New S&W owner...

[andrewb70]

I want to thank this forum for the great information that it provides.

Two days ago I was at the local range and I walked over to the consignment case, as I often do. The inventory turns over fairly often and I always like to see what's available. I spotted a stainless S&W pistol and I had to get a closer look. After being handed the pistol I noticed that it was a 4516-2. I have to be honest in that I really was not that familiar with older S&W pistols. The current S&W lineup leaves much to be desired. I am sure that the current line of M&P pistols are good firearms, but they certainly lack any sort of passion or feeling of quality.

So after seeing the 4516-2 in the case, I got online and started reading. I ran across this forum and by all accounts the 4516-2 is a fine pistol, so I purchased it for $450. It looked like it was barely fired, and perhaps used for home defense. It does not have any holster marks, but it was definitely dirty.

I took it home, gave it a thorough cleaning, and took it to the range the same evening. I fed 100 rounds of Tennessee Cartridge reload range ammo and it didn't have a single failure. It shoots a little low but otherwise it is very accurate. I was quite pleased.

After getting it home and playing around with it some more, I noticed that the trigger had an odd "click" as it went through its range of motion in SA mode. I didn't really notice this when I shot it at the range, but it was very evident. So I took the slide off and started looking inside. It was clear that when the trigger was moving it was slipping out of its groove in the trigger bar. So I took the gun completely apart and gave it a really deep cleaning. I also noticed that the little tab that is on the trigger bar was bent back some. This was allowing the trigger to slip out of its groove in the trigger bar, which resulted in the extra "click" I was feeling.

So I bent back the tab, cleaned everything, reassembled, and now the trigger feels like a new gun. The DA is firm, but manageable, and the SA action is very crisp. I am very pleased with the 4516-2 and I plan to use it as my EDC.

Andrew

 

[TACC1]

Welcome aboard! Sounds like you pickrd a good one.
Happy shooting, TACC1.

 

[scatterguy]

Congrats on a fine acquisition. I'm really impressed that you already found out how to deal with a sloppy trigger play spring on your own The 4566 that I bought had the same issue but I quickly found the remedy here on this most helpful site. Enjoy that 4516 and post some pics if you get a chance.

 

[SMSgt]

My 4566 trigger clicks also. I've applied the remedy, but after 10-15 shots it does it again. The spring has simply lost its tension and needs replacement.

 

[andrewb70]

Congrats on a fine acquisition. I'm really impressed that you already found out how to deal with a sloppy trigger play spring on your own The 4566 that I bought had the same issue but I quickly found the remedy here on this most helpful site. Enjoy that 4516 and post some pics if you get a chance.

Thank you. I am fairly mechanically inclined and I really enjoy the "gadgety" aspect of firearms. I am fascinated by different designs and I always attempt to figure out how various firearms operate. I took the 4516-2 to the range again today. The trigger feels great and it gobble up 100 rounds of inexpensive Winchester 230 grain FMJ without a hick-up. I also shot 14 rounds of Winchester 230 grain hollow points and there were zero problems.

I know how everyone likes pictures, so here is the 4516-2.

I am also a huge CZ fan. I know that this isn't the CZ forum but I thought you all might enjoy my CZ 75B stainless with coco bolo grips. It is my range toy and has been 100% reliable and accurate.

Enjoy...

Andrew

 

[heekma]

Congrats on your new Smith! You may find that one just isn't enough...

I hope this question isn't straying too far from topic-but how does the CZ compare to the Smith? I've always been keen to shoot a CZ, but even though my range has a few to rent, I've always ended up shooting my Smiths instead.

They're both nice looking guns, enjoy 'em!

Best,

Heekma

 

[andrewb70]

Congrats on your new Smith! You may find that one just isn't enough...

I hope this question isn't straying too far from topic-but how does the CZ compare to the Smith? I've always been keen to shoot a CZ, but even though my range has a few to rent, I've always ended up shooting my Smiths instead.

They're both nice looking guns, enjoy 'em!

Best,

Heekma

I think we can stray a little off topic...LOL

First of all, by all means, if your range has a CZ 75B or anything that resembles it in the rental case, try it out. I find that gun impressions are very subjective, and guns really need to be experienced to truly know how they feel for you.

With that said, I am happy to share my impressions of both pistols but without really comparing them against each other too much. I got the CZ because I was looking for a 9mm to enjoy at the range. This is not to say that the CZ is not a capable weapon. The CZ 75 design is the most widely used architecture in the world and has been or is currently in service in military and law enforcement agencies all around the world. I personally like that certain Eastern European mystique that surrounds the CZ. Maybe it is because I was originally born in the USSR (I am a US citizen now)....

The CZ has a unique design where the slide actually resides inside the frame. This supports the slide along the whole length of the frame, which makes for very solid, durable construction. The workmanship on the CZ is superb. It is evident that the CZ factory uses the latest CNC machining technology in their manufacturing. The controls have a very solid, satisfying feeling, much like the controls on a fully custom 1911, but obviously at a much lower cost.

One area that I would like to compare directly between the S&W and the CZ is the trigger. Out of the box, the S&W trigger is amazing and way better than the CZ. God knows how many rounds have been shot through my 4516-2, but besides the little trigger issue that I fixed, the trigger feel is superb. This was also the case when I recently had a chance to shoot a 3913 Lady Smith. It too had a very crisp, clean trigger break. The CZ on the other hand has a trigger that many people would consider "safe." This means that when the hammer is cocked and you begin to depress the trigger to release the hammer, the hammer moves back a fairly substantial amount before the sear completely drops the hammer. This really isn't any sort of defect, it is just the way the hammer and sear profiles have been designed. So like I said, out of the box, the trigger feel of the S&W is much better. However, the CZ is very easy to work on and if you are not comfortable working on your own pistol, the CZ custom shop has a very good reputation for tuning the CZ pistols for whatever purpose you desire. I actually performed a very simple, subtle trigger job, and this has improved the trigger feel substantially, while still not being a "hair trigger."

With respect to accuracy, the CZ is excellent. I can shoot a very tight grouping even at 25 yards without much effort. My GF does even better. But then again she routinely embarrasses the men in the various shooting classes that she takes. The felt recoil of the CZ is very mild, as I am sure is the case with the fullsize S&W 9mm pistols.

That is all I can think of, but if anyone has any specific questions, please do not hesitate to ask. I also have a Springfield XDm 40, but it has the personality of a rock, which is not to say that it isn't a very highly performing pistol. It's just a tupperware gun...

Andrew

 

[Martya]

Thanks for the nice comparo, Andrew. I carry my 4513TSW almost every day. Once in a great while I switch to carrying my M&P 45 because it is newer and has more rounds, but the 4513 is just so cool looking and comfortable and easy to shoot I go back to carrying it.

Yeah, the M&P, following Glock and others, defines what the modern utilitarian duty weapon looks like, but those Gen III's have style and I think look like what a personal semi-auto sidearm should look like.



Oh, your CZ is nice looking, too...

 

[Badkarma 1]

That's a nice 4516-2 Andrew, and your CZ is gorgeous!
One thing you'll find about that Smith is it's propensity to EAT anything you feed it! But then it's a 3rd Gen Smith.
On a side note, I got the chance to play with the CZ-75 a few years ago, it would keep pace both in accuracy and reliability with my SIG P226! A very underrated pistol indeed! Dale

 

[scatterguy]

That is one fine looking 75! Thank the good Lord that some companies are still producing the steel/alloy guns that so many of us enjoy.

 

[andrewb70]

Nice 4516-2. Love the pictures, super clear. What did you use for a camera?

Thank you! The pictures were taken with a Canon Rebel T2i with a Canon 28mm lens. I am a bit of a photography geek as well, but by no means a pro. The camera was mounted on a tri-pod and the guns were facing the window. It was already late in the day so there wasn't a lot of natural light, but enough. I set the F-stop at 8 and the exposure speeds were anywhere from 1.5 to 4 seconds. They got longer because it was getting dark out fairly quickly.

Quick hints on taking good pictures:

Natural light is best. Do not use the flash!
If you can adjust aperture set it high, say around 8-10 depending what your lens can do. This will increase the depth of field and assure that all of the gun is in focus. The higher F-stop will necessitate longer exposures, so a tri-pod will be needed. Also, when shooting long exposures I prefer to use a 2 second timer. This allows to camera a moment to stabilize just in case there was any movement cause by the pressing the shutter button.

Happy shooting (yes, the pun was intended...)

Andrew