newbie ques. bad boy .45/185g bullet seating depth

[1magi]

Howdy there, I am fairly new to reloading and I am loading .45 Bad Boy hard cast 185g SWC's for a Springfield Loaded target model.It seems I have to set the edge of the shoulder flush with the case mouth for it to headspace on the case. If I do that I am left with an OAL of 1.111 which seems very short. I am taper crimping to .469 to .470. Is it correct to set the shoulder corner even with the rim of the case or is there a way to leave the bullet set out with a longer OAL longer and still be able to head space off the case?
Thank you for any info you share, this is a great site... 1magi

 

[1magi]

Howdy there, I am fairly new to reloading and I am loading .45 Bad Boy hard cast 185g SWC's for a Springfield Loaded target model.It seems I have to set the edge of the shoulder flush with the case mouth for it to headspace on the case. If I do that I am left with an OAL of 1.111 which seems very short. I am taper crimping to .469 to .470. Is it correct to set the shoulder corner even with the rim of the case or is there a way to leave the bullet set out with a longer OAL longer and still be able to head space off the case?
Thank you for any info you share, this is a great site... 1magi

 

[dennis40x]

You would want a slight amount of the full body diameter to extend past the case lip. Approximately .015-.045in works in my various 1911 models.

This is about the best I can do at 50yds standing any more.

 

[1magi]

Thanks dennis40x, My first round I did that and the cartridge didn't let the barrel lock up, it wouldn't seat all the way and jammed and that was with a .470 case taper. It is a national match barrel so I wondered if it had tighter tolerances. I will try another round as you recommended and see if it will chamber.
Also...I hate to admit it, but your comment "This is the best I can do at fifty yards standing any more..." is about as good as I can do consistently at fifty feet! To me that is some darn good shootin... 1magi

 

[Horace Smith]

dennis40x -- Great pics!!! What is the case band on the 3rd round from the right?

Thanks in advance:

 

[dennis40x]

Originally posted by 1magi:
Thanks dennis40x, My first round I did that and the cartridge didn't let the barrel lock up, it wouldn't seat all the way and jammed and that was with a .470 case taper. It is a national match barrel so I wondered if it had tighter tolerances. I will try another round as you recommended and see if it will chamber.
1magi

My reload crimp diameter .4680/.4675in and the major case base diameter on average is .472in. For Remington Ball Match Grade (Year-1960) crimp diameter is the same as employed on my reloads and the major case base diameter is 4.71in. Lyman’s 49th Ed for the 45ACP .473in crimp diameter and major case base diameter of .476in. I believe Lyman is listing maximum tolerance dimensions.

You may want to contact Springfield and request information on their “Match Grade” chamber tolerances.

As for my shooting ability it’s not that great my salad days are long over. The better shooters would clean my clock today. I just don’t have the dedication to it that was there in my younger days.

 

[dennis40x]

Originally posted by Horace Smith:
dennis40x -- Great pics!!! What is the case band on the 3rd round from the right?

Thanks in advance:

Left to right: Starline - R&P - WCC 76 & Win NT

 

[1magi]

Thanks to you once again dennis40x, great info. I won't be back at the bench for a few days but I will post my results back here in case you are curious about my results. 1magi

 

[BE Mike]

Originally posted by dennis40x:

You would want a slight amount of the full body diameter to extend past the case lip. Approximately .015-.045in works in my various 1911 models.

This is about the best I can do at 50yds standing any more.

Look out Brian Zins!

 

[Dale53]

1magi;
To properly judge the overall length for YOUR 1911 platform (I presume the pistol IS a 1911). Remove the barrel from the pistol. Hold it vertical with the chamber up. Seat the bullet so that when the cartridge is dropped in the barrel the base of the case is flush with the barrel hood.

This seats the bullet against the barrel lead (pronounced "LEED" ) and gives you full support for the firing pin strike leading to consistent ignition. The bullet will control your headspace. Normally, this length will also function more reliably. This typically leaves a bit of the shoulder extending from the case for trouble free functioning.

If you use jacketed bullets, you may need to seat the bullet a few thousandths deeper. The occasional long round will seat into the rifling, if lead, but will not if jacketed.

.470" at the end of the case is the diameter I taper crimp to. My bullets are either the H&G #130 (195 grs) or the Saeco #68 (195 grs).

Dennis40;
That target looks to score a 96 or 97 and that is excellent shooting. I shot a pair of 94's slow fire last fall and felt pretty good (with my 625). Heck, even seeing yours, I STILL feel pretty good at my age (73)

.

Dale53

 

[1magi]

Hey Dale53...Thanks a bunch, that information is really easy to follow and yes it is a Springer 1911.I didn't know you could use the bullet to head space, I thought it had to space on the rim.Between you and dennis40x you're going to get me dialed in. I'll be loading this weekend; thanks again guys... 1magi

 

[dennis40x]

Originally posted by Dale53:
1magi;
To properly judge the overall length for YOUR 1911 platform (I presume the pistol IS a 1911). Remove the barrel from the pistol. Hold it vertical with the chamber up. Seat the bullet so that when the cartridge is dropped in the barrel the base of the case is flush with the barrel hood.
Dale53

Not intended to be argumentative but placing it in perspective. I’ve done the same thing using the barrel chamber as a gauge. This won’t guarantee the ammunition functionality in that particular pistol but it eliminates the problematic fit and headspace issues related to chambering. The 1911 pistol is sensitive to bullet shape/configuration. While this problematic occurrence has been reduced it has not been eliminated. Throating, magazines, and related tweaking are important part in compatibility.

I have 1911 pistols of various manufactures and other semiautomatic pistols of differing design in 45ACP. The S&W 4506 is my standard reference to determine reloaded ammunition quality. If the ammunition feeds, chambers, fires and accurate in the S&W 4506 then the ammunition is not the problem. The S&W 4506 is the only pistol I’ve owned that out Glocks the Glock in reliability. 1911 pistols with 230Gr-FMJ ball in my experience are reliable also.

Of recent manufactured 1911 pistols representative of Colt, Springfield and S&W two of the three function fine with a standard target load. The third pistol chokes on the same standard target load I’ve load employed for decades. This happens on occasion.

 

[Dale53]

dennis40x;
None of what you say is wrong, but I have shot 75,000 rounds of SWC .45ACP (full house) through two different 1911's that have had the full course of conversion to a tried and true (accurate AND reliable) pistol without a SINGLE failure to feed or eject.

A GOOD pistol, properly managed seldom malfunctions. About on a par with a good revolver.

In that five year period I had ONE failure that was related to ME as an operator and NOT to my pistol.

My pistols were/are tuned to SWC's and are reliable. Standard army issue .45's were only reliable with standard hardball but WERE reliable with them.

I have seen out of the box Kimbers that have done well, also (and I am sure there are other good manufacturers of autos).

Bottom line, if you pistol is not reliable with your ammo of choice than get it to a good smith and it can be.

Dale53

 

[1magi]

Hi there....Made it out to the bench and loaded 100 flush with the hood which left only about 0 to .010 of the shoulder sticking out. (I didn't trim the cases)It functioned fine and seems very accurate, though it is a fairly light load. 185g LSWC (Bad boy brand), federal match primers and 4.8 grains of Unique. I don't own a chrono so can't report velocity. Thanks once more to all of you for your help.... I hope over time I can be on the giving end of the information chain!
1magi