New S&W M&P C.O.R.E. with Trijicon RMR Adjustable LED

[CB3]

So, that was using the RDS and not the irons, right?

Previous negative statement about RDS in first video now retracted?

Note the slightly low-left grouping. That's from trigger/grip control which will wander that direction with a high round count unless you pay close attention in all strings.

Next impressive video will have you bring the gun up from low ready, shoot three in a vertical string chest to head and stop. Use a shot timer. Repeat twice for a total of nine shots. Look at your (defensive) grouping as well as your times.

Then do it using irons only with the RDS turned off on a new target. Compare groupings and time.

That should really make you smile, and it will only be 18 rounds.

 

[Herb686]

Had my 5" Core Pro with RMR 07 for several weeks. To "co-witness", the dot is at the bottom of the window. Don't really know why one would want to co-witness. Just like my scoped rifle with its illuminated dot - put the dot where you want the bullet to go and it goes there! I've only shot plate rack at 25 yds but that works and works fast. I'm using for 3 gun matches.

 

[mesinge2]

So, that was using the RDS and not the irons, right?

Previous negative statement about RDS in first video now retracted?

That was all the RDS. I am very happy with it now!

 

[Ron AZ]

Don't really know why one would want to co-witness.

Co-witness just means that the base of the RMR is not so high (or "iron" sights too low) that the RMR base blocks fully viewing and lining up front and rear "iron" sights through the RMR window in a normal "iron" sighting manner. So you can witness both sighting methods independently.

The intent is to maintain full capability to use the iron sights alone independent of the red dot. It has nothing to do with the red dot "lining up" with the iron sights, although they should normally be close when viewing the red dot straight on from the back … not so much if you are hurrying a shot with the red dot and don't have time to get good alignment.

Why want co-witnessing? For example one reason is that I use mine as an open carry gun while I am bowhunting. I don't want to have to deal with an animal problem (bear, cougar, etc), find the red dot died, and not be able to fully view the sights as back up. Another reason is that you can use the iron sights as a visual location marker to more quickly acquire the red dot sight while in awkward or changing position, allowing possibility for faster first shot.

On my Pro CORE with Trijicon RMR 06 I can achieve a normal full iron sight picture through the RMR window. I have one and tried the Burris FF III and the base was slightly too high to allow FULLY viewing a normal sight picture with the iron sights … the view is somewhat compromised, ie. a PARTIAL co-witness. Others have posted pictures in older threads of how much of the iron sights you can see with the Burris FF III. Mine looked the same.

Of course, if you don't plan on using the iron sights much you may be fine with partial co-witness.

 

[mesinge2]

I had never used a RDS and I was using it with a flawed technique. Your advice was great and now I am doing much better with it.

All the advice you guys gave was invaluable and it helped greatly at the range. Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

[Magload]

I don't know what you are calling partial co-witness with the Delta Point mine on my 40 CORE shows the full iron sights I just went in and looked at it. I know there are others one the board that have the same set up maybe they will speak up. In fact when the open sights are lighed up for the shot the top of the front blade and top of the rear sight sit almost in the middle of the Delta Points window. Don

 

[Ron AZ]

Ok Don. Trust you on that. As I said, I did not get to try them. Went by base thickness mesurements from Leupold so maybe my data was off. The new Pro was supposed to have the thickest base. And the older Delta Point was supposed to witness better. I deleted that info from my previous post.

 

[CB3]

Co-witness has another advantage: you know your RDS and iron sights when lined up together have the same point of impact on the target.

Most RDS come fairly well centered and therefore close to having the dot be about where the properly aligned iron sights would place the bullet on the target.

However, not all RDS are adjusted correctly. Just because you can see the dot in the window doesn't mean the accuracy of the dot is maximized. When sights are co-witnessed, you get maximum accuracy.

This may not matter too much shooting large silhouette targets at close range. It will matter when you start using your red dot to hit targets at 30, 50 or 100 yards. You certainly don't want your windage to be off, and having elevation the same as your irons doesn't hurt.

Now, as to the actual amount of irons visible through the RDS window, I believe lower 1/4 to no more than 1/3 of the window should be blocked by your irons when they are properly aligned. Any more than that and you are wasting part of the RDS's advantage of having a more forgiving sight picture through the window.

Why co-witness? Better accuracy. Redundant capability. More confidence you can make a difficult or unusual, even long range, shot. That's why I set mine up to co-witness. There are no advantages to not co-witnessing other than saving a little time and effort.

 

[Magload]

Ok Don. Trust you on that. As I said, I did not get to try them. Went by base thickness mesurements from Leupold so maybe my data was off. The new Pro was supposed to have the thickest base. And the older Delta Point was supposed to witness better. I deleted that info from my previous post.

You so right that was the missing data. I have the old model the Pro wasn't shipping yet and I also wanted the small 3 MOA dot the old model has. Don