NRA Instructor change for Basic Pistol class

[H Richard]

Just wondering what any of you other Instructors think of the new change being implemented by the NRA for the Basic Pistol Class, (and most probably to all other classes in the future)?

The change (if you haven't heard) is the class will "only" be taught by direct to the NRA "On Line" for all the class except the actual shooting portion, and they will recommend an Instructor in the person's area.

Most of the instructors around here are pretty upset and feel it is a slap in the face of the instructors intimating they don't measure up to NRA standards? My take is it is just another way for the NRA to add to their cash flow at the expense of local volunteer Instructors. We are all wondering who will answer all the questions generated during the "on line" classes. Also, what happens to all those who do not use a computer.

 

[S&W ucla]

As a certified instructor I think this may be my last renewal. I would fill out the card with # of students and mail it in with payment, no problem. Next time all reporting must be online and now classes as well. I went through this with State hunter safety. Now ALL of course is online and we are no longer needed. Probably wind up with online shooting game to qualify with no range time at all. Progress?

 

[hobby-gunsmith]

NRA Instructor change

This is the first I have heard of it. So, I logged in the NRA instructor site and read what the proposal is regarding on line instructing. From my point of view, this may not work as the student needs the one on one for hands on in the classroom and transfering that knowledge to the range for actual shooting. It looks like it will be implemented in 2015. Only time will tell if this program will be authorized for state mandate on training requirements for a concealed firearms permit. The NRA has re-formated the instructor site and this will give me a chance to fully digest the information.

Nick

 

[roundgunner]

I let my students handle over 20 different handguns and fire 10 different calibers. The newbie needs to have hands on. NRA is screwing this up

 

[Rastoff]

I guess i misunderstood the notice. I'll have to read it again. I'd what you say is true, this is a great step backward.

Of course, I've also seen some pretty sketchy teaching from some so called certified instructors.

 

[Rastoff]

I did indeed misunderstand what the email said. Here is the video about it:


I'm not happy with this decision, but I think I understand why they're doing it. There are many instructors out there that are taking wild liberties with the curriculum. I personally know at least two instructors who skip the bench rest shooting position. I know of one instructor who teaches the Basic Pistol course in less than an hour (anyone who knows the course knows that this is impossible). Both of these examples are damaging the reputation of all NRA Certified Instructors.

The biggest problem I have with this is how it will take business away. I currently charge $100 for a basic course either in shotgun or pistol. With this "blended" format, I don't think I'll be able to charge that. Further, I haven't had a single student yet who really cares about the certificate. So, if anyone uses the on-line portion, it's unlikely that they'll continue to the live portion. This is literally taking business away from individual instructors.

I haven't taught a lot of classes and it's not a large source of income. Still, I've spent a lot of money becoming certified and now they're taking it from me. No, I'm not happy about this.

 

[Rastoff]

I do agree with a "re-certification" every so often for instructors.

 

[motown]

NRA Screw UP !!!!!

The NRA has basically slapped instructors in the face on this one,Ive heard some instructors were pushing students through in a matter of a couple hour course ,NOT COOL ! it take me about 6 -7 hours to cover all the bases, depending on the number of students and breaks . The hands on portion from an experience instructor will be gone. Pretty obvious what they did ,they looked at the numbers and figured Hmm, we could stand to make a lot of revenue off this change.I was considering getting more certifications to teach other courses ,there is no way Im going to waste my money.When my certification runs out Im done ! Lets not forget our insurance costs ! I might keep the insurance and find other outlets to teach,
this is not worth my time !! Good luck to all the good instructors and stay safe !

 

[Calaveras Slim]

It's all about control. They want all and you have none.

Sounds more and more like someone else we all know and hate.

 

[motown]

you got that right !!!

For me it was never about the money,I got involved with teaching
so I could pass along my years of experience to help first time gun owners enjoy the sport and stay safe ! as an RSO at my local range I can tell you that there are so many new gun owners out there that have absolutely no clue.I've been a NRA member since 1974 I support the NRA ,but not this change.

 

[Rastoff]

After reading this, and being woken up to what was really happening, I wrote an email to the NRA. In it, I told them that if they wanted to discuss it further with me, call. Well, sure enough today I was called by Richard Sheehan. I will try to keep this short.

• One concern was students only getting half of the training. Richard believes that students will get the on-line portion and actively seek the live instruction because that's the only way to get the certificate.
  
• The other concern was losing revenue due to students only doing the on-line portion. Richard told me that the NRA courses are not there for instructors to make money; they exist to train up good shooters. Instructors will still be allowed to set their own prices and this new "blended" training shouldn't interfere with that.

OK, that is the summary of what he said about what I wrote. He went on to tell me that there are more than 115,000 certified instructors. I had no idea the number was so big. He further stated that many of them are dramatically deviating from the curriculum. This is the main driving factor behind this change.

By 2016, the re-certification process will be different. They've already changed it to a simpler, one price for all, system. Next will be a short test for re-certification to ensure the instructors are keeping their knowledge up.

Further, any instructor who had not trained any students in the two years prior will be dropped. So, there won't be any more instructors who just get the cert and never train anyone. This is a major policy shift. I expect the number of instructors to drop from >115,000 to less than a few thousand.

 

[roundgunner]

After reading this, and being woken up to what was really happening, I wrote an email to the NRA. In it, I told them that if they wanted to discuss it further with me, call. Well, sure enough today I was called by Richard Sheehan. I will try to keep this short.

• One concern was students only getting half of the training. Richard believes that students will get the on-line portion and actively seek the live instruction because that's the only way to get the certificate.
  
• The other concern was losing revenue due to students only doing the on-line portion. Richard told me that the NRA courses are not there for instructors to make money; they exist to train up good shooters. Instructors will still be allowed to set their own prices and this new "blended" training shouldn't interfere with that.

OK, that is the summary of what he said about what I wrote. He went on to tell me that there are more than 115,000 certified instructors. I had no idea the number was so big. He further stated that many of them are dramatically deviating from the curriculum. This is the main driving factor behind this change.

By 2016, the re-certification process will be different. They've already changed it to a simpler, one price for all, system. Next will be a short test for re-certification to ensure the instructors are keeping their knowledge up.

Further, any instructor who had not trained any students in the two years prior will be dropped. So, there won't be any more instructors who just get the cert and never train anyone. This is a major policy shift. I expect the number of instructors to drop from >115,000 to less than a few thousand.

OK but how many of us can take that kind of time without making something. The NRA sure is getting something. I think this may be a bad move.
This is a class of teachers and administrators for one of the local school districts.



Yeah I make money at it but if I don't I will have to go do something else on Saturday until the economy comes back to life.

Check the fingers, I really stress that finger.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I let my students handle over 20 different handguns and fire 10 different calibers. The newbie needs to have hands on. NRA is screwing this up

What's in the syllabus about this?

 

[Muss Muggins]

It's all about control. They want all and you have none.

Sounds more and more like someone else we all know and hate.

It's an NRA class, isn't it? It's not your class . . . Their patch, their lesson plan, their call.

 

[Muss Muggins]

OK but how many of us can take that kind of time without making something. The NRA sure is getting something. I think this may be a bad move.
This is a class of teachers and administrators for one of the local school districts.



Yeah I make money at it but if I don't I will have to go do something else on Saturday until the economy comes back to life.

Check the fingers, I really stress that finger.

Looks like 2nd and 3rd from the left's revolvers are pointed at 4th from the left's foot . . . but it's probably okay, since 4th is pointing back at 3rd's foot . . .

 

[old bear]

Looks like 2nd and 3rd from the left's revolvers are pointed at 4th from the left's foot . . .

That's Ok, she has two feet.

 

[Muss Muggins]

That's Ok, she has two feet.

Tru dat . . .

 

[Rastoff]

OK but how many of us can take that kind of time without making something.

I don't understand what you mean here. Instructors will still be able to charge for the live portion of the class. This assumes anyone signs up for the live portion.

My main beef is the lack of quality instruction from computer based courses. The Air Force has been using computer courses for years. The only benefit is saving class time. The actual retention is much lower than from a live class.

 

[WR Moore]

I can, to a degree, agree with the concept of standardization of the material presented. However, I've had quibbles with some of the NRA material presented over the years. Specifically on stances and some other stuff. This is big organization disease. By the time something gets mentioned up top along with a fix, the fix is recognized as valid, it gets run past the various poobahs for approval and the fix is instituted, other stuff needs revised. My rough estimate is that it takes 5 years to get content changes made in training materials in large organizations.

My issues with CBT are similar to Rastoffs. We use CBT for a lot of stuff at work and retention and comprehension .....aren't what they should be.

What it's probably going to boil down to is that to maintain certs, a certain number of students will have to be pushed through. You can then still teach other material independently of the NRA stuff.

 

[motown]

Just received an e-mail yesterday from the NRA on the myths & facts about e-learning! this new blended training for Basic Pistol. First I will bet money, That when a student that has taken the e-learning portion of the course, and steps up to the firing line, the instructors will be scratching their heads and say are you freaking kidding me ! Just saying !All students are different some get it some need a little extra help with eye contact, HANDS ON ! with a 1-1 classroom setting with an instructor, I find it very hard to believe that this e-learning will totally replace a good instructor that has years of knowledge that he can pass along. the e-learning can be taken by using a smartphone, tablet or desktop computer,And for you folks that don't own a device the NRA says students can go to any public library and take the course ,Yea OK ! Here's whats gonna happen with this e-learning, a student is going to go on-line and take the course and pass ! ,and when it comes time for the live fire range time, the instructor will be teaching parts of the classroom portion of the course on the firing line! that should have been covered in the classroom ! And the NRA says that the instructor has the final say ! All students have different learning abilities, a good instructor can switch gears and tailor his approach for the individual student and get the results he wants. Follow the Money !!