NEW S&W MANUFACTURING PROCESS

[gdbabin]

I ordered 2 1911s in Dec09 (DK&MP) through the military sales program. I've yet to receive either. In following-up I've learned my pistols will not deliver until August or so.

The reason stated by David Holt, their Military Sales VP is that the company is in the midst of changing their manufacturing process to include programming new milling machines and converting to SS exclusively on components previously constructed from carbon steel. He says the changes are to increase reliability among other things.

I've searched the web for any data on this but can't find any.

Two issues:

1. Has anyone else experienced the extreme delay in delivery through the Military Sales program?

2. Does anyone know more of the manufacturing changes and the likely impact? This concerns me as the guns delivered after the changes will not be the same as the ones on the street now and will not have an established track record for performance and reliability, not to mention they will be virtual prototypes.

Guy

 

[Redsoxfan]

new process

They are transferring amm letal gun production to Houlton, Maine in order to clear more room in Springfield for the M&P series

In conjunction with the move, they are retooling Houlton with new CNC machinery to increase quality for the metal guns

Production has been delayed because of this, but ultimately should increase quality and decrease tolerances.

 

[~tc~]

BS - all 1911's have been built in Houlton for at least the last 3 years

 

[Redsoxfan]

to the BS response

yes, you are right, they (1911) have been made in Houlton. I did not say otherwise.

what I said was the sw9 & other metal frames (TSW) will ALSO be made in Houlton as soon as the retooling is complete.

Please reserve your judgement on others' statements if you do not have the mental capacity to understand what they are saying.

My Brother is working on the retooling process as we speak. He has been bouncing back and forth between springfield and Houlton for the last three months, as HE IS THE PROJECT MANAGER IN CHARGE OF THE RETOOLING!!

I think he understands what they are doing, and as such, so do I.

 

[Camster]

yes, you are right, they (1911) have been made in Houlton. I did not say otherwise.

what I said was the sw9 & other metal frames (TSW) will ALSO be made in Houlton as soon as the retooling is complete.

Please reserve your judgement on others' statements if you do not have the mental capacity to understand what they are saying.

My Brother is working on the retooling process as we speak. He has been bouncing back and forth between springfield and Houlton for the last three months, as HE IS THE PROJECT MANAGER IN CHARGE OF THE RETOOLING!!

I think he understands what they are doing, and as such, so do I.

Well said.

 

[gdbabin]

Thanks Rexsox,

So to be clear, the retooling includes provision for the production of "sw9 & other metal frames (TSW)" in Houlton; in adition to retooling machices the 1911s have been produced on in Houlton for the past 3 or so years?

The DK has been a SS frame, carbon slide design. As I understand it they will now be SS/SS. This does change the nature of the beast--to some significantly.

 

[Fastbolt]

Redsoxfan's posting is virtually identical to what I've been told by a couple of sources from within the headquarters factory. I'd guess his brother is a pretty busy fellow right about now.

People obviously aren't likely to be aware of it, but S&W has periodically been investing significant amounts of money in new manufacturing equipment, including new CNC equipment, over the least several years.

Now that the TSW & Chiefs Special manufacturing has been shifted to the Houlton plant, which is going to be in addition to the manufacturing of handcuffs and other metal-frame pistols already being produced there, I think it's prudent and laudable that S&W is taking the opportunity to upgrade the plant's manufacturing capabilities.

S&W isn't exactly unfamiliar with making continual improvements to their manufacturing capabilities, though.

We were told during an armorer class that S&W has recently decided to buy some new equipment so they can start forging their own uppers & lowers for the M&P 15 rifle line.

 

[~tc~]

As the supplier of every revolver trigger, hammer, and sear and various 1911 parts for the past 3 years, I have a bit of direct knowledge on how SMW assembles guns.

The OP asked about 1911's.

You never specified 1911 or otherwise.

Understand how I misunderstood?

 

[curioushooter]

In conjunction with the move, they are retooling Houlton with new CNC machinery to increase quality for the metal guns

I hope this is true, and I hope Houlton doesn't become the forgotten red-headed corporate step child. Thanks for the info!

 

[perpster]

I ordered 2 1911s in Dec09 (DK&MP) through the military sales program. I've yet to receive either. In following-up I've learned my pistols will not deliver until August or so.

1. Has anyone else experienced the extreme delay in delivery through the Military Sales program?

Guy

Still waiting on the M&P15-22 I ordered last week of December 2009.

 

[Poohgyrr]

:::::: which is going to be in addition to the manufacturing of handcuffs :::

I always guessed S&W handcuffs were made by outside manufacturers. But if they are going to be or have been made by S&W, hmmm - OK... Thanks...

 

[Fastbolt]

I always guessed S&W handcuffs were made by outside manufacturers. But if they are going to be or have been made by S&W, hmmm - OK... Thanks...

I remember reading where S&W has manufactured over 6 million handcuffs at their Houlton plant.


I believe (and someone with more details is invited to chime in) the Houlton plant has been used to make knives, handcuffs, S&W's .22 plinkers, the Model 41, Walther PPK and PPK/S, SW1911's and now the TSW's (remaining 3rd gen guns).

 

[capttom]

I wonder, with S&W spending money to modernize machinery, if they'll continue with more than just the TSWs. I think there would be a ready market for new 3913s, 6906s, and CSs, not to mention the big bore 3rd gens.

 

[Fastbolt]

I wonder, with S&W spending money to modernize machinery, if they'll continue with more than just the TSWs. I think there would be a ready market for new 3913s, 6906s, and CSs, not to mention the big bore 3rd gens.

Nice thought. Didn't seem to be the case when they were being produced and were for sale, though.

I remember asking why the CS40 had been dropped from the Chiefs Special line. I was told that during what turned out to be the final year of production of that model, less than 100 units had been ordered from the factory for the whole year. They decided it wasn't marketable and discontinued it. The 4040PD suffered the same fate, even though it was an excellent compact alloy .40 TDA pistol. The added cost of the Scandium aluminum frame apparently simply priced it beyond what people were willing to pay.

Would you be willing to pay a cost for one of those S&W's similar to that charged for a comparable Sig Sauer which is also made in the US? Would everyone else?

 

[ladder13]

I wonder, with S&W spending money to modernize machinery, if they'll continue with more than just the TSWs. I think there would be a ready market for new 3913s, 6906s, and CSs, not to mention the big bore 3rd gens.

They ARE making 3913TSW, CS9'S and 45's but not the 6906. I asked my FFL to look into the CS9 for me.


Category - LE Pistol Concealment/Backup

 

[Fastbolt]

Yes, they are making those models for the LE/Gov catalog. (I was handling some new production 3913TSW's received by an agency recently, along with some other fairly recent production TSW's.)

They can be ordered through designated S&W LE distributors for individual (active and retired) LE/Gov sales. The prices are set by the distributors. (I asked the LE sales dept at the factory about this a while back.)

They're even occasionally releasing some of the intentional production overruns from their vaults onto the commercial market when they want to clear out some inventory. What's available depends on what's in the vaults.

Whether they will be made for general commercial production and sales again is another question, though.

 

[gdbabin]

sometimes its hard for us to focus

 

[Poohgyrr]

::: S&W's .22 plinkers, the Model 41, Walther PPK and PPK/S, SW1911's and now the TSW's (remaining 3rd gen guns).

I laughed at the idea of the 3rd Gen's being manufactured alongside knives and handcuffs, but with the M41, I guess they're in good company... I shouldn't laugh, but it seemed kinda funny..

And thank you for the info too, appreciated.....

 

[dmb]

I haven't handled new S&W cuffs in a while, I hope the quality has improved. We were issued them in the early 90's, the markings were mostly unreadable, and the single strand was so lose on most we had to manually line them up. I figured they were a licenced S&W product (or a Mexican knock off), because they sure were not up to S&W's normal high standard. We ended up destroying about 200 pair with a big set of bolt cutters and replacing them with Hyatts except for the 10 pair I have and use as various locks.

 

[makaadict]

I certainly hope they invest in training the Dremel Monkeys they employ to make the S&W Walthers before they completely ruin a fine weapon design