No. 2 cleanup

The phony "Authentication" needs to be delegated to the outhouse for use by the next occupant. The assembly/work code of 06 or 90 are the only stamped numbers that might match. I think the gun has been refinished at sometime in it's past, as the side plate is easily distinguished in your photo, due to over buffing for the nickel plating. If the grips are not numbered to the gun, they are not original, so why waste time trying to glue them? Find an original uncracked pair on Ebay or from a parts supplier. Ed.
 
IMO it's not « 09 » (zero nine) or « 60 » (six zero) but « O9 ».
Mine has « A0 » stamped on the frame.
I'm wondering if the letter isn't for the inspector name.

By the way 5 inches are scarce, usuallly there are more 6 inches barrel length.
 
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I would not say that 5" Model 2 is scarce, since 25% of those in the SWCA database are 5" and that would represent around 18,000 to 20,000 made. I have watched and sold 5" and 6" Model 2 revolvers in the past and saw no particular increase in value amongst the bidders.

I believe the assembly numbers/letters were pretty much random. I think the fitters just picked and logged two symbol stamps so the parts come back together when finished. According to mathematicians, there are between 1260 and 1296 distinct two symbol codes available. That would mean that the assembly codes are repeated with every 1300 or so guns made.

Since stocks were hand fitted to the frames, which were all finished with different tolerances, they got a serial number before final finish instead of the assembly number. Inspectors would not have been involved with the process until after the gun was complete and being readied for shipment, while the stamps were applied before the final finishing was done to the parts.
 
I think the stocks match the gun. I enlarged the image and the serial number on the right stock seems to be 71591.
Exactly right it is numbered to the gun.
What I've decided to do is continue with the wood cleaner until I have naked wood. Then fill the crack with wood putty, the back of the left grip is not flat (because of over tighten the screws). Then use Tru Oil to refinish.
Tell me why not?
 
I would use glue instead of putty. You want to strengthen and stabilize the crack, so it will not end up splitting someday. Putty provides no adhesion. I would suggest a clear Gorilla Glue or gel Super Glue. Work it into and fill the cracks to provide exceptional strength. Easy to smooth out. Let's face it, the crack will not go away unless you actually bend the stock back to flat, but that could split it. These stocks originally had a high gloss finish, so a few applications of Tru-Oil will provide the same appearance. No harm, no foul and I think it will increase the appeal and appearance of the gun.
 
Thanks

Thanks Gary, that is what I'll do. The dadgum crack actually goes thru the serial number and the pilot hole in the grip so I'm going to stay clear of that. If I get lucky or good at the same time i"ll post picts.
 
The way I would strip off the finish is to use a product called " citrus strip " . It is water based , will continue to work for up to 24 hrs , is non toxic and biodegradable . You can find it usually at any ace , home depot , lowes etc . It is orange in color and kind of smells like oranges . I have had really great luck using it on various finishes . Regards, Paul
 
I would use glue instead of putty. You want to strengthen and stabilize the crack, so it will not end up splitting someday. Putty provides no adhesion. I would suggest a clear Gorilla Glue or gel Super Glue. Work it into and fill the cracks to provide exceptional strength. Easy to smooth out. Let's face it, the crack will not go away unless you actually bend the stock back to flat, but that could split it. These stocks originally had a high gloss finish, so a few applications of Tru-Oil will provide the same appearance. No harm, no foul and I think it will increase the appeal and appearance of the gun.

Gary,

Spot on that that crack needs to be flushed and cleaned. As tight at the crack may be, can't use any serious abrasives. Sort of limited to different stiffness and thickness brushes.

I wouldn't be afraid to submerge the both of the stock (because they will have to match when the job is done) overnight with one of the suggested finish removers / stripper and it should just roll off with the whisk of an old toothbrush. Key here is they need to flushed / neutralized even better than they were soaked in the remover.

Weren't the original vintage factory finish, after proper preparation, sanding and perhaps rubbing ... a shellac type base. Organic and natural, of course. No synthetics back then. I have seen some very skillfully redone using a modern synthetic shellac that doesn't yellow over time, nor peel ... if the preparation was done correctly.

I once ventured to do a vintage pair in automotive (remember I had a auto restoration shop) urethane clear with a little extra reducer to dry slower and flatter, done in 2-3 light coats instead of going for the gusto in one thicker coat.

That urethane clear method works "aces" on more modern smooth S&W Stocks, (e.g. the combat grips) to rave reviews where it would not be proper for checkered stocks. But the hard part of removing the medallions to do a proper job, it seems the backyard / basement gunsmith enthusiast usually does not do.

If the medallions on the newer grips need to be changed there are several types out there available. You would prefer the originals, of course, but there are so many available that are not (I feel) original S&W parts.

The key is to look into the S&W emblem for sharp detail compared to an original. Most of the replacement medallions I've seen offered for sale eare "soft" as if they could have been casted from an original then remake from the copy cast. I "lucked" into a small bag of about 20 with washers many years ago. These are the modern type, e.g. 1950s to 1980s appx.

Spraying the urethane on too thick makes it appear trashy, I think. But when done properly are nearly equivalent to show pieces.

If a vintage smooth set of stocks were nice enough I would just hand rub them (after the original finish has been stripped off carefully and any tiny nicks lightly sanded out) with a Roper method / tip he wrote in one of is books ... suggested to revive a set of dulling Roper stocks. Not exactly sure (without reference in hand) but was a few drops of something (shellac ? ) mixed in with lemon oil * ?? emphasizing on the RUBBING (laborious) part of the process. * was it lemon oil ? Please correct me on this if you recall something similar.

On the checkered stocks I'd use nitro-cellulose lacquer clear mixed extremely light / thin but that is now nearly impossible to find unless you get it imported from Europe.

If you see a set of dry 1970s (or there about) checkered stocks turning whitish, they were finished with acrylic lacquer clear. This comes right off when you need to redo a set of this type stock with a light brushing and no chemicals. while you may still see hints of the whitish acrylic lacquer a new light coat will melt that back in or over that it would be undetectable. You can likely get away with just making an adhesive perfectly round masking dot to cover the medallion on these.

A few German car manufactures still used nitrocellulose Lacquer clear on certain small applications, but not for full auto finishes any more. The Urethanes win out, hands down, over the older finishes where as Poly-Urethane and Epoxy paints are just too much for this application, I feel.

Nitro-cellulose lacquer soon became antiquated after the advent of Acrylic-Lacquer (for auto applications) sometime in the 1940s IIRC. Main reason is that it dries so much faster. What some refinishers overlook is that while it dries to the touch, quickly, you cannot pile it on coat after coat in rapid succession. It needs to harden "through" to cure and base properly.

In olden days the biggest time consumed by Ford in finishing his cars was the use of Enamel paint which takes forever to cure even when force-cured with lamps and or heat (baked). But, when dry .. (if sprayed correctly) lays flat and requires no buffing. Enamel is a nightmare to buff because it usually becomes gummy (no matter how old or how cured) with the heat of buffing. This frustrating and laborious buffing process on enamel is exceeded only with buffing out Poly Urethane because it becomes ROCK hard when cured. It is almost as laborious as buffing out marble or granite.
 
Why hasn't anyone suggested fixing these grips with hide glue?

I agree with the assessment that these grips were likely refinished (as others have said, the insides of these grips did not leave the factory with a finish on them), so it's probably best to strip them first. That will expose the naked wood grain in the crack.

Hide glue would be consistent with materials that were available in the 1860's, and it has the additional advantage of being soluble in the future.

Mike

I use hide glue all the time, but only hot hide glue I prepare fresh from pure "technical grade" raw materials. Glue joints assembled with fresh hot hide glue in tight fitting joints will last for centuries, yet are reversible should the need or desire arise.

Like most glues, they make poor fillers, if that is the suggested repair approach. Since the crack is on the inside, the proper "restoration" approach would be to clean out the crack and fit a piece of matching wood(probably a strip) and then glue it.
Probably easiest to work the crack to a consistent gap width, then use that as a way of dimensioning the filler strip. It should be a finger pressure tight fit.

If the crack were external, care would be needed to match the grain pattern.

If the joint is to be exposed to wide temperature and humidity variations, or solvents, then another glue might be better advised. There are marine grade epoxies that are intended for wood that would be a good choice.

Short cut methods, like just pouring in thick glue, adding sawdust, etc are amateur approaches that will just devalue the gun. Given the choice between doing it right and doing it wrong, if you can't go with the right way, just do nothing and leave it.

Jim
 
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About the only polymer that is resistant to acetone is polyropylene. They do make disposable PP gloves, but have not tried them.
Seems butyl gloves are also an option. Quick look tells that you could get a pair of resistant gloves with reasonable price, like under $20.

What about xylene as a cleaner/solvent, soaking metal parts in it instead of acetone to get all the hundreds of years of grime off? Usually next to acetone in paint shelves. Supposed to be good on glue/oil/grease etc., but more dangerous than acetone? So not worth the risk as acetone does ok job too?
 
Seems butyl gloves are also an option. Quick look tells that you could get a pair of resistant gloves with reasonable price, like under $20.

What about xylene as a cleaner/solvent, soaking metal parts in it instead of acetone to get all the hundreds of years of grime off?

Butyl rubber gloves do work, but have a time limit for use with acetone, usually 10 minutes breakthrough limit, so if you plan on using them several times, you will run the risk of breakthrough. Polypropylene is impermeable to acetone and will not degrade with repeated use. Still, I buy a box and throw them away after each use. To be honest, in the last 50 years or so I have used acetone to remove adhesives, paints, etc. off my hands, and have survived so far.

Dimethylbenzene (xylene) is a similar solvent, but will have different properties, requiring perhaps different glove materials. One of the advantages to acetone is that it will attack more materials, adhesives, oils, etc. and will leave literally no residue. The product evaporates without a trace left on cleaned surfaces.

The list of heavy duty chemical solvents are long, with acetone and xylene being the most available. Products like perchloroethylene, methylethylketone (MEK), dichloromethane, methylene chloride, trichloroethylene, etc. are not as available to the general public today
 
Butyl rubber gloves do work, but have a time limit for use with acetone, usually 10 minutes breakthrough limit, so if you plan on using them several times, you will run the risk of breakthrough. Polypropylene is impermeable to acetone and will not degrade with repeated use. Still, I buy a box and throw them away after each use. To be honest, in the last 50 years or so I have used acetone to remove adhesives, paints, etc. off my hands, and have survived so far.



Dimethylbenzene (xylene) is a similar solvent, but will have different properties, requiring perhaps different glove materials. One of the advantages to acetone is that it will attack more materials, adhesives, oils, etc. and will leave literally no residue. The product evaporates without a trace left on cleaned surfaces.



The list of heavy duty chemical solvents are long, with acetone and xylene being the most available. Products like perchloroethylene, methylethylketone (MEK), dichloromethane, methylene chloride, trichloroethylene, etc. are not as available to the general public today
Thanks for thorough answer. I had no luck finding PP gloves from google, but did find butyl ones. Found also some that claim to withstand acetone, but are made from nitrile and that is false advertising in my opinion. I never had any problems with different chemicals when working with bikes when I was younger, but haven't worked with them in a long while and when i did a quick job with plastic metal, dang that made me feel sick. That got me thinking that better safe than sorry and better get proper eye, breathing and hand protection.

Acetone and xylene are both perfectly safe for soaking metal parts? Won't hurt finish or harm the parts in any way?
 
. . . Acetone and xylene are both perfectly safe for soaking metal parts? Won't hurt finish or harm the parts in any way?

It has been several years since I purchased a box of disposable PP gloves and they were from a chemical supply laboratory. Don't know if they are still available or not. I do know that butyl gloves are available. Yes, both acetone and xylene are safe for blued metal surfaces, but not finished wood stocks. Even strong fumes might ruin a varnished set of stocks. There are several people that make up gun cleaning solutions with acetone and automatic transmission fluid, plus maybe other ingredients.
 
No 2

I finally got her back together. turned out fair
2020012810292729-IMG_5044-Th.jpg
 
Original Nickel

Aren't they rare in original nickel finish? Looks very well aged.
 
Reblued

Actually taking another close look at photo 1 shows a dark reblue on the trigger so I suppose the surface finish may have been helped also but it does present itself well.

Murph
 

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