, I will not cancel the class.

I've talked with other PPIH/PPOH instructors in my area and they report no/almost no interest from students. I'm not sure when/if I will offer them again in the near future.

I also wonder if this new class will bring in students to make it worth teaching!

 

[Moonman]

This may be becoming more and more of a BOTCHED PIPE DREAM of some NRA staff member.

Looks like too many Qualifications and then THE SUBJECTIVE INTERPRETATION of them by NRA staff members of who qualifies.

Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Sig Sauer Academy, MAS, T.D.I., Blackwater or whatever it's called now and other facilities already exist. They already have excellent classes, staffs and instructors.

Many people just will not pay for EXPENSIVE NRA COURSES and NRA Instructors need STUDENTS to be able to pay the bills and overhead.

I was looking to just TAKE the class NOT TEACH IT and I noticed the only one advertised was at the NRA'S home in Fairfax, Va. The class is for LADIES ONLY.

Massad Ayoob teaches a course every year over in Indiana that I might look into taking. The gun range that it's taught at has a retired LEO is also one of the best S&W Gunsmiths in the country.


GUNZUKI,

I will not be looking to teach this course, but you might look to D&D FIREARMS INSTRUCTORS LLC on-line. (Northeast Ohio, Akron, Massillon, Canton, Ashland, areas.

He is now a retired LEO from being a longtime LE firearms instructor. He has an 8 hour Tactical Handgun course that I really enjoyed. He also teaches Tactical Shotgun and Tactical Rifle. Private training sessions can also be arranged with him.

 

[Gunzuki]

Thanx Moonman

 

[cshoff]

Interesting!

I teach PPIH and PPOH and can tell you that demand for the classes just doesn't make it financially practical to even offer them. I'm teaching PPIH this Sunday and have ONE student signed up! I'm teaching PPOH next month and have ZERO students signed up so far.

It cost a lot to run these classes (NRA material, S/H-they rape us on this, rental of a classroom, range use fees, asst instructor if we have more than a few students, etc.) and I lose my shirt spending 10 hours (the way I teach PPIH, I add material/time) or 15 hrs (PPOH) unless I have at least a handful of students. But once i commit to teach a class, even if there is only 1 student, I will not cancel the class. If it is the same material I am already offering in my proprietary defensive pistol class, then I'm not sure how much value there would be in actually getting the credentials anyway.

I've talked with other PPIH/PPOH instructors in my area and they report no/almost no interest from students. I'm not sure when/if I will offer them again in the near future.

I also wonder if this new class will bring in students to make it worth teaching!

To me, the biggest hurdle with both of those classes (PPITH & PPOTH) is the expense of paying an attorney or qualified LEO to conduct the legal portion of the class. By the time you add $150 - $200 just to pay this person, you have to have at least several students enrolled to make it worth while, not to mention the fact that you then have to coordinate your scheduling with this attorney or LEO. That said, we've had pretty good luck getting enrollment for these classes over the past few years. I've already held 2 of each class this year with good enrollment each time, and I have one more of each class on my course schedule later this year, not to mention the instructor classes we will be holding in each discipline, so at least for now, it is still worthwhile to schedule these classes.

As to the new "advanced defensive pistol" class, I was told by the NRA training dept. that there will NOT be a legal portion to this class, so there will not be a need to find an attorney or LEO to conduct any portion of the class (which is a definite plus in my book). I would really like to get a look at the lesson plan for this course before I start jumping through a bunch of hoops trying to obtain the instructor rating. If it's the same material I am already offering in my proprietary defensive pistol class, then I'm not sure how much value the instructor rating would have anyway.

 

[LenS]

To me, the biggest hurdle with both of those classes (PPITH & PPOTH) is the expense of paying an attorney or qualified LEO to conduct the legal portion of the class. By the time you add $150 - $200 just to pay this person, you have to have at least several students enrolled to make it worth while, not to mention the fact that you then have to coordinate your scheduling with this attorney or LEO. That said, we've had pretty good luck getting enrollment for these classes over the past few years. I've already held 2 of each class this year with good enrollment each time, and I have one more of each class on my course schedule later this year, not to mention the instructor classes we will be holding in each discipline, so at least for now, it is still worthwhile to schedule these classes.

As to the new "advanced defensive pistol" class, I was told by the NRA training dept. that there will NOT be a legal portion to this class, so there will not be a need to find an attorney or LEO to conduct any portion of the class (which is a definite plus in my book). I would really like to get a look at the lesson plan for this course before I start jumping through a bunch of hoops trying to obtain the instructor rating. If it's the same material I am already offering in my proprietary defensive pistol class, then I'm not sure how much value the instructor rating would have anyway.

My advantage is that I am a LEO and actually teach a "MA Gun Law" (how to stay out of trouble) course already. So I don't have to pay anyone for that portion of PPIH/PPOH. In spite of that, it still costs me ~1/3 of what I charge just for NRA materials/shipping & handling/classroom & range rental/assistant instructor.

 

[cshoff]

My advantage is that I am a LEO and actually teach a "MA Gun Law" (how to stay out of trouble) course already. So I don't have to pay anyone for that portion of PPIH/PPOH. In spite of that, it still costs me ~1/3 of what I charge just for NRA materials/shipping & handling/classroom & range rental/assistant instructor.

Until the NRA changed the requirement in 2011, we were able to teach the legal portion of both classes as Missouri CCW instructors being how we were "authorized by the state" to teach that portion of law. Now the person must be "licensed by the state" (Missouri does not "license" CCW instructors), or an attorney, or a POST certified LEO of intermediate rank or higher. No biggie as I know plenty of attorneys and LEO's that will do the legal portion of the class, but it does add more expense and makes it more challenging to schedule these classes.

I do think it's kinda funny how the State of Missouri REQUIRES us to teach a complete chapter of Weapons law and a complete chapter of Defense of Justification laws, plus we cover additional federal weapons laws as well as covering some federal and state case law (about 3.5 - 4 hours in total) to students who wish to apply for a Missouri CCW permit, yet the NRA won't trust us to teach a simple 1 hour lesson that is really just a summary of some state and federal laws.