The stamping game in objects as small as pistol magazines can be screwed by release agents, lubes or a problem in the uniformity of the coil stock. It can be dimensions or inconsistency in alloy of the material.
New Triple K Model 52 Magazines
- Thread starter lowriderfxr
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FWIW, the situation is much the same with Colt Woodsman mags. TripleK came out with new ones a while back, so I ordered a couple. I couldn't get one into the mag well, couldn't get the other out (without effort). Totally unusable. Tried some tweaking, using measurements from my OEM Woodsman mags - no luck. Thanks to the OP, I won't be ordering any for my Model 52.
Jim Watson
Member
Early on, Colt .38 wadcutter conversions from .38 Super used the Super magazine, cut and bent to handle rimmed midrange Specials. I figure the first factory Special magazines were in the Gil Hebard kits.
So, is there another magazine that fits the M52 well? M39, maybe. If so, could one fold, spindle, and mutilate it to hold Specials instead of 9mm?
So, is there another magazine that fits the M52 well? M39, maybe. If so, could one fold, spindle, and mutilate it to hold Specials instead of 9mm?
Shutthefrontdoor
Member
@DRM50: So very true; also consider that it's entirely possible that the magazines are made (possibly semi-complete) in a progressive tool that might cycle at or around 600 strokes per minute with nothing but sensors programed to stay within (a) pre-programed tolerance. Having said that, an operator can set a 20-40k lbs. coil onto the mandrel, set the feed, line up the catch bins and move onto other jobs while 6000 or however many get pumped out...
I wonder how many fixture checks are done within a shift? I also wonder if the supplier runs to a number or to a "quality" number...
Side note: I detest where we as consumers accept lower quality for a lower purchase price. And for that matter, if they are going to be sourced and manufactured in Asia - demand and pay for high(er) quality. I still hold the belief that no one wakes up and says: "I'm going to work and make some more junk today".
But hey, every workplace has it's own culture, and in a way - the consumer either supports it or ditches it. I'm yet to see a "free lunch" when it comes to quality in manufacturing.
I don't mean to rant, but I'm 52 and grew up in the world of manufacturing, and I don't believe I need to tell/remind anyone on this forum of the Faustian bargain that started in the 1960's, was supercharged after NAFTA was passed, and has left us here.
Where that is, I don't know anymore. Faster and cheaper are just not sustainable when it comes to making a part that passes QC within an industry that has standards.
Back to it: I truly hope that they (Triple K)get their collective heads together, listen to the end user, and produce a quality magazine. Everyone (I thought?) knew that it can be done, and at the price point? I'm not much for excuses, how about you?
I have 3k mags for Hi-STDs, HD Mil & Victor as well as Brn Medalist. They all function fine. I did have some in past for obsolete 32 pocket pistols that were useless.
The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. 
AJ
US Veteran
AJ, thanks for pics. They are unmistakably 3K mags. Just from apperrence and having experience with the product since 1970. Keep us posted on how the bending, banging and tweaking go.
TPK Mag prob
from the screw and 4 slid right in. The other won't begin
to enter the mag well.
Found the problem on 4: trigger reset screw was interfering with the magazine. I file off maybe 0.005"
from the screw and 4 slid right in. The other won't begin
to enter the mag well.
OP
AJ
US Veteran
Took the magazines to the range this morning for a test run. Still tight to insert in my 52-1 and have to use a finger nail to remove when the mag release is depressed. Both feed well in my 52-1 with no hiccups. Will remove the grips to see if I can see any problems that way.
My friend had his 52-2 at the range also, so we tried them in that pistol. The magazines inserted easily and removal was easier. Did have some problems getting them to feed properly. Again we will try to diagnose the problems and fix them.
Odd that two different guns would have two completely different sets of problems. Anybody know of any design changes other than the extractor? Will find out his S/N and check it against mine, may have something to do with the machinery getting older and worn later in the production cycle. One of the mysteries of life!
My friend had his 52-2 at the range also, so we tried them in that pistol. The magazines inserted easily and removal was easier. Did have some problems getting them to feed properly. Again we will try to diagnose the problems and fix them.
Odd that two different guns would have two completely different sets of problems. Anybody know of any design changes other than the extractor? Will find out his S/N and check it against mine, may have something to do with the machinery getting older and worn later in the production cycle. One of the mysteries of life!
AJ, it sure is nice of you to do all this free Beta testing for 3K.
AJ
US Veteran
Not doing this for Triple K. I am an old maintenance type that fixes things that don't work properly--from aircraft to my own toys. I can not abide things that do not work as they should. If I can help a forum member with such problems, then I am happy to do so. If that is a problem, I will keep the fixes I discover to myself and not share them.
Most of my hands on stamping experience was from small presses. I wasn't a die maker, just die setter. Most all the problems were corners on small parts that had to assemble to other stamped parts. It's similar to setting shoulder back while loading bottleneck cartridge. You get a rolled edge so slight it's hard to see or feel but it's enough to foul up the fit.
Now AJ, you are taking my Post the wrong way. Im all for sharing info with the members. I just like the stuff I buy to work. I have had a lot of 52s and S&W mags. Never had a problem. I guess Im just spoiled. I look forward to
your posts and the solutions you come up with.
your posts and the solutions you come up with.
JohnHL
Member
Final from me on TPK
I am of the AJ bent-need to figure out why something that should work doesn't. The head sales mgr at TPK reached out and said he wanted to get my measurements on SW
mags to see if there were differences and that they wanted
to make good on their products. I will send one back that won't fit, but I can live with the others, which will take a bit of massaging to get running well.
I am of the AJ bent-need to figure out why something that should work doesn't. The head sales mgr at TPK reached out and said he wanted to get my measurements on SW
mags to see if there were differences and that they wanted
to make good on their products. I will send one back that won't fit, but I can live with the others, which will take a bit of massaging to get running well.
Walter Rego
Member
I have purchased several Triple K magazines that were for pistols where original factory magazines were hard to find or very expensive. Some worked, some didn't.
For the ones that didn't, the problems were traced to incorrect feed angles. I was able to solve that problem by field stripping the pistol, loading a known good magazine with several rounds of ammo and then inserting it into the frame and observing how the bullet tips were oriented compared to the feed ramps and/or chamber entrance. Then I compared the Triple K mags and tweaked the feed lips and sometimes the follower angles until they presented the rounds the same way a factory mag did.
I come from a manufacturing background and the cost to tool up for a new product can be substantial. For a gun with a limited demand for magazines like a Model 52, the break even point is going to be a long ways out. Having a good percentage of the mags returned and even worse, bad reviews hampering sales is a losing proposition for a manufacturer.
I suspect they didn't have enough examples of production Model 52's and magazines to do proper measurements and testing, and poor tooling and/or set up and quality control checks are what is leading to inconsistent performance. I don't know if the Krasne family is still involved in the Triple K company but whoever is running it had better get a handle on their problems. Some guns, like M1911 pistols seem to be a lot more forgiving of tolerance variations in their magazines and that's why so many makers produce mags that work without problems. But the Model 52 is a whole different animal. I wish them luck and hopefully we'll see reliable products coming out of their factory. Wherever it is located these days. It's not in San Diego anymore.
For the ones that didn't, the problems were traced to incorrect feed angles. I was able to solve that problem by field stripping the pistol, loading a known good magazine with several rounds of ammo and then inserting it into the frame and observing how the bullet tips were oriented compared to the feed ramps and/or chamber entrance. Then I compared the Triple K mags and tweaked the feed lips and sometimes the follower angles until they presented the rounds the same way a factory mag did.
I come from a manufacturing background and the cost to tool up for a new product can be substantial. For a gun with a limited demand for magazines like a Model 52, the break even point is going to be a long ways out. Having a good percentage of the mags returned and even worse, bad reviews hampering sales is a losing proposition for a manufacturer.
I suspect they didn't have enough examples of production Model 52's and magazines to do proper measurements and testing, and poor tooling and/or set up and quality control checks are what is leading to inconsistent performance. I don't know if the Krasne family is still involved in the Triple K company but whoever is running it had better get a handle on their problems. Some guns, like M1911 pistols seem to be a lot more forgiving of tolerance variations in their magazines and that's why so many makers produce mags that work without problems. But the Model 52 is a whole different animal. I wish them luck and hopefully we'll see reliable products coming out of their factory. Wherever it is located these days. It's not in San Diego anymore.
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The problem may be the variance in the model 52. The model 52 is hand fitted by a number of smiths, each with their own techniques. Tk may not yet understand the amount and location of the differences and copying a factory mag may not be enough.
Concerning the reasons for the quality issues I believe Jaco1234 has a very good point. Others have described potential reasons that are valid also. For a company that has been in existence for 77 years it seems unlikely that SOPs in quality assurance could have gone unattended or sporadically followed for such a long time. I did not see anywhere on the website that states they are ISO 9000 certified.
Granted, the wonderful world of employee commitment to quality assurance has been a major challenge for manufacturers for like forever, has only gotten tougher lately.
I have a 52-1 model number 55533, so one made in the early to mid 60s. I have 3 original mags, box, tool, extra extractor, blah, blah, blah, so yes, I appreciate the firearm. I should be receiving 2 mags from Triple K on Monday or Tuesday. I am a little concerned about these issues mostly with the possibility of them getting stuck in the gun now that I have had time think more about it lol..
I can let you know how they work with a gun made back when the tooling was in original condition if that would help.
Granted, the wonderful world of employee commitment to quality assurance has been a major challenge for manufacturers for like forever, has only gotten tougher lately.
I have a 52-1 model number 55533, so one made in the early to mid 60s. I have 3 original mags, box, tool, extra extractor, blah, blah, blah, so yes, I appreciate the firearm. I should be receiving 2 mags from Triple K on Monday or Tuesday. I am a little concerned about these issues mostly with the possibility of them getting stuck in the gun now that I have had time think more about it lol..
I can let you know how they work with a gun made back when the tooling was in original condition if that would help.
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