nightmare

[Trons]

So, took the family to Omaha NE last week for vacation. Beautiful City. Looks like it was made for walkers/walking. Sidewalks everywhere. My wife and daughter went for a walk one evening and the weather was beautiful. My soon to be son in law and I went out out in search of some flesh of a dead animal to char on the grill. I get a frantic call from my daughter. Her and my wife were shot, in a drive by, with paint balls. My SIL immediately flips a u-turn, safely runs a red light or two as we rush to them. When we get there, we hear the story, as the cops are showing up.

Apparently, on that particular day, teenagers were running around in a white car (Cops had make, model and plate number but wouldn't give it to us) shooting people out for an evening stroll. They were heading west and the spree had started about 45min before my wife and daughter got shot. My wife stated she thought she had been shot for real until she saw the yellow on her shirt. Both were visibly shaken. We took them back to my daughters house made sure everybody was okay and went back out for that previously mentioned flesh.

My SIL made the comment it was a shame I wasn't with them because I was armed. I realized, even though I hadn't thought it through before than, that would be a horrible thing for anybody to do.

My wife said the paint ball guns sounded similar to a suppressed firearm a friend brought over. She heard "pop, pop, pop" then felt the sting (both had nasty welts). I've never been around a paint ball gun so I don't know what they sound like.

I can't help but think that had I been there, and the adrenaline started flowing after the shots and sting, I would have drawn my weapon and returned fire...possibly killing a teenager with a paint ball gun.

My wife doesn't carry and after this event doesn't show any inclination of changing that. I'm okay with that.

My question is: Has anybody else been in a situation where you thought you were in danger but really weren't? To me, this is an example of why we need to train and be super aware and careful before we pull the trigger. I may be overthinking this. I never thought something like this would happen. It has opened my eyes.

 

[gman51]

Probably a good thing you weren't there. If the paintballs were red and you heard a pop and then saw your wife covered in red then you might have pulled and shot your gun. It could have been worse than it was for sure.
Getting hit with a paintball on bare skin is not fun either.

 

[Ozark Marine]

Your overthinking it. The next time it could be for real and you'll hesitate. You, your wife, daughter and others innocent people could be dead.

 

[chud333]

You would have been alright in my book to draw.
You don't know if the guns are real or not.
It would worry me, not one bit, if said perps
fired on my family and ended up in black plastic bags.
Identify where the fire is coming from and react.

They chose to play stupid games, they win stupid prizes.

Chuck

 

[Kronos]

Meh-again I say if someone is stupid it can hurt,sometimes in a very fatal fashion,if someone did that to me and I shot someone all I can say is "whoops"

 

[snuffy51]

Ditto Chuck, and Ozark brought up a very strong point. The idiots point and fire what could be a weapon, I don't think I would have taken time to make sure it was real or not. You can defend yourself and loved ones from an assault. Maybe they will be lucky enough for the police to catch them, and they aren't stupid enough to point even a paintball GUN at a cop with all the senseless stuff going on nowadays. Bad idea to depend on luck. Always be safe.

 

[BB57]

You would have been alright in my book to draw.
You don't know if the guns are real or not.
It would worry me, not one bit, if said perps
fired on my family and ended up in black plastic bags.
Identify where the fire is coming from and react.

They chose to play stupid games, they win stupid prizes.

Chuck

For what it's worth, I agree - but it's not your opinion or mine that would matter in this case.

Lets' assume for a minute that the teenagers in question shot at an off duty Omaha police officer. The officer most likely would have returned fire, not waiting to find out or confirm that the "weapons" were paint ball guns. In this case had the officer hit one or more of the teenagers, it would probably have been regarded as a "mistake of fact" shooting where the officer reasonably believed the person was armed and that a threat existed.

The courts have traditionally given LEOs a great deal of latitude in mistake of fact shootings because if the daily threat they face. Despite all the negative press, aspersions that were cast, and claims that the incident was white washed, the Tamir Rice incident in Cleveland isn't in fact all that unusual. A 12 or 13 year old kid with what looks like a firearm pointing it at an officer in an area where gang violence is possible is a solid recipe to get shot, simply because most reasonable police officers would similarly believe a threat existed in that situation.

----

On the other hand, the same latitude in mistake of fact shootings usually does not extend to an armed citizen and avoiding criminal charges or a civlil suit is far less certain.

Whether you are charged will depend in large part on the local laws pertaining to the use of deadly force. For example, VA is an affirmative defense state where the use of deadly force by an armed citizen results in a charge of second degree murder, with the shooter being required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the homicide was justifiable due to a legitimate use of self defense. Remember that in an affirmative defense state, the burden of proof is on you.

It may also depend to some extent on whether the police make an arrest. If an arrest is made, it puts pressure on the prosecutor to charge the case rather than appear soft on crime, guns, etc. Worse, if you are white and shot a minority, the prosecutor may face public pressure to charge the case, and be accused of being racist if he or she doesn't.

If he or she is an elected official, the prosecutor, may also have an anti-gun agenda and may want to make an example or a political statement. If he or she is not elected but the person who appointed the prosecutor is elected (mayor, etc), the same problem may exist.

----

In this situation, the best defense after the shoot is still to make a very simple declarative statement that you were in fear for your life - then shut up, and lawyer up.

Your attorney can bring up the more subtle points such as paint balls can still put out an eye and thus still pose the threat of serious bodily injury. The last thing you'd want to do in making an initial statement is to imply in any way that at any time during the shoot, you started to understand they were shooting paintballs rather than bullets.

 

[pinoakflats]

Question for the OP

I pretty much agree with all of the previous responses. But one question that crossed my mind that might inform the appropriate response; you stated that it was a drive by shooting. Does that mean that the vehicle the teens were in kept moving down the road while they were shooting, or did they pull up and stop and open fire before moving on?
If they kept moving, I wonder how far down the road would they have been before I drew my gun and returned fire. And if that was the case would I be scrutinized for firing when the threat had moved on?
Splitting hairs I know, but curious.

 

[jdebarto]

I'm shocked with all these shootings anyone would shoot paintballs out of a car at people. Good way to get shot.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

 

[BaldEagle1313]

I pretty much agree with all of the previous responses. But one question that crossed my mind that might inform the appropriate response; you stated that it was a drive by shooting. Does that mean that the vehicle the teens were in kept moving down the road while they were shooting, or did they pull up and stop and open fire before moving on?
If they kept moving, I wonder how far down the road would they have been before I drew my gun and returned fire. And if that was the case would I be scrutinized for firing when the threat had moved on?
Splitting hairs I know, but curious.

I don't think that's splitting hairs. You aren't the police. My thought as well was that if it's a drive-by, and the car is gone down the road, then being prepared to fire if the car turns around and comes back is a prudent thing to do. Firing at it as it drives away is going to get you in serious hot water with the legal system, both criminal and civil. Even if you are cleared of criminal charges you can bet there'll be a lawsuit by the perps, and they'll win.

 

[Protected One]

So, took the family to Omaha NE last week for vacation. Beautiful City. Looks like it was made for walkers/walking. Sidewalks everywhere. My wife and daughter went for a walk one evening and the weather was beautiful. My soon to be son in law and I went out out in search of some flesh of a dead animal to char on the grill. I get a frantic call from my daughter. Her and my wife were shot, in a drive by, with paint balls. My SIL immediately flips a u-turn, safely runs a red light or two as we rush to them. When we get there, we hear the story, as the cops are showing up.

Apparently, on that particular day, teenagers were running around in a white car (Cops had make, model and plate number but wouldn't give it to us) shooting people out for an evening stroll. They were heading west and the spree had started about 45min before my wife and daughter got shot. My wife stated she thought she had been shot for real until she saw the yellow on her shirt. Both were visibly shaken. We took them back to my daughters house made sure everybody was okay and went back out for that previously mentioned flesh.

My SIL made the comment it was a shame I wasn't with them because I was armed. I realized, even though I hadn't thought it through before than, that would be a horrible thing for anybody to do.

My wife said the paint ball guns sounded similar to a suppressed firearm a friend brought over. She heard "pop, pop, pop" then felt the sting (both had nasty welts). I've never been around a paint ball gun so I don't know what they sound like.

I can't help but think that had I been there, and the adrenaline started flowing after the shots and sting, I would have drawn my weapon and returned fire...possibly killing a teenager with a paint ball gun.

My wife doesn't carry and after this event doesn't show any inclination of changing that. I'm okay with that.

My question is: Has anybody else been in a situation where you thought you were in danger but really weren't? To me, this is an example of why we need to train and be super aware and careful before we pull the trigger. I may be overthinking this. I never thought something like this would happen. It has opened my eyes.

I thought I was in danger once, and may have been. I had a guy reach slowly inside his jacket (cross draw) while saying he was going to shoot me. My hand went to my holstered glock at 5:00. Seeing me do this, he didn't withdraw his hand, and thus I didn't draw my glock - just kept a firm firing grip. Eventually he backed off, while spouting expletives.

Your wifes situation was a sad testament to the state of youth today. From my perspective, had you been there and drawn and fired you would have been well within your rights...even if the car was driving away. Having fired on someone makes them STILL a threat. I wouldn't overthink it though. Having been fired on places you firmly in the position of defending yourself. If the shooter is using a paintball gun then THEY are the ones who have placed themselves in jeopardy, and any severe consequences is their burden - not yours.

 

[Smoke]

I threw down on a cow at work one night. No shots were fired though

 

[Mainsail]

I'm not a gun owner that blindly supports gun use no matter what the circumstance, however, if I were on the jury in such a case my conscious would not allow me to convict. Nobody can be expected to know all the facts in the heat of the moment, and you shouldn't have to die trying to sort it all out in that moment. If all you could possibly know is that you are being shot at, then returning fire is the normal and appropriate response.

 

[Trons]

OP here, my point was mainly that, as I stated in my OP, I don't think I could sleep at night, regardless of how clean a kill it was, knowing I had shot somebody over a paint ball shooting. It has really put into perspective how important it is, for me, to make sure I am actually defending myself and not just in a fit...if that makes sense.

 

[GypsmJim]

Some posters said they weren't "real". I beg to differ.

Other said they weren't in danger. Bullcrap again.

What if the paintball had hit the person in the eye? It could have changed their life forever. Or, even killed them. What if the person had a heart attack and died?

Thank God nobody got hurt. But, returning fire IMHO would have been justified.

 

[Ozark Marine]

Stop with the overthinking. None of us want to kill. But If I see my family or friend's falling to the deck or wincing in pain as if shot the punks driving or walking with a gun, are history. Won't loose any sleep over it. Hope it never happens, but this is a dangerous world. Be ready to protect those who can't fight back.

 

[GypsmJim]

Thinking more about this just infuriates me.

We have kids going around shooting each other with paintball. We have video games encouraging the kids to shoot each other.

Last night Arnold Schwatzenager was in an ad on TV to join a wargame on TV to kill people.

Where does it end.

Then, some idiot goes and buys a gun and kills a whole lot of people for real, and we wonder why.

Kids are desensitized. We need to outlaw video games, paintball and TV. Its too easy to outlaw the gun and not the root cause of the problem

 

[Old cop]

I was a young uniformed officer I confronted what I thought (radio transmissions) was an armed robber. I pointed my issued Model 15 at him and he put his hand inside his waistband, which was covered by a jacket. As I was pulling on the trigger, swearing at him in my loudest voice, he took out an empty hand and laughed at me. I told him I almost killed him and asked why he did this. He was a kid not much younger than me and said he was playing.

 

[Mainsail]

...I don't think I could sleep at night, regardless of how clean a kill it was, knowing I had shot somebody over a paint ball shooting.

First, I don't believe anyone will sleep at night after shooting and killing another person no matter how justified they were in doing so.

Second, where do you personally draw the line? In other words, what does someone have to do to you or your family to cause you to shoot to stop them? Note your answer here: ________________

How, in the heat of the moment, do you determine their motive and how far they intend to take their attack? Do you believe it will be so plainly obvious that you could tell the difference between an attacker who is bluffing with his weapon and has no intention of harming a hair on your head whether you cooperate or not, one that will kill you only if you don't cooperate, and one that intends to kill you regardless of your cooperation?

You cannot possibly know for sure, and sure is necessary since your death is irreversible. You must know, and you must know immediately-- That condition does not exist in this world.

That young man that's robbing your family might (a) let you go on your way once you hand over your wallet, keys, and wife's jewelry, or (b) he may shoot you. If you shoot him first and he dies you will never know if the answer was (a) or (b). That young man shooting at you from a moving car might be using a paintball gun, or it could be a suppressed 9mm and it's pure fantasy to believe you will know anything for sure in the moment. You need to consider whether carrying a weapon capable of deadly force is the best choice for you.

 

[Ransom]

Thinking more about this just infuriates me.

We have kids going around shooting each other with paintball. We have video games encouraging the kids to shoot each other.

Last night Arnold Schwatzenager was in an ad on TV to join a wargame on TV to kill people.

Where does it end.

Then, some idiot goes and buys a gun and kills a whole lot of people for real, and we wonder why.

Kids are desensitized. We need to outlaw video games, paintball and TV. Its too easy to outlaw the gun and not the root cause of the problem

Playing video games and paintball don't cause kids to shoot people with guns. They know the difference. Outlawing video games, paintball and TV? Bhahaha! [emoji38]