not a happy camper.

[ClayCow]

I agree that the op deserves to get what he thought he bought as was advertised. He has a right to that. Just nothing to get extremely upset about on Christmas! There are far more things worse which couldve happened. Just trying to put it in perspective.

Hopefully he gets things worked out.

 

[shawn mccarver]

From the posts I have read, they no longer have the 1:8 twist barrels on the Sport, and they have not have for quite some time.

It seems, as catalogs so often say, that the "specifications changed without notice."

Since they were "subject to change without notice," I would be surprised if S&W did anything for you, but who knows.

When the military changed to the 62 grain bullets, the twist changed to 1:7, and then someone figured out that 1:9 was remarkably better. Exactly what use there is for a 1:8 is beyond me, but if the OP just had to have 1:8, I imagine that is impossible, as I would be surprised if S&W had any of the old barrels left.

I will be very anxious to hear the response of S&W, the OP's reaction to that response, and exactly what, if anything gets done.

Please follow up and let us know.

Thank you.

And, welcome to the Forum!

 

[shawn mccarver]

I've been shooting for better than 40 years, and I don't understand twist. But as we say 'round here, there's a lid for every pot . . .

Twist rate is the number of inches it takes for the rifling to make one complete turn. Thus, 1:9 is 1 turn in 9 inches of barrel. And, 1:7 is 1 turn in 7 inches of barrel.

Different bullet weights stabilize best at different rates.

The twist rate was not given much thought in the AR rifles until the US Military adopted the fantastic new 62 grain bullet to replace the terrible old 55 grain bullet in the 5.56 ammo. The rate changed to 1:7, a faster twist, which stabilizes the 62 grain bullet better.

I hope that helps.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Twist rate is the number of inches it takes for the rifling to make one complete turn. Thus, 1:9 is 1 turn in 9 inches of barrel. And, 1:7 is 1 turn in 7 inches of barrel.

Different bullet weights stabilize best at different rates.

The twist rate was not given much thought in the AR rifles until the US Military adopted the fantastic new 162 grain bullet to replace the terrible old 155 grain bullet in the 5.56 ammo. The rate changed to 1:7, a faster twist, which stabilizes the 162 grain bullet better.

I hope that helps.

I guess I should have been clearer. Not only do I not understand twist rate, it's never come up in my hunting or general shooting activities. I hit what I shoot at . . .

 

[Rastoff]

When the military changed to the 162 grain bullets, the twist changed to 1:7, and then someone figured out that 1:9 was remarkably better. Exactly what use there is for a 1:8 is beyond me,...

Well, the military hasn't gone back to .308 yet even though I think they should. Maybe you meant 62gr bullets? Even at that, they still use 55gr bullets at least that's what I've seen at the air base.

Twist rate is very important. The original M16 had a very slow twist rate of 1:12 or 1:14; I don't remember which. Then people began to realize that a faster twist rate helped stabilize the bullet better.

1:9 seems to be optimum for the 55gr bullets, but works fine with 62gr. 1:7 seems to be better for the heavier bullets like the 75gr stuff. Spin the light bullets too fast and they start to tumble in flight. Spin the heavier ones too slow and they start to tumble. It's really a game of matching bullet weight, twist rate and length of barrel.

The 1:8 seemed to get the best compromise. Thus it works OK with 55-75gr bullets with 55gr and 62gr being best.

Meh, in the end you'll just have to test with your own gun to see what you like. Me, I don't care as long as I can shoot a 2" group at 100 yards.

 

[Arik]

Op your wrong, it is what you bought. Most shops have signs saying all sales are final. Its up to you to inspect the gun and make sure it's the correct model before paying for it. If this was a gift from someone else then the lgs might work with you but I wouldn't count on it, once its sold its used. I wouldn't expect S&W to do to much about it, its just a labeling error. All the correct and current specs are posted on their website and match your rifle. Rather than being stoked about a bad *** new rifle your busy worrying about bs twist rate, nice.

I've never heard of a deal that won't take back a firearm that was sold with a misrepresentation. If they don't take it back they'll at least get in contact with the manufacturer to send in the old and receive a new one. In fact w lgs will even do it with a used gun within 30 days. They'll send it out on your behalf and make sure it gets fixed.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I've never heard of a deal that won't take back a firearm that was sold with a misrepresentation. If they don't take it back they'll at least get in contact with the manufacturer to send in the old and receive a new one. In fact w lgs will even do it with a used gun within 30 days. They'll send it out on your behalf and make sure it gets fixed.

From reading the previous posts, it appears that the problem with your solution is that what the OP ordered may not be available. What's the proper resolution for that? I don't have a clue.

 

[cyphertext]

as I would be surprised if S&W had any of the old barrels left.

The 1:8 twist, 5R rifled barrel is still standard on the 15T.

 

[smokindog]

I get all the "I want what I bought" and it always stinks to get things home and not have what you thought you purchased.

With respect to the specifications, there are disclaimers all over the place about reserving the right to change specs at any time, blah, blah, blah... Again, that doesn't take the sting out of things but it could make some local consumer law "kick in" should you have to get to that point (depends on your State and all the other circumstances).

I tried to keep up with this thread but I may have missed something. DISCLAIMER - I'm relatively new (3 years) to all this and have only bought from big box stores and my nephew who owns a shop out of state BUT got the same questions from the receiving FFL.

Every firearm I've bought has the model/serial number on the box as well as the firearm and the seller validated the box info with the weapon as the NICs paperwork was completed and asked me to do the same. Was this done? Just checking to see if maybe something got switched.

I know grasping at straws and I'm NOT trying to minimize things.

Also, with respect to exchanging shoes or contents of soup cans, as much as it sucks, if a store has a policy posted such as no returns, then it's the buyer's problem. Most States do have consumer laws limiting/requiring things like store credit for return, ... but you'll have to check your State and all the seller's posted policies. I once had to pay a 20% restocking fee for an expensive auto part because I didn't pay attention.

In this case, I believe the sales receipt is your contract and if the model/serial number match on the receipt and the weapon, that's what you agreed to buy. Again, I feel the pain (see next paragraph).

Having just survived a damaged weapon purchase because I failed to completely inspect things during the purchase, I get it. I hastily bought a mini 14 and got home to a cracked hand guard, a "dinged" receiver, and a couple smaller items. In my case I got most everything perfect by calling the manufacturer. I'm probably going to just live with some cosmetic damage I missed.

So back to you. What was the seller's response? Did I miss it in this thread?

I'm also curious as to what S&W's response to the OP was or will be. My advice is happy, positive, and polite for the call. I can't believe S&W won't help resolve this to the satisfaction of all parties. Just remember, most are protected by wrong specifications on print material, especially when the caliber and twist are stamped on the barrel. Like buying a car, there should be an over abundance of diligence performed when purchasing a firearm (IMO).

Sorry and hope it turns out to your satisfaction. When I get a customer screaming at me telling me they have rights, I try to find out just how limiting their rights are and treat them accordingly. When someone explains their mistake or our common misunderstanding, I try to resolve the problem with them!!!!

YIKES this turned out to be a long post!

 

[JaPes]

I've never heard of a deal that won't take back a firearm that was sold with a misrepresentation. If they don't take it back they'll at least get in contact with the manufacturer to send in the old and receive a new one. In fact w lgs will even do it with a used gun within 30 days. They'll send it out on your behalf and make sure it gets fixed.

Not every LGS is the same. The bigger privately owned LGS in the area is all sales final, new or used. I have one last shot to inspect the firearm before I certify the 4473 just before accepting the firearm. Used guns are as-is.

Some gun stores are more accommodating than others.

 

[JaPes]

smokindog,

As I see it, there were several points where the ball was dropped.

1. S&W put the wrong label on the firearm. It passed final packaging inspection. FAIL.

2. The personnel at the gun store who received the shipment didn't pay attention. FAIL.

3. The OP didn't fully inspect the firearm prior to completing the sale and accepting the firearm.

At each of these points, the mistake could have been caught. While the OP isn't the original cause of the problem, the OP could have prevented his own problem with some firearms purchasing common sense.

 

[smokindog]

I think that is what I was trying to explain. Caveat Emptor

smokindog,

As I see it, there were several points where the ball was dropped.

1. S&W put the wrong label on the firearm. It passed final packaging inspection. FAIL.
MAYBE, that's why I asked about the box and weapon model/serial number markings

2. The personnel at the gun store who received the shipment didn't pay attention. FAIL.

3. The OP didn't fully inspect the firearm prior to completing the sale and accepting the firearm.
CAVEAT EMPTOR

At each of these points, the mistake could have been caught. While the OP isn't the original cause of the problem, the OP could have prevented his own problem with some firearms purchasing common sense.

 

[alwaysoutdoors]

Op your wrong, it is what you bought. Most shops have signs saying all sales are final. Its up to you to inspect the gun and make sure it's the correct model before paying for it. If this was a gift from someone else then the lgs might work with you but I wouldn't count on it, once its sold its used. I wouldn't expect S&W to do to much about it, its just a labeling error. All the correct and current specs are posted on their website and match your rifle. Rather than being stoked about a bad *** new rifle your busy worrying about bs twist rate, nice.

Kinda what I was thinking

 

[alwaysoutdoors]

Probably some amigos in charge of putting correct tags on the rifle.......

 

[red dragon]

Op-I apologize if my comment came across mean spirted. I tend to be blunt.  Hopefully you get it worked out. Happy holidays everyone!

 

[ClayCow]

I can see all sales final being good but it's also kind of ridiculous to think that he needs to check out every little thing. Much like buying a car, do you check the 1000 things it says it comes with? At some point there is some burden on the seller. Hopefully we hear on what s&w says on monday

 

[JaPes]

Probably some amigos in charge of putting correct tags on the rifle.......

And what exactly do you mean by that?

 

[MichiganScott]

Anybody notice that the OP has not responded? Anybody notice that this thread contains his one and only post?

I'm just about ready to declare another first post troll. They seem to come out of the woodwork whenever school is in recess.

I still want to know how he came into possession of this supposedly misrepresented rifle.

 

[JaPes]

We may never know.

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

Hopefully we hear on what s&w says on monday

There is a good chance they are closed until after Jan. 1 due to the Christmas holiday.