New to forum and to carrying

[jgreiner]

I am just getting started with the Carry process in my state (we are a SHALL ISSUE state) And I have been in love with the MP since the first time I picked one up.

I am a little nervous about getting one for carry that does NOT have a thumb safety, simply because I don't want to shoot off whats left of the family jewels.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Can I be reasonably safe without the thumb safety?

I really need to try to shoot one too, have shot a Springfield XD 9mm that I really hated at first, trigger pull was terrible.

On edit: I should also add that I am a southpaw......and I have LARGE hands, which is why I have taken to the MP....it fits my hand very well.

 

[crofoot629]

I carry a Glock in condition 1 a lot.

You do need to be conscious of loose clothing getting inside the trigger guard when holstering.

Or with training the thumb safety is transparent or seamless in its application. Why not get an M&P with a frame mounted safety? I'm a Glock/1911 guy. I wish my Glocks had frame mounted safeties.

Get a good quality belt and holster and you're good to go.

I prefer outside the waistband holsters of the tunnel loop or 55BN configuration. Kramer has quality gear without the wait of Sparks. No it's not cheap, but it's only your life you're betting on.

Emory

 

[D Rock]

Welcome to the Forum!

I've been carrying my M&P 9c since '08. Prior to that I carried a
S&W .357. So I started out not being used to a thumb safety and don't have one on my 9c.

What I did, and what I think is most important, it to actually get some training for what you want to carry. Along with that I participated in combat training/competition run by NRA certified instructors. It made me very confident in the use of my carry pistol.

Safety or not, it's your choice. Once you make the choice train.

Dave

 

[Navy96]

I'm also fairly new to carriying, and have a .45C w/ safety.
i'm partial to having a safety on all my weapons...just a personal preference. I know some don't see the need, but for me it's just another level of safety. I've trained enough so it's second nature to disengage the saftey when drawing.

You can be safe without the safety, you just need to train and train often (as with any weapon).

 

[TNDave]

No thumb safety isn't a problem as long as you adhere to correct form which means not putting your finger on the trigger until the gun is on target as you draw. Revolvers don't have safeties either. As long as you train correctly and keep your trigger finger straight as you draw you should be fine.

 

[cshoff]

A mechanical safety device can no more be depended on to "save the family jewels" than a model without the mechanical safety could be. In fact, I submit that if you come to rely on that mechanical safety as some sort of crutch, it could have just the opposite effect; allowing you to subconsciously become more and more complacent with placing your finger on the trigger when you are not actually ready to shoot while relying on that "ON/OFF" switch to keep you "safe".

In reality, if you have poor trigger discipline, it's just a matter of time before you have an ND, regardless of the platform you are using. A few things worth remembering:

- There is NEVER any hurry to re-holster a gun. You can always take the time to visually look at the holster and make sure there are no obstructions in the way that could interfere with the trigger.

- Your finger should NEVER be on the trigger unless you are actually ready to fire the gun.

- No safety device of any kind should ever be used as a substitute for safe gun handling practices. A safety is a mechanical device, and they CAN fail.

 

[southchatham]

If you prefer the safety, just buy the gun with the safety. I personally don't want a safety so I have one without. But don't let people talk you out of the safety if it makes you feel safer. You can always leave the safety in the ready mode if you decide later not to use it.

 

[jgreiner]

A mechanical safety device can no more be depended on to "save the family jewels" than a model without the mechanical safety could be. In fact, I submit that if you come to rely on that mechanical safety as some sort of crutch, it could have just the opposite effect; allowing you to subconsciously become more and more complacent with placing your finger on the trigger when you are not actually ready to shoot while relying on that "ON/OFF" switch to keep you "safe".

In reality, if you have poor trigger discipline, it's just a matter of time before you have an ND, regardless of the platform you are using. A few things worth remembering:

- There is NEVER any hurry to re-holster a gun. You can always take the time to visually look at the holster and make sure there are no obstructions in the way that could interfere with the trigger.

- Your finger should NEVER be on the trigger unless you are actually ready to fire the gun.

- No safety device of any kind should ever be used as a substitute for safe gun handling practices. A safety is a mechanical device, and they CAN fail.

It's not poor finger discipline......but carrying an MP is the equivalent of carrying a revolver with the hammer cocked. Or at least close to it. I realize they aren't supposed to go off when dropped (MP) but shirts, etc, can catch the trigger.

I'm not new to guns.....have shot everything in handguns except for a .357 and .44 mag. (Had a close friend with a nearly complete WWII handgun collection).

I am also very familiar with rifles and shotguns. And yes, I unload my shotgun BEFORE crossing a fence. I had a childhood friend killed in just such an accident.

Maybe I am being overly cautious, since I haven't done any carrying before. And, I have returned to shooting after a long layoff.

 

[jgreiner]

If you prefer the safety, just buy the gun with the safety. I personally don't want a safety so I have one without. But don't let people talk you out of the safety if it makes you feel safer. You can always leave the safety in the ready mode if you decide later not to use it.

Good point. I also have thought about carrying without a round in the chamber.

 

[OKFC05]

Good point. I also have thought about carrying without a round in the chamber.

Strongly suggest you take a good defense pistol class or 2, such as are available from the NRA. Good training and practice will prepare you to safely and effectively carry a firearm.
As to the safety, the primary safety is your trigger finger, which is connected to your brain. Until that is trained and under control, no mechanical device can compensate.

Once you are trained and get some experience carrying, you will be able to make intelligent choices about your equipment and tactics. Trust me, carrying a handgun is unlike any other shooting you've done, and you DO need the training.

 

[jgreiner]

Strongly suggest you take a good defense pistol class or 2, such as are available from the NRA. Good training and practice will prepare you to safely and effectively carry a firearm.
As to the safety, the primary safety is your trigger finger, which is connected to your brain. Until that is trained and under control, no mechanical device can compensate.

Once you are trained and get some experience carrying, you will be able to make intelligent choices about your equipment and tactics. Trust me, carrying a handgun is unlike any other shooting you've done, and you DO need the training.

Oh, I plan on it. Meanwhile, am brushing up on my shooting at the local range every chance I get. I have 20 years of rust to knock off.

 

[MotorCityGun]

It's not poor finger discipline......but carrying an MP is the equivalent of carrying a revolver with the hammer cocked. Or at least close to it.

You could not be more wrong. Carrying a DAO, striker fired pistol (w/o) a manual safety is NOT the "equivalent" of carrying, a (SA) revolver cocked. NOT even "close to it".

I'm not new to guns.....have shot everything in handguns except for a .357 and .44 mag. (Had a close friend with a nearly complete WWII handgun collection).

As someone who is new to this forum and to CC, it would behoove you to keep an open mind and non-defensive attitude. Your "I am not new to guns..." response suggests that you need to defend your position rather than accept constructive feedback for what it is. How are we supposed to know or even assume that all of that shooting you did with your friend's collection was done in a SAFE manner?

As my parents used to advise me, "listen to your elders, you might learn something". Oh, forgot to mention, welcome to the forum!

 

[chuck s]

I'd only take a NRA class if it was required to get my license.

Take a "basic tactical pistol" course from a reputable school. Of two or three days -- minimum. These schools don't make believe you're not training to shoot people.

A "safety" on a modern pistol like the M&P with a good two-stage trigger just gets in the way. It'll be ON that one crisis moment you need it to be OFF unless you depress and hold it OFF all the time, every time. Unless you were trained with the M1911 you won't keep your thumb on top of the safety as you must.

Carry without a round in the chamber?! To what benefit? Please take some training.

-- Chuck

 

[cshoff]

I'd only take a NRA class if it was required to get my license.

Take a "basic tactical pistol" course from a reputable school. Of two or three days -- minimum. These schools don't make believe you're not training to shoot people.
.
.
.
<snip>
-- Chuck

Not sure what NRA course you took, or with what instructor, but the two personal protection courses I teach do not shy away from the very serious topic of deadly force at all. The NRA Basic Pistol course, on the other hand, doesn't deal with defensive use of a handgun much at all. It's more about safety and basic marksmanship than anything else, and is very much geared towards the new/beginning shooter.

 

[cshoff]

It's not poor finger discipline......but carrying an MP is the equivalent of carrying a revolver with the hammer cocked. Or at least close to it.....<snip>

As was pointed out above by MotorCityGun, that is way off. The M&P comes from the factory with a trigger pull of 6.5lbs.+/-. A typical revolver being fired from the single-action mode generally requires less (sometimes much less) than 2 lbs. of trigger pull to fire the gun. In other words, the M&P will require approximately 300% more force to complete the trigger pull than the typical revolver being fired in single-action mode. There is a BIG difference, and if you care to prove it to yourself, simply find a range that will rent you both guns and see for yourself.

I realize they aren't supposed to go off when dropped (MP) but shirts, etc, can catch the trigger.....<snip>

Barring a catastrophic mechanical failure within the gun, they will NOT "go off" (discharge) when dropped. It is impossible for the striker to make contact with the primer of the cartridge unless the trigger is pulled completely and deliberately to the rear. Now with that said, it's certainly possible for a gun that's been improperly "tinkered with" or poorly maintained to suffer a mechanical failure of some kind, so as I stated before, you can never count on safety features as a substitute for safe gun handling practices.

As to foreign objects "catching" the trigger, they can just as easily "catch" and disengage a mechanical safety device. As I pointed out earlier in this thread,there is NEVER any reason to re-holster a gun in a big hurry. You can always take the time to visually look at the holster and make sure there are no obstructions in the way that could interfere with the trigger BEFORE you place the gun back in the holster. This is something you should do with ANY handgun, regardless of the type or design.

 

[R1_Demon]

Also, as cshoff pointed out, what's to say that a "foreign object" (shirts, etc...) couldn't "catch" and disengage your manual safety while you reholstered your firearm? If it can "catch" the trigger, than it can definitely "catch" the manual safety. Then your firearm is in your holster with the safety off, but you are always depending on it being on and "trusting" (and thinking) that it is always on. That could definitely cause a ND if you think it's on when you unholster it and stick your finger in the trigger guard prior to target acquisition and being ready to truly fire.

Not saying that manual safeties are bad...they aren't, but you just have to work with the number one safety the most...your brain. And be open to what others are suggesting for you; especially since you asked for the opinions.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[jgreiner]

Also, as cshoff pointed out, what's to say that a "foreign object" (shirts, etc...) couldn't "catch" and disengage your manual safety while you reholstered your firearm? If it can "catch" the trigger, than it can definitely "catch" the manual safety. Then your firearm is in your holster with the safety off, but you are always depending on it being on and "trusting" (and thinking) that it is always on. That could definitely cause a ND if you think it's on when you unholster it and stick your finger in the trigger guard prior to target acquisition and being ready to truly fire.

Not saying that manual safeties are bad...they aren't, but you just have to work with the number one safety the most...your brain. And be open to what others are suggesting for you; especially since you asked for the opinions.

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the feedback. And yes, I plan on taking every course I can once I make my MP purchase. Meanwhile, I am going to continue to shoot to knock the 20 plus years of rust off.

 

[MotorCityGun]

Thanks for the feedback. And yes, I plan on taking every course I can once I make my MP purchase. Meanwhile, I am going to continue to shoot to knock the 20 plus years of rust off.

Good for you, dude. However, you might consider starting anew as an "empty vessel". In other words, rather than "continue to shoot to knock the 20 plus years of rust off", start all over again after you gain a lot of new knowledge and techniques from your instructor(s). Much (technology, techniques) has changed over the past two decades. Instead of, potentially, resurrecting (20 yr) old habits and thoughts, go into this as a brand new shooter and create new habits.

 

[ESM]

Welcome!
Like you, I'm a southpaw with big hands. I love the ergonomics of my M&P9. Even with my large mitts, I use the medium backstrap.
I really like the point made by cshoff about there being no reason to rush a holster maneuver. Also, paraphrasing OKFC05, "The wingnut attached to the boom switch is the primary safety" for any weapon.
Finally, I initially switched the mag release from RH to LH (VERY easy to do), but switched back. Most guns I shoot are RH mag release only. In the interest of K.I.S.S., I've learned to release the mag with my trigger finger. I know that last statement is a bit off topic, but being a fellow southpaw, I thought it worth mentioning.
Good luck with your training!

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Original poster, I believe that your concerns are legitimate. While an M&P may not be exactly equal to a cocked S&W revolver, it is close, and in some ways is worse. At least with a cocked S&W revolver, you can hold the hammer back while reholstering. While it may be true that a safety can be unintentionally disengaged about as easily as a trigger can be unintentionally be pulled, that is not the real question. After all, there HAVE been accidents while reholstering Glocks. The issue may not be whether or not to get a safety on your M&P, the issue may be whether or not you should get an M&P at all. Your preference for the feel of this pistol is a very strong argument for it, but it probably doesn't overrule daily safety. If you get an M&P, a safety IS a benefit for as long as you feel you need it, but there is no substitute for extreme care in reholstering, as cshoff correctly emphasizes. Personally, I prefer an auto whose hammer I can hold back while reholstering, or a revolver whose hammer I can hold down while reholstering, but millions of cops and others reholster Glocks quite often with only a handful of NDs.

Your choice, but don't feel that there is anything wrong with your concerns. They are quite proper.