No exit wound, Sierra Game Kings
- Thread starter beagleye
- Start date
DRT with a neck shot at 100 yards is a great thing.......... but
after 100 yards the "Deadliest Mushroom in the forest" for 75 years
does not do so well in my 270 and 30-6 for neck shots.
The .30 cal.150 flat base and 140 BT King in the 270 might work at 200 yards if dead calm and the animal frozen.
One reason it is nice to have enough room for a second follow up shot
if things don't work out.
They all work...............
just that I have to match the conditions to the bullet and load.
I loved the "Bronze point" factory load but they hit my wallet pretty hard.
Just that the 30-06 will shoot so many different types of bullets,
it is hard to put down.
after 100 yards the "Deadliest Mushroom in the forest" for 75 years
does not do so well in my 270 and 30-6 for neck shots.
The .30 cal.150 flat base and 140 BT King in the 270 might work at 200 yards if dead calm and the animal frozen.
One reason it is nice to have enough room for a second follow up shot
if things don't work out.
They all work...............
just that I have to match the conditions to the bullet and load.
I loved the "Bronze point" factory load but they hit my wallet pretty hard.
Just that the 30-06 will shoot so many different types of bullets,
it is hard to put down.
Interesting? You said that you had problems with Core-Lokts on neck shots with Deer? What kind of problem? Of the 20+ neck shots with 30-06 180 PSPCL they dropped in place. Ranges were under 150 yards. Also Black bear I have shot in the neck ( Spine) have DRT. Just curious as to what kind of problems you are haveing? Be Safe,
GypsmJim
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A 30-06 with game kings isn't the problem. Two issues I see here are shot placement and "late in the evening".
In 52 years of hunting deer I have never lost one. 98% have dropped in their tracks and the other 2% didn't run more than 50 yards.
First of all, you need to be SURE that your shot will be 100% accurate. If the deer is marginally far away or running, its time to wait for another shooting solution. Secondly, if by chance you flinch and make a bad shot you need to have ample time to track a wounded animal.
For us when it gets early in the evening we're already back at camp having a beer. There's always tomorrow.
In 52 years of hunting deer I have never lost one. 98% have dropped in their tracks and the other 2% didn't run more than 50 yards.
First of all, you need to be SURE that your shot will be 100% accurate. If the deer is marginally far away or running, its time to wait for another shooting solution. Secondly, if by chance you flinch and make a bad shot you need to have ample time to track a wounded animal.
For us when it gets early in the evening we're already back at camp having a beer. There's always tomorrow.
Without getting into the premium interlocks and bonded bullets I
have found Speer bullets to be "hardest". With Sierra coming in
second and Hornady the softest. I use to load 170gr Cor-loc in
30/06 and Rem discontinued them. Now load Sierra 180g RN.
I don't remember shooting a deer with them that they didn't exit.
When I started out deer hunting I was always buying Spitzers BTs I don't know why. They look more deadly than RN bullets. I have
been using RN, flat base bullets for deer in several calibres for
years. May not be as good as Spitzers for extreme distance but
eastern woods hunting that is not a issue. The farthest I have
shot a deer while hunting was 250yds. I'm only shooting 2600fps
and bullet exited at that distance with hole dime size.
have found Speer bullets to be "hardest". With Sierra coming in
second and Hornady the softest. I use to load 170gr Cor-loc in
30/06 and Rem discontinued them. Now load Sierra 180g RN.
I don't remember shooting a deer with them that they didn't exit.
When I started out deer hunting I was always buying Spitzers BTs I don't know why. They look more deadly than RN bullets. I have
been using RN, flat base bullets for deer in several calibres for
years. May not be as good as Spitzers for extreme distance but
eastern woods hunting that is not a issue. The farthest I have
shot a deer while hunting was 250yds. I'm only shooting 2600fps
and bullet exited at that distance with hole dime size.
BigBill
Absent Comrade
In my '06 I was using Speer 180gr magnum mag-tips I think there called hot for now. Behind IMR 4350. No penetration problem.
In my 338wm using Winchester super x 225gr pp the exit wound on a black bear was larger than a silver dollar and three ribs were shattered.
When I first started reloading I was near max with the powder charge. When I backed off a tad on the powder the accuracy dialed right in. My old 72 western auto mossberg 06 to this day shoots nickel sized groups at 100yds. Food for thought.
In my 338wm using Winchester super x 225gr pp the exit wound on a black bear was larger than a silver dollar and three ribs were shattered.
When I first started reloading I was near max with the powder charge. When I backed off a tad on the powder the accuracy dialed right in. My old 72 western auto mossberg 06 to this day shoots nickel sized groups at 100yds. Food for thought.
I agree, an exit wound increases the blood loss and makes it easier to track, if the heart is still pumping.
In terms of putting the animal down quickly, a hit in the upper chambers of the heart or the large arteries leading from it will essentially bottom out the blood pressure and stop new blood from flowing to the brain but there will still be enough oxygenated blood for the animal to run a good 50 yards.
The lower chambers of the heart are more muscular and a bit more self sealing. A hit there will allow an animal to run 100 yards or so before it loses blood pressure and goes down, but there may still not be much of a blood trail to follow.
Severing the spine is pretty much the only way to anchor the animal on the spot. But...a neck shot that misses the spine and major arteries greatly increases the risk of a wounded animal that can cover a lot of ground before it bleeds out.
Regardless of where I hit a deer, if the terrain will make tracking difficult, I'll just sit and wait 15 minutes. It gives the animal less reason to keep running and increases the probability it will find a place to just bed down, and once down it won't get back up and I end up doing a lot less tracking.
Much ado of nothing. The old load we've used forever is Sierra Game King 117 grain in 25-06, never had to track one down yet. Sierra GK in other calibers have never failed us either. People talk of premium bullets, I thought they WERE premium bullets. From everything I've ever heard, I thought punch through was a bad thing, it doesn't make any sense to me these people speaking of blowing up organs and having no punch through complaining, also hard to believe all the stories of people blowing up organs with hydrostatic shock having to track them down like you shot them in the leg or something. Strange thread in my opinion, certainly doesn't match my experience or that of what others have told me.
To many guys hit a deer and take off right behind it. If it has been hit good
it will lay down and not get back up if given 15 or 20 minutes. If it's a bad
hit you are not going to run it down anyway and will have a long track job.
They will lay down too but will spook out and run again, time after time. I
have seen deer that when dressed were carrying bullets in cyst like growths from meat shot. They had to be a least a year old because they
were more or less healed.
it will lay down and not get back up if given 15 or 20 minutes. If it's a bad
hit you are not going to run it down anyway and will have a long track job.
They will lay down too but will spook out and run again, time after time. I
have seen deer that when dressed were carrying bullets in cyst like growths from meat shot. They had to be a least a year old because they
were more or less healed.
one eye joe
US Veteran
IMHO---THE VERY BEST HUNTING BULLET ON THE PLANET IS THE NOSLER PARTITION.......
FOR A VERY INFORMATIVE TREATISE ON THE PERFORMANCE--OR LACK THEREOF--OF BULLETS LIKE THE GAME KING, SEARCH FOR "BULLET TECHNOLOGY" BY THE REAL GUNSMITH, ON YOUTUBE.....
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Agreed, the Nosler Partition is an excellent game bullet, certainly among the very best. Perhaps it is the best. However, I've tried the Partition in many cartridges and found that about a third of the rifles I've used it in won't shoot it particularly well. Other rifles will shoot it with passable hunting accuracy, then some will shoot it splendidly. If your rifle is one of the latter, go with the Partition.
This bullet argument can go on forever and I'm not going to delve deeper. Let it suffice to say we have lots of choices today. Try a variety of bullets and powders. Experiment with seating depths, etc. If you have any real interest in accuracy, you're already doing these things.
This bullet argument can go on forever and I'm not going to delve deeper. Let it suffice to say we have lots of choices today. Try a variety of bullets and powders. Experiment with seating depths, etc. If you have any real interest in accuracy, you're already doing these things.
per post #43;
problem was accuracy.
Both the C-L and the Partition do not group well for me at 200 yards in my rifles... but
Both are fantastic bullets when used with body shots.
The 140 Acc-Bond in the 270 is a killer on Elk and almost matches a 30-06 180 gr's energy.
I just have a 4x scope on my 30-06, so I can't fine tune my shots at long range, like some that carry 18 power....
and I do not like the chance of wounding deer with a bullet that might veer left or right and do minimal damage on a neck shot.
Like I said, they all work.
Before I reloaded I shot a lot of power points and Remington ammo.
As a note, my Win. M100 semi did great with 150 Cor-Lock ammo, don't get the idea that I don't like it.
Just that for paper accuracy or $$$ games, I shoot other bullets.
problem was accuracy.
Both the C-L and the Partition do not group well for me at 200 yards in my rifles... but
Both are fantastic bullets when used with body shots.
The 140 Acc-Bond in the 270 is a killer on Elk and almost matches a 30-06 180 gr's energy.
I just have a 4x scope on my 30-06, so I can't fine tune my shots at long range, like some that carry 18 power....
and I do not like the chance of wounding deer with a bullet that might veer left or right and do minimal damage on a neck shot.
Like I said, they all work.
Before I reloaded I shot a lot of power points and Remington ammo.
As a note, my Win. M100 semi did great with 150 Cor-Lock ammo, don't get the idea that I don't like it.
Just that for paper accuracy or $$$ games, I shoot other bullets.
OP
beagleye
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I will politely defend myself against a couple of the posts here, with out wanting to start another forum squabble. And I get the impression that not everyone read the thread before posting replies.
But everybody has an opinion, that's fine. Mine is I like an exit wound. I started using game kings HPBT this year and 4 deer later, no exit wounds, the bullets are fragmenting in the extreme. I am probably loading these bullets up too hot.
All deer were recovered, none got up after laying down. Vitals were toast.
Bullet placement was as good as could be hoped for-
120 yards- shoulder shot- struggled down hill for 50 yards, weak blood trail, no exit
100 yards- shoulder shot- DRT, no exit
30 yards- ribs, ran 75 yards down the mountain in a laurel thicket, hard to find, no exit
10 yards, front of the neck, DRT, no exit
And just to be super clear, the laurel thickets here are very dense. You have to be right on a deer to see it, and it's very steep.
And again, not disputing y'alls' results, just stating from my own experience, I like an exit wound.
But everybody has an opinion, that's fine. Mine is I like an exit wound. I started using game kings HPBT this year and 4 deer later, no exit wounds, the bullets are fragmenting in the extreme. I am probably loading these bullets up too hot.
All deer were recovered, none got up after laying down. Vitals were toast.
Bullet placement was as good as could be hoped for-
120 yards- shoulder shot- struggled down hill for 50 yards, weak blood trail, no exit
100 yards- shoulder shot- DRT, no exit
30 yards- ribs, ran 75 yards down the mountain in a laurel thicket, hard to find, no exit
10 yards, front of the neck, DRT, no exit
And just to be super clear, the laurel thickets here are very dense. You have to be right on a deer to see it, and it's very steep.
And again, not disputing y'alls' results, just stating from my own experience, I like an exit wound.
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Beagleye- I've never used your bullet on game but have shot it in a number of .30 caliber rifles, .308, 30-06, .300 H&H Mag., and .300 Winchester Magnum. It's a very accurate using the right powder and seating depth. In the .30-06 I got better accuracy using H4895 instead of H4350, my preferred .30-06 powder with most bullet weights.
According to the Sierra manual, this bullet has a heavier jacket than the 165 SP version and should hold up (stay together) better than the SP bullet, but we all know the many variables that come into play.
According to the Sierra manual, this bullet has a heavier jacket than the 165 SP version and should hold up (stay together) better than the SP bullet, but we all know the many variables that come into play.
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Beagleye- correction on my last post... I did use H4350 with the 165 Sierra BTHP; one of the 4350s is probably the best powder for 165s and 180s in the .30-06.
Got confused because I've been doing a lot of load development lately and found H4895 provided superior accuracy in comparison to H4350 with the Barnes 150 TTSX BT in the .30-06. If you want an accurate bullet that almost always leaves an exit wound, this is a good one but they are considerably more expensive than Sierras.
Got confused because I've been doing a lot of load development lately and found H4895 provided superior accuracy in comparison to H4350 with the Barnes 150 TTSX BT in the .30-06. If you want an accurate bullet that almost always leaves an exit wound, this is a good one but they are considerably more expensive than Sierras.
Every animal I shot with .30 Sierra SPTs had an ample exit wounds except for one, and that deer was shot from end to end, the bullet ending up at the base of the ear. That covers deer, moose, and caribou at ranges from 50-350 yards.
For those that don't reload and want penetration/exit holes..
There is the Federal 180 Deep Curl or a Speer Mag-Tip or Trophy Bonded Bear Claw...
but they do come at a high price.
Speer puts them on the shelf, if you can find them.
BC starts at .352.
There is the Federal 180 Deep Curl or a Speer Mag-Tip or Trophy Bonded Bear Claw...
but they do come at a high price.
Speer puts them on the shelf, if you can find them.
BC starts at .352.
Hillbilly77
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I would recommend trying Nosler ballistic tip bullets.
I also shoot 165 gr. bullets. The Nosler part number is 30165.
I've been using them for a few seasons in my .30-06 with great results. They are hard-hitting and very accurate.
Attached are some photos (the blood trail & exit wound) of one of the first deer I took when I switched to Noslers. I've taken several deer with them. There is always a good blood trail and the deer seldom runs very far.
I forget off the top of my head the load I use but it's H414 powder in the middle of the charge scale per my Hornady manual.
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nachogrande
Member
NO BLOOD TRAILS WITH PARTITIONS!
The last dozen or so whitetails I shot were ALL under 50 yards from a rest, ANY REST, be it a knee or leaning against a tree WHATEVER, freehand is almost a no shoot even at those ranges (for me). ALL were shot between the bottom of the spine & above the shoulder (don't want to hit the backstraps). To a deer they all reacted more identically than I believed possible. They rise up on tippy toes & fall over on the side opposite the bullet strike & DON'T MOVE! Thus leaving NO BLOOD TRAIL. ALL bullets passed thru, none were recovered.
The last dozen or so whitetails I shot were ALL under 50 yards from a rest, ANY REST, be it a knee or leaning against a tree WHATEVER, freehand is almost a no shoot even at those ranges (for me). ALL were shot between the bottom of the spine & above the shoulder (don't want to hit the backstraps). To a deer they all reacted more identically than I believed possible. They rise up on tippy toes & fall over on the side opposite the bullet strike & DON'T MOVE! Thus leaving NO BLOOD TRAIL. ALL bullets passed thru, none were recovered.
MichiganScott
Member
I used to use the Sierra 165gr. SPBT, but found that it damaged too much meat. They obviously fragged because I would get multiple exit holes.
Switched to Nosler Ballistic Tips and found that they were also a bit fragile, but they seemed to hold together better. For the past ten or so years every animal shot has been with Nosler Accubonds. The meat loss seems minimal and the animals didn't really seem to go any farther with lung shots.
For he past three years I've been forced to change my hunting practices due to health. The last couple of deer taken have been with high shoulder shots since I can no longer do any tracking. You lose a bit of backstrap, but the deer are dead before they hit the ground.
Switched to Nosler Ballistic Tips and found that they were also a bit fragile, but they seemed to hold together better. For the past ten or so years every animal shot has been with Nosler Accubonds. The meat loss seems minimal and the animals didn't really seem to go any farther with lung shots.
For he past three years I've been forced to change my hunting practices due to health. The last couple of deer taken have been with high shoulder shots since I can no longer do any tracking. You lose a bit of backstrap, but the deer are dead before they hit the ground.
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