New York has frozen over-New York's May Issue for Good Cause violates 2A

[Capt. F.]

Not with this case.
New York will do what it wants.
A 2’nd Amendment friendly ruling will make no difference at all.

I tend to agree with you.
A case in point? The FOPA of 1986. New York sez if you’re stopped by law enforcement while traveling through the state with a gun in your car, you can use that when your case comes to trial- and after you’ve hired a law firm for $50K to represent you.
Of course you’ll win the case, but that’s after you’ve cooled your heels in jail for a year, lost your job and suffered financial ruin.

 

[WR Moore]

Mr Justice Thomas proved he read the US Attorney's brief-and fact checked it- when he observed that he hoped he wasn't trying to mislead the court with one of his case citations by leaving out important content.

They went on to discuss the citation in detail.

I don't expect that went over well with the court.

 

[dockmurgw]

Some might find this to be interesting reading.

SCOTUS Second Amendment Hearing Signals Justices Think There Are Too Many Gun Control Laws

 

[1075tech]

To be honest, I did not read the entire preceding posts.

What no one seems to understand, save maybe a few members here, is that in NYS, you cannot own a handgun unless you have a permit. It is not like some other states where you can buy but not carry unless you have a permit. You cannot purchase or possess a handgun unless you get the state's permission.

 

[sigp220.45]

I tend to agree with you.
A case in point? The FOPA of 1986. New York sez if you’re stopped by law enforcement while traveling through the state with a gun in your car, you can use that when your case comes to trial- and after you’ve hired a law firm for $50K to represent you.
Of course you’ll win the case, but that’s after you’ve cooled your heels in jail for a year, lost your job and suffered financial ruin.

They said the same thing about LEOSA, but I know plenty of cops and retirees from outside NYC who regularly carry there with no problems. LEOSA has been around for 17 years and I haven’t heard any horror stories yet.

Have there been FOPA horror stories? I looked but all I could find were the usual “don’t be a test case!” and “I called a cop he said not to” warnings. Has someone actually been arrested while in compliance with the law?

The closest I can find to a LEOSA horror story is a prison employee who was caught with a gun in her car and claimed LEOSA protection. She worked as a recreational aide but said all prison employees technically had the power to arrest inmates. She was never issued a gun, had no firearms training, and had never qualified with anything, yet the court was actually considering her defense. Not sure how it turned out for her - not well, I guess.

I bet NY will comply with the Supremes.

 

[luvsmiths]

To be honest, I did not read the entire preceding posts.

What no one seems to understand, save maybe a few members here, is that in NYS, you cannot own a handgun unless you have a permit. It is not like some other states where you can buy but not carry unless you have a permit. You cannot purchase or possess a handgun unless you get the state's permission.

Same in CT.

 

[wessonblitzar]

^^^ This is certainly correct

However, my experience is that the Supreme Court typically takes cases to tell the lower courts that they are getting something wrong.

In this case, the lower Courts are treating the Second Amendment as a second class right and requiring citizens to prove that they can be forced to show why they should be allowed to exercise that right.

I see good reason to think there could be a resounding win for the Second Amendment.

But of course, we have no way of knowing in advance of the actual decision

Spot on from what I have seen as well.

 

[1075tech]

They said the same thing about LEOSA, but I know plenty of cops and retirees from outside NYC who regularly carry there with no problems. LEOSA has been around for 17 years and I haven’t heard any horror stories yet.

Have there been FOPA horror stories? I looked but all I could find were the usual “don’t be a test case!” and “I called a cop he said not to” warnings. Has someone actually been arrested while in compliance with the law?

The closest I can find to a LEOSA horror story is a prison employee who was caught with a gun in her car and claimed LEOSA protection. She worked as a recreational aide but said all prison employees technically had the power to arrest inmates. She was never issued a gun, had no firearms training, and had never qualified with anything, yet the court was actually considering her defense. Not sure how it turned out for her - not well, I guess.

I bet NY will comply with the Supremes.

I wouldn't bet on NY complying with anything. The communists that run this state do what they want with impunity.

As far as FOPA goes - a few years ago not too far from me, there was a lady traveling through the area from Texas to New England. She was transporting a handgun in a locked case, etc., etc.

She ran short on money for gas and stopped at a gun store to see if they (FFL) would buy the pistol. I won't get into the bs that immediately followed, but she was ultimately arrested and charged by the state gestapo for having a pistol without a permit. I don't know the ultimate outcome. Most of these types of cases are pled down to some bs misdemeanor because NY knows they stand a good chance of losing if the case should make it to a higher court.

The last case involving NYC was ruled moot because they changed the law before the hearing because they knew they were wrong and would lose

 

[bushmaster1313]

Virginia changes it’s position under the new Governor

Following the change in Administration on January 15, 2022, the Attorney General has reconsidered Virginia’s position in this case. The purpose of this letter is to notify the Court that Virginia no longer adheres to the arguments contained in its previously filed brief. Virginia is now of the view that New York’s handgun permit regime is irreconcilable with the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, which secures an individual right to bear arms outside the home for self-defense.

 

[gerhard1]

Not true

If Supreme Court says that New York must be Shall Issue something will change, at least in New York. Happened in D.C.

Good point.

 

[2152hq]

I wouldn't bet on NY complying with anything. The communists that run this state do what they want with impunity.

As far as FOPA goes - a few years ago not too far from me, there was a lady traveling through the area from Texas to New England. She was transporting a handgun in a locked case, etc., etc.

She ran short on money for gas and stopped at a gun store to see if they (FFL) would buy the pistol. I won't get into the bs that immediately followed, but she was ultimately arrested and charged by the state gestapo for having a pistol without a permit. I don't know the ultimate outcome. Most of these types of cases are pled down to some bs misdemeanor because NY knows they stand a good chance of losing if the case should make it to a higher court.

.........

I know this is an old posting,,but to clarify something about NYS FFL holders and handgun transactions in NYS,,
When you have an FFL in NYS and want to also deal in Handguns,,you need to have a separate 'NYS Dealers License'.
OK, now you have both an FFL and a NYS Firearms Dealers License.

BUT, as a NYS Dealer license holder, you can only buy or accept for transfer a handgun within NYS from another NYS Dealer License holder or a NYS P/P holder. The handgun in the latter instance must show on the Permit holders NYS P/P.
If the handgun is coming in from out of state,,it must come to you from an FFL source out of State. Include valid FFL license copy

(FWIW,,NYS Gunsmiths (Handgun) can only accept handguns from NYS P/P holders, NYS Dealer License holders or other FFL's from out of state.
Gunsmithing Handguns requires yet another NYS Gunsmithing License along with an 01 FFL.)

So the NYS Gunshop FFL could not legally 'buy' the handgun from the lady from Texas over the counter.
The FFL's NYS Handgun records would have had to show the aquisition being from a NYS P/P holder or another NYS Dealer or an out of state FFL.

Sorry Ma'am, can't help you with your $$ issue.

...Who & why the cops were called on her is another story.

 

[Miami_JBT]

Not true

If Supreme Court says that New York must be Shall Issue something will change, at least in New York. Happened in D.C.

And like Washington DC, NYC will make the vast majority of NYC a gun free zone.

Sure, you can apply for a permit in Washington DC after jumping through the multitude of hoops But you can't actually carry it anywhere.

 

[Miami_JBT]

I wouldn't bet on NY complying with anything. The communists that run this state do what they want with impunity.

As far as FOPA goes - a few years ago not too far from me, there was a lady traveling through the area from Texas to New England. She was transporting a handgun in a locked case, etc., etc.

She ran short on money for gas and stopped at a gun store to see if they (FFL) would buy the pistol. I won't get into the bs that immediately followed, but she was ultimately arrested and charged by the state gestapo for having a pistol without a permit. I don't know the ultimate outcome. Most of these types of cases are pled down to some bs misdemeanor because NY knows they stand a good chance of losing if the case should make it to a higher court.

The last case involving NYC was ruled moot because they changed the law before the hearing because they knew they were wrong and would lose

FOPA is useless.... it is an Affirmative defense much like LEOSA. You might beat the rap, but your won't beat the ride. And in FOPA's case, you won't even beat the rap due to the fact that FOPA is so poorly written, to include the fact that if you are flying from Florida to Maine and due to weather, you are detoured to New York and land there and the airline puts you in a hotel and you go back to check your gun at the luggage terminal. Congrats, you're under arrest.

Yes, they rendered the case moot.

 

[wellthought1]

This case could very well establish Constitutional Carry in every state if presented and decided correctly to the SCOTUS.

 

[bushmaster1313]

No decision as of May 23

 

[Racer X]

No decision as of May 23

is there a timeline, or is it a some day or maybe never situation?

 

[bushmaster1313]

is there a timeline, or is it a some day or maybe never situation?

The next possible day for a decision is Tuesday May 31

After that, the possible days are:
June 6
June 13
June 21 and
June 27.

For some reason the decisions in the big important cases at the Supreme Court seem to wait until June. But we have every reason to expect a decision before the end of June.

Supreme Court Schedule published here

 

[ladder13]

It’s pretty obvious that with all the Constitutional Carry states, now the majority in America, having to show you have some special need to carry is out of the norm.

 

[smoothshooter]

I would like to see the Court rule our way, but in reality, if that happens NYC will ignore it and do as they please. They know lawsuits against NY State or NYC for non-compliance with the Court’s ruling can take years to wind their way thru the legal system.

 

[bushmaster1313]

It’s pretty obvious that with all the Constitutional Carry states, now the majority in America, having to show you have some special need to carry is out of the norm.

Add to the Constitutional carry states all the shall issue states and it is up to about 41 states where anyone allowed to possess a gun can carry without a permit or get a permit to carry.

In this sense, the delay in having this case heard has helped push the needle towards a decision that “May issue” is unconstitutional.

But the real question before the Supreme Court is much deeper:

Can the government require a person to show a special need over and above the public’s average need as a condition to receive a permit to exercise a right enshrined in the Bill of Rights.