New to revolvers--a trigger question

[Nemesis]

Guys,

I am very new to revolvers (and brand new to this forum) although I am a very experienced IDPA / 3 gun / military shooter.

I am getting a S&W Model 327 M&P R8 revolver in 10 days (our waiting period).

I tested it at the store and really fell in love with this performance center product!

My only concern is the DA trigger pull. Even tuned at the performance center, it seems long and heavy (to me--a man with little experience with revolvers). The pull is 10 pounds easy (which may be normal for a revolver, but for a semi-auto pistol that is heavy).

Questions:

1) Will work by a qualified gunsmith (I was thinking of sending it to Woods Custom Rifles) lighten or shorten this significantly?

2) Will this make the gun unsafe/unreliable or void the S & W warranty?

3) Instead of a trigger job, should I just shoot or dry fire the revolver to lighten it up? Can I expect significant lightening?

What do you think and thanks in advance for your replies.

 

[Nemesis]

Guys,

I am very new to revolvers (and brand new to this forum) although I am a very experienced IDPA / 3 gun / military shooter.

I am getting a S&W Model 327 M&P R8 revolver in 10 days (our waiting period).

I tested it at the store and really fell in love with this performance center product!

My only concern is the DA trigger pull. Even tuned at the performance center, it seems long and heavy (to me--a man with little experience with revolvers). The pull is 10 pounds easy (which may be normal for a revolver, but for a semi-auto pistol that is heavy).

Questions:

1) Will work by a qualified gunsmith (I was thinking of sending it to Woods Custom Rifles) lighten or shorten this significantly?

2) Will this make the gun unsafe/unreliable or void the S & W warranty?

3) Instead of a trigger job, should I just shoot or dry fire the revolver to lighten it up? Can I expect significant lightening?

What do you think and thanks in advance for your replies.

 

[VM]

Welcome to the Forum

Get the gun and shoot it. If you still want to have modifications done, send it to S&W Performance Center.

 

[dant]

My opinion always has been get the gun, use it, try out different ammo (accuracy) and develope your trigger finger for the change, and there is a BIG change from semi autos and the average revolver.....after some use and practice, then if you feel the 'need', check with a GOOD gunsmith, and even get their opinion as to the whys and the wherefores, may just need a 'deburr', springs or a smooth out, or NOTHING at all, and yes, some will try and sell you a 'complete action job' after ALL, THAT IS THEIR BUSINESS.....

with many revolvers it is felt that the heavier trigger pull is the ONLY thing "close to a safety..." seen them from 6 to 18 pounds.

 

[Revolver King]

If I were going to send one away, I would send it to clark custom. most of the time if you have a trigger job done for comp. they will only fire federal primers (this will bring it down to around 6 lb. double action pull) a service trigger job will bring it down to 8 lb. pull. the only way to shorten the stroke would require it to be double action only. There may be someone else on here that knows someone that can do it differently. This is just one option and I am sure you will get many other suggestions.
Oh yes welcome to the forum, I am a 4 gun expert in IDPA myself.

 

[Andy Taylor]

Revolvers are different than autos. With a DA automatic the trigger pull is cocking the hamer and then releasing it. With a DA revolver the trigger pull is cocking the hammer, rotating the cylinder and then releasing the hammer.

Shoot the gun, then if you still think it needs work, send it back to the Performance Center.

 

[Sgt Preston]

Sgt Preston here. I agree that it will just take a while to get the "feel of the gun". I would practice both with live ammo & with extensive dry firing in both single acting & double acting modes. I think everything will fall into place. Just give it some time & some practice. Hope this helps. Sgt Preston USMC LLA

 

[Nemesis]

Thanks guys. I will give it a test fire and see.

I know that I HATE semi-autos with heavy trigger pulls, but I will keep on open mind and work on that trigger finger muscle.

Anyone know if the warranty is voided if a qualified gunsmith works on the gun? Nonetheless, I may just send it to the performance center.

 

[stevieboy]

I shoot double action revolvers about 99% of the time. I'm sort of your mirror image because I'm having a tough time getting used to the trigger on a semiauto. Learning the double action trigger is an acquired taste but, once you get the hang of it you may love it. Here are a few ideas.

1.) You'll need to put your finger deeper into the trigger guard than you do with your semiautos. Instead of using the pad of your fingertip to shoot, try resting the trigger just beneath the crease formed by your first knuckle. That will give you much greater leverage and will enable you to pull the trigger without torquing the gun offline. With the greater leverage the trigger will feel significantly lighter.

2. Most double action revolvers will "stage." By that I mean that if you pull the trigger slowly you will hear and feel an audible "click" as the cylinder locks into place. From that point on the additional pressure you need to pull the trigger is minimal. It is possible to stage a trigger while you're zeroing your sights on a target so that the last incremental pull does the job. You can also reference the "stage" point because, if your finger is in the trigger guard deeply enough, the tip will make contact with the gun's frame just as the cylinder rotates into place. From that feel you can tell that the gun will fire imminently if you continue to pull.

3. I second what others have said about dryfiring. I do it a lot, probably 5 - 10 minutes a day. Watch your front sight as you dryfire. If it moves, then you're torquing the gun. Sometimes I balance a coin on the top of the barrel when I dryfire and I see how many rounds I can squeeze off before the coin drops. It's possible with some practice to hold the gun rock steady and the coin is a good measure of how well you're doing.

4. Your trigger probably will lighten with time and a few hundred rounds of shooting/dryfiring. And, the perception of effort will, in any event, decrease as you develop the muscles in your shooting hand.

5. I agree with others who recommend the Smith Performance Center for a trigger job. They've done work for me and it has been outstanding. But, be careful about getting the trigger made too light. Light strikes sort of defeat the purpose of having the gun.

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
I shoot both so I understand.
Think of the double action to be like a S&W
auto [39xx 59xx] that is used when a shot is taken at close range and very quickly..
[ AW---- Shxxxt]
The single action is like a 1911 and used
for longer range and more precise shots.
The revolver is shot differently than the auto.

 

[magnum12pm]

I smooth eight pound trigger always seems like less than eight. The secret to good double action shooting is practice and dry fire, not a super light trigger. If your technique is not up to par, a 5 pound trigger will not make you a more accurate shooter. The art of double action revolver is somewhat of a lost art at the indoor range I go to. I would have to refer to folks at this range hammmer pullers

 

[Nemesis]

Thanks guys. Some really great thoughts above.

I am liking this forum! On Glock Talk, we would have had some name calling by now!

 

[stevieboy]

You can have that if you want it. Just ask a question about the internal lock

 

[Lt JL]

+1 for Stevieboy. As another old wheelgunner dragged kicking and screaming to DA autos, I fully support his advice. Practice until you can stage at least 5 out of every 6 shots before you make any decisions about action work.

 

[Dale53]

There are TWO components to dry firing a revolver double action. Watching your sights as you do it, you WILL increase your skill level.

That is ONE component.

The OTHER component is that you will increase your STRENGTH. You don't use your double action trigger muscle motion for anything else. Your muscles are weak. Dry firing regularly will increase your STRENGTH. That becomes a REAL benefit in increasing your control.

These two components tie in nicely.

A set of Crimson Trace grips will seriously shorten your learning curve. Just "point the dot" and watch how the "dot movement" reduces as you increase your strength and skill.

FWIW
Dale53

 

[m657]

If you are a Glock shooter, consider the analog to the 'pre-set' safety click on the trigger before you stroke the trigger for the shot, as a similar sensation of the staging of the cylinder bolt per stevieboy's #2 excellent synopsis.

It's an acquired and trainable skill requiring diligence and practicePracticePRACTICE. However, it does serve the purpose very well. Your last stage becomes a "SA" mode fire then, which drops from the 6# range to considerably less in the well tuned action.

Welcome to the wonderful world of REVOLVERS!!!

 

[Nemesis]

Interesting point M657. I do ride the trigger reset on the Glock. You can see why semi-autos have spoiled me. I am getting 3 or 4 torso-accurate shots off in a second.

I supposed with practice, staging with a revolver could become a similar (ableit with different mechanics) good habit.

Dale--I have never liked laser grips much for shooting, but as a DA trigger training aid......that is very interesting.

 

[m657]

I am getting 3 or 4 torso-accurate shots off in a second.

see if you can dig up a YouTube video on Jerry Miculek (sp?) regarding trigger control and timing of shots.

Good Luck!!!

 

[USAF385]

It took me hardly anytime at all to get used to the heavy trigger on my 642 (it is DA only). Switching from that back to my 681 (SA+DA) was quite a shock when I pulled back the hammer! I'm very comfortable with the heavy trigger now and have no issues with its performance or my accuracy.

 

[MrPhil]

99% of my revolver shooting is DA. Most of that is with a well broken in 625-3. Trigger is very smooth with an 8 or 9 pound pull. Getting it and me to that point involved lots of dry and live fire. It is my most accurate handgun, bar none.

DA revolver has improved my Glock shooting, given me a much better feel for that trigger. Really improved speed and accuracy.

I strongly urge you to do a bunch of dry and live fire before choosing to modify your new 627. I think you will be pleased with the results.