not a happy camper.

[JaPes]

smokindog,

As I see it, there were several points where the ball was dropped.

1. S&W put the wrong label on the firearm. It passed final packaging inspection. FAIL.

2. The personnel at the gun store who received the shipment didn't pay attention. FAIL.

3. The OP didn't fully inspect the firearm prior to completing the sale and accepting the firearm.

At each of these points, the mistake could have been caught. While the OP isn't the original cause of the problem, the OP could have prevented his own problem with some firearms purchasing common sense.

 

[smokindog]

I think that is what I was trying to explain. Caveat Emptor

smokindog,

As I see it, there were several points where the ball was dropped.

1. S&W put the wrong label on the firearm. It passed final packaging inspection. FAIL.
MAYBE, that's why I asked about the box and weapon model/serial number markings

2. The personnel at the gun store who received the shipment didn't pay attention. FAIL.

3. The OP didn't fully inspect the firearm prior to completing the sale and accepting the firearm.
CAVEAT EMPTOR

At each of these points, the mistake could have been caught. While the OP isn't the original cause of the problem, the OP could have prevented his own problem with some firearms purchasing common sense.

 

[alwaysoutdoors]

Op your wrong, it is what you bought. Most shops have signs saying all sales are final. Its up to you to inspect the gun and make sure it's the correct model before paying for it. If this was a gift from someone else then the lgs might work with you but I wouldn't count on it, once its sold its used. I wouldn't expect S&W to do to much about it, its just a labeling error. All the correct and current specs are posted on their website and match your rifle. Rather than being stoked about a bad *** new rifle your busy worrying about bs twist rate, nice.

Kinda what I was thinking

 

[alwaysoutdoors]

Probably some amigos in charge of putting correct tags on the rifle.......

 

[red dragon]

Op-I apologize if my comment came across mean spirted. I tend to be blunt.  Hopefully you get it worked out. Happy holidays everyone!

 

[ClayCow]

I can see all sales final being good but it's also kind of ridiculous to think that he needs to check out every little thing. Much like buying a car, do you check the 1000 things it says it comes with? At some point there is some burden on the seller. Hopefully we hear on what s&w says on monday

 

[JaPes]

Probably some amigos in charge of putting correct tags on the rifle.......

And what exactly do you mean by that?

 

[MichiganScott]

Anybody notice that the OP has not responded? Anybody notice that this thread contains his one and only post?

I'm just about ready to declare another first post troll. They seem to come out of the woodwork whenever school is in recess.

I still want to know how he came into possession of this supposedly misrepresented rifle.

 

[JaPes]

We may never know.

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

Hopefully we hear on what s&w says on monday

There is a good chance they are closed until after Jan. 1 due to the Christmas holiday.

 

[ClayCow]

I would think they like most other businesses would at least be open the 29 and 30th

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Anybody notice that the OP has not responded? Anybody notice that this thread contains his one and only post?

I'm just about ready to declare another first post troll. They seem to come out of the woodwork whenever school is in recess.

Could be you're right, but threads are often useful to others. There's likely some folks reading this who will benefit by more closely inspecting the next gun they buy.

My hunch is that the OP is sincere and would have been well served if he had read a thread like this before he bought the gun.

-------

In any event, if y'all see a thread/post that you believe violates Forum rules or intent, click the Report button rather than creating a public post. The Mods will take it from there. Thanks.

 

[Rastoff]

Also, with respect to exchanging shoes or contents of soup cans, as much as it sucks, if a store has a policy posted such as no returns, then it's the buyer's problem.

While I believe in the concept of "buyer beware" I don't think it applies in this case. The soup can is the most obvious example. If the can says chicken on it and it has beef inside, the seller cannot then claim that they had a sign saying no returns and you're just out of luck.

In the US we have a Federal Trade Commission. We also have "Truth In Advertising" laws. So, if you advertise a rifle, you can't then put a fish in a sealed box and tell the customer to eat it when they open the box at home. Any time something is misrepresented, you have the right to return it or claim some other compensation.

This is true even if the vendor/store states that they don't accept returns. The key here is misrepresentation. The packaging says 1:8 twist rifle. If the gun does not than have 1:8 twist, it was misrepresented and the buyer has the right to have it fixed, exchanged or refunded. In this case it even goes a little deeper because it fundamentally changes the way the product works.

What if it said Troy Folding Sights on the package but had BCM folding sights instead? The dealer could claim that they perform the same function and you'll have to live with it. However, with twist rate, no matter what people say about how it's OK, it does affect how the bullet flies. So, it is a fundamental difference and again is falsely advertised. This gives the consumer certain rights.

 

[smokindog]

The difference being the buyer had the opportunity and the responsibility to inspect the contents. The actual product was properly labeled. To relate it to the soup example, it's not the can that is mis-labeled, it's the sign on the display.

We'll have to agree to disagree here...

While I believe in the concept of "buyer beware" I don't think it applies in this case. The soup can is the most obvious example. If the can says chicken on it and it has beef inside, the seller cannot then claim that they had a sign saying no returns and you're just out of luck.

In the US we have a Federal Trade Commission. We also have "Truth In Advertising" laws. So, if you advertise a rifle, you can't then put a fish in a sealed box and tell the customer to eat it when they open the box at home. Any time something is misrepresented, you have the right to return it or claim some other compensation.

This is true even if the vendor/store states that they don't accept returns. The key here is misrepresentation. The packaging says 1:8 twist rifle. If the gun does not than have 1:8 twist, it was misrepresented and the buyer has the right to have it fixed, exchanged or refunded. In this case it even goes a little deeper because it fundamentally changes the way the product works.

What if it said Troy Folding Sights on the package but had BCM folding sights instead? The dealer could claim that they perform the same function and you'll have to live with it. However, with twist rate, no matter what people say about how it's OK, it does affect how the bullet flies. So, it is a fundamental difference and again is falsely advertised. This gives the consumer certain rights.

 

[otisrush]

It seems to me the MAJOR item in the OP's favor is the S&W supplied sticker on the firearm.

It seems to me that most LGS's "all sales are final" policies (I would hope) are there simply as an out/escape clause for them. "I'd like to return this (dirty) firearm even though I bought it new and 'haven't fired it.'" gives the LGS an out if things look fishy. That doesn't mean they have to choose to abide by the policy for every single sale. If one does choose to abide by this policy in this situation I'd likely add them to my "Never Do Business With Again" list.

I think it's more than reasonable for a buyer to assume that a factory-supplied piece of documentation on the item itself accurately represents the item. If the window sticker on a new car says the car has halogen headlights I shouldn't have to inspect it beyond that to determine if that's true. And even if someone says I won't be able to tell the difference between regular and halogen headlights - it doesn't matter. The fact is I want halogen and that's what I wanted to buy. Whether others think that's a reasonable desire is completely irrelevant.

I've heard great things about S&W customer service. I certainly hope they'd take care of it.

OR

 

[Rastoff]

The difference being the buyer had the opportunity and the responsibility to inspect the contents. The actual product was properly labeled. To relate it to the soup example, it's not the can that is mis-labeled, it's the sign on the display.

We'll have to agree to disagree here...

Yes, in the case of the soup, the contents cannot be examined. However, to what level should the buyer accomplish this inspection?

Like I said previously, most rifles don't have the twist rate stamped on the barrel. So, in my opinion, it's not reasonable to expect that a person, new to the AR style gun, would even know to look at the barrel.

How 'bout this scenario:
You go to buy a 16" barreled AR. When you get home you pull out the tape measure and find it's an 18" barrel. Is that cause to return it?

 

[brojudge]

Update,waiting for S&W to open back up jan 2, 2015 closed for holiday. Thank you all for the feed back...a couple things ,this is my 1st forum and 1st gun so i'm not with the program yet sorry!

 

[g-dad]

Yes, in the case of the soup, the contents cannot be examined. However, to what level should the buyer accomplish this inspection?

Like I said previously, most rifles don't have the twist rate stamped on the barrel. So, in my opinion, it's not reasonable to expect that a person, new to the AR style gun, would even know to look at the barrel.

I see the op is still mia. Rastoff, I agree with most of what you are saying, however the op said he bought a 1/8 barrel not a 1/9. Again whether it was a gift or he bought it I'm still not clear on. However based on what he stated knew the difference which tells me he's not new to AR's. I could be wrong. And I also think there is something bogus with this post to begin with. "whats the word on the street?". What does that mean?

 

[smokindog]

PRESUMING I can inspect the product, .....

Depends if the barrel was stamped 18"! Also depends if the standard product had been modified to 18" as the standard spec.

We can make up all kinds of hypotheticals but I'd prefer to stay with the facts as presented for this discussion.

How 'bout this scenario:
You go to buy a 16" barreled AR. When you get home you pull out the tape measure and find it's an 18" barrel. Is that cause to return it?

 

[Rastoff]

I see the op is still mia.

No, in fact he posted a reply just 17 minutes before you did. He said it's his first gun. So, he may have researched it, but that doesn't mean he knew the barrel was stamped until he got it home.

We can make up all kinds of hypotheticals but I'd prefer to stay with the facts as presented for this discussion.

Yes, your right. I want to stay with the presented facts as well. The labeling on the gun was 1:8 twist which is what he wanted. It was labeled wrong and he didn't notice until he got it home. I think a refund or exchange is in order. If I owned a shop and a customer came to me with this exact issue, I'd either replace it, send it to S&W for repair or refund his money. I don't see it as unreasonable.

If he came in and simply said he didn't like it, tough.

EDIT: If the customer has fired the gun, all bets are off.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Yes, in the case of the soup, the contents cannot be examined. However, to what level should the buyer accomplish this inspection?

Like I said previously, most rifles don't have the twist rate stamped on the barrel. So, in my opinion, it's not reasonable to expect that a person, new to the AR style gun, would even know to look at the barrel.

How 'bout this scenario:
You go to buy a 16" barreled AR. When you get home you pull out the tape measure and find it's an 18" barrel. Is that cause to return it?

I imagine I'd notice that in the LGS . . . Different scenario

 

[schgsd]

OK is there a way to match up S&W serial number to manufacture date and more importantly shipped configuration?

We got no idea where the OP purchased his "gift". Lotta unscrupulous people out there in the world and that 1:8 melonite barrel configuration seems about the most highly sought after thing in the M&P 15 world.

 

[g-dad]

No, in fact he posted a reply just 17 minutes before you did. He said it's his first gun. So, he may have researched it, but that doesn't mean he knew the barrel was stamped until he got it home.

My most humble apologies. I stand corrected. Glad to see he re-engaged here.

 

[Muss Muggins]

OK is there a way to match up S&W serial number to manufacture date and more importantly shipped configuration?

We got no idea where the OP purchased his "gift". Lotta unscrupulous people out there in the world and that 1:8 melonite barrel configuration seems about the most highly sought after thing in the M&P 15 world.

Factory letter from Roy would straighten that out . . .

 

[schgsd]

Or when he talks to S&W and they say what are you talking about, we shipped that thing with a 1:8.......

 

[red dragon]

All of my m&p rifles came dirty (test fired)from the factory. How exactly would you determine if it's been fired,more? Once it goes out the door, its a used gun. The ops level of firearms knowledge has nothing to do with a business transaction. He paid for the current sport 1/9 model, what entitles him to a product that costs more? His lack of barrel stamping knowledge? A sticker? He got what he paid for, plan and simple. It sucks its not exactly what he wanted and hopefully it gets worked out but sometimes lessons are learned the hard way. Maybe this thread will help teach others the importance of carefully inspecting all firearms before walking out the door.

 

[ClayCow]

All of my m&p rifles came dirty (test fired)from the factory. How exactly would you determine if it's been fired,more? Once it goes out the door, its a used gun. The ops level of firearms knowledge has nothing to do with a business transaction. He paid for the current sport 1/9 model, what entitles him to a product that costs more? His lack of barrel stamping knowledge? A sticker? He got what he paid for, plan and simple. It sucks its not exactly what he wanted and hopefully it gets worked out but sometimes lessons are learned the hard way. Maybe this thread will help teach others the importance of carefully inspecting all firearms before walking out the door.

He was supposed to get what he thought he paid for. In fact the box even mislead him into believing he'd be getting something else.

Am I to believe that you would walk it off after getting 15 inch wheels after you thought you had gotten 16 inch wheels on the purchase of a new car? But maybe you didn't bring a ruler to inspect your purchase?

He did pay for what he got, as the alternate would be stealing. He however did not get what he thought he paid for and it was actually his barrel stamping knowledge which lead him to understand that he did not indeed get what he thought he paid for. How much burden are we putting on the buyer? The burden is on the factory to provide what they say their selling, to not do so intentionally is fraud, to do so unintentionally is poor QC. But mistakes are made and people should inspect their items, I just don't think it's feasible to break down every little thing and check every little thing like you are suggesting.

 

[schgsd]

@ Red Dragon, go to OP's post #1 view attached pic number 3

 

[red dragon]

The ops first post has three separate pics of general information. I don't see a pic of a mislabeled box or rifle barrel. That pic could be from a rifle 2 years ago, proves nothing. If he's new to firearms then how does he know or care about the 1/8 5r barrel? Research, but then he'd know it comes with a 1/9. Checking the twist rate on a rifle he's buying just because of the twist rate seems to much to ask of the buyer?

 

[ClayCow]

The pics may not state it but he wrote that it was, it seems like you think he is intentionally trying to deceive us. It could be true, but I was taking his story at face value.

Maybe he wasn't buying it solely based on twist rate, it was just a nice to have perk. Just because I was told and read that my Toyota Tacoma comes with 16" tires only to find that I got 15" would have me running back to the dealership. Also, he probably did research, but you know it's not like he knew to look for mislabeling. Also sometimes Internet will say something and box will say another, sometimes the box is correct. You seem to act like he knew this was coming and should've done everything to prevent what he didn't know was coming. Kind of a difficult task. Prepare for the punch that may or may not come in the next 5 min or 10 years.

I do see your point though. It would be prudent to make sure you have most everything before walking out the door, but the seller is manufacturer on the other hand have an obligation to advertise and label accurately. I would say that after he gets a replacement barrel from s&w if the box was mislabeled, that he use this as a headache and lesson learned. I wouldn't tell him to walk away from this though empty handed