Not Hypothetical

[oink]

Shooting in Jensen Beach FL.
Teens do a theft at Jewelry store. Store clerk tries to stop teen with jewelry and struggles with thief turning it into a technical robbery. Teens get away and flee in car. 2nd Clerk shoots the vehicle striking the passenger, the main thief and then vehicle crashes. Driver flees on foot but is later captured. Shot teen is in grave condition in hospital. Sheriff states that if the teen dies the other teen will be charged with murder (FL felony murder law) but no mention of charges against the clerk: WPBF Teen in grave condition after being shot during robbery
Youtube [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2u5k7kHVUQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2u5k7kHVUQ[/ame]

Update link to TCPalm with actual shooting video: Unclear if jewelry store employee will be charged for shooting teen

 

[Wise_A]

Yeah, that was dumb as hell. In some jurisdictions, it might be legal, or at least, you won't get charged. But it's dumb all over.

I seem to recall a dude who decided to shoot at a burglar as he drove off. Bullet bounced off the car's glass and killed one of his neighbors.

Protip: "could" and "should" ain't the same thing.

 

[tenntex32]

Maybe instead of calling the clerk out we should be calling the thieves/robbers out. They are the catalyst in the story and without them there would be no story to begin with.

Do stupid stuff.....get stupid results. I get so sick of people placing blame elsewhere instead of right squarely where it belongs, and if his state feels the clerk was within his rights and won't be charged then it must agree as well.

Otherwise just open the front door and place a sign out front that says "Take what you want".

Just my take on it.
Dale

 

[Wise_A]

It's not about blame or sending messages. There's a reason why I said he was dumb, and not that he should be in jail.

Firing at a fleeing vehicle when there's no imminent threat only serves to put the public in danger unnecessarily. There's a reason why most police departments prohibit or at least discourage the practice.

 

[steelslaver]

In this case so far its a "Nice shot"

 

[EMP3]

Press is hearsay & inherently unreliable. The wise route is to wait until cops conclude their investigation. That's when we'll know facts.

I agree with not shooting at moving vehicles. A dead driver of a speeding vehicle leaves it as a de facto unguided missile.

My former's agency's rules & regs denied cops ability to shoot at escaping vehicles. In extreme cases (known murderer) watch commander could make the call. I've never heard a watch commander make that call.

 

[NYlakesider]

Enough time has gone by that at least 3 "I will sue them for you" attorneys have contacted the family of the shot crook. Hope I'm wrong but doubt it.

 

[EMP3]

Enough time has gone by that at least 3 "I will sue them for you" attorneys have contacted the family of the shot crook. Hope I'm wrong but doubt it.

There's a reason lawyers are in the bottom third of America's most admired professions.

Ambulance chasers should be disbarred. Avenatti would be a good place to start.

 

[nachogrande]

YOU CAN'T CALL BULLETS BACK.

Regardless of "did society a favor" sentiments, shooting at a fleeing car DOES NOT qualify for your life being in jeopardy IMO. High potential risk over insured items.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Press is hearsay & inherently unreliable. The wise route is to wait until cops conclude their investigation. That's when we'll know facts.

I agree with not shooting at moving vehicles. A dead driver of a speeding vehicle leaves it as a de facto unguided missile.

My former's agency's rules & regs denied cops ability to shoot at escaping vehicles. In extreme cases (known murderer) watch commander could make the call. I've never heard a watch commander make that call.

Oh, would you not love to be the Watch Commander. Bet it goes something like this...

"Lt. Kamikaze , our department after thoughtful consideration decided this was a bad practice; HOWEVER, we are giving you the option of disregarding our decision, BECAUSE, that way we can hold YOU responsible no matter which choice is made."

"Why thank you, Captain Machiavelli."

 

[TomkinsSP]

...Store clerk tries to stop teen with jewelry and struggles with thief turning it into a technical robbery...

Different places, slightly different rules.

In some jurisdictions the commission of what would otherwise be a Burglary IS by law a Robbery if done in the presence of the owner of the property or a person "reasonably likley" to intervene.

(Without requiring actual intervention.)

 

[tenntex32]

It's not about blame or sending messages. There's a reason why I said he was dumb, and not that he should be in jail.

Firing at a fleeing vehicle when there's no imminent threat only serves to put the public in danger unnecessarily. There's a reason why most police departments prohibit or at least discourage the practice.

And there's also numerous reasons why certain neighborhoods go to ****. One of them just possibly could be removing the individual's right to defend self, family, business, or PROPERTY in a manner that might possibly deter such criminal acts from happening in the future.

Every time a law enforcement official has to use their weapon something unintended can or sometimes does happen. Instead of blaming the officers for doing their job maybe we should hold the perps accountable for committing the crime as well as any unintended consequences that may arise during their prevention/apprehension.

Waa waa waa……..someone robbed a place or had a part in a robbery and got shot. Cry me a river. No innocents hurt but we are going to debate what COULD have happened? Really?

I guess we should arm our beat cops with clubs and pepper spray as other countries have, as tasers and guns might have unintended consequences for them here as well. Heck a bystander might actually get some pepper spray in their eyes if downwind...…..so better not give them that either.

Dale

 

[steelslaver]

While in general shooting at a fleeing thief is regarded as illegal, I am not that much of a fan of that thought. They are still in the commission of a crime. Just because one can get prosecuted for doing itt doesn't make it right. You can get prosecuted for a 20 round magazine in New Jersey, doesn't make it right. So, if they had just shot your wife down in cold blood, had turned and were fleeing you would just let them go? OK, fine, I am sure the prosecuting attorney would think highly of you.. But, my line is in a differ part of the sand.

Yes, a bystander, if there were any, could have been hurt. Lots of things could have and didn't. If some one could get hurt LEOs should never ever chase a anyone fleeing in a car. The innocent get hurt in chases all the time, Lots of property damage.

I thought he had his gun pointed at me from the car.

 

[wingriderz]

Thats a no go for a good shoot in florida

 

[Rastoff]

Maybe instead of calling the clerk out we should be calling the thieves/robbers out. They are the catalyst in the story and without them there would be no story to begin with.

Just my take on it.
Dale

Yes, I hear you Dale, but we don't live in a fair world. Yes, the thieves are the instigators and probably deserve what they got, but in the real world, we want to keep ourselves out of prison.

Robbery, in contrast to theft, is a taking of property that does involve person-to-person interaction with force, intimidation, and/or coercion.

Where I live, it's legal to use deadly force to stop a robbery in progress. However, if the suspect is fleeing, let them go. You are no longer in danger and therefore, no longer have the right to use deadly force.

Further, what if the fleeing felon decides to turn and defend themselves instead of continuing to run? Now you're in a gun fight. That's never good.

 

[tenntex32]

Geez in the name of legal liablilty and cowardice the theives/robbers have already won with some folks it seems.

What's next.........letting looters run rampant in times of riot or national emergency?

Dale

 

[SMSgt]

I live a few miles from JB, and the Martin County sheriff is NOT one to file frivolous charges against anyone stopping a crime. He endorses getting a firearm to protect yourself and to use it. His department is very "effective" in comparison to several further south. He is very much "Not in MY house." I think any possible investigation of the clerk ended about as soon as it started.

Down the road? Anyone's guess, but I don't see the MCSO putting much time into it.

 

[SMSgt]

Instead of blaming the officers for doing their job maybe we should hold the perps accountable for committing the crime as well as any unintended consequences that may arise during their prevention/apprehension.

Works for me.

 

[murphydog]

I am not an LEO or lawyer, but in this specific situation (armed robbery, suspects fled, then shot by victim without bystanders or other innocents hurt) I could see how the local authorities would not press charges. However, one can imagine all the ways this could have gone in all sorts of wrong directions for all the non-criminals, but it's perfectly understandable as a "heat of the moment" response. Not really smart though.

 

[tenntex32]

If we are going to "what if" all the possible things that could have gone wrong with this scenario.....but didn't then we must also "what if" the following possible scenario:


"What if" they robbed your place of business and you were legally armed and could have legally done something to possibly apprehend or stop them and you chose not to.

Then "what if" the perpetrators then left your place of business and robbed yet another place of business killing the owner, an employee, and a customer as well as her two small children who just happened to be in the store at the time.

We can literally "what if" this scenario to death, but the fact remains that what could/possibly/might have happened in this example, with regards to "what ifs" did not happen.

Dale