Number 2 Alloy

[Inland7-45]

I am about to start bullet casting again after a long pause. My last run of bullets was made from an alloy of range lead, wheelwrights and type metal. I fellow bullet caster hardness tested some samples and it came close to Lyman # 2 which is what most of my calibers called for.

Since then I have added molds for several additional pistol calibers. I am ready to replace the bullets that I have used up and start casting for the just added calibers.

I still have a few hundred pounds of ingot made from a mix of indoor and outdoor range lead. I continue to have easy access to range lead but the wheel weights and type metal are gone.

When I resume casting I would like to stay as close to the specified bullet material as possible. I want to cast a bullet that will be as accurate as possible while keeping bore leading to a minimum. While at the same time keeping cost down by using as much as possible the free material that I have at hand.

Can anyone offer some advise as to how to alloy this lead to come up with a # 2 alloy? Can I remelt and flux until I have close to pure lead and then add what is needed to the alloy to hit required hardness?

 

[mikld]

Lots of good info on alloying here; Lead and Lead Alloys

Also Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbooks contain alloying info and charts...

 

[DeplorabusUnum]

I cast almost exclusively with range scrap lead. Most of them turn out with a BHN of around 10, but range from 8-13. Those get powder coated, and then shot in 32-20, 9mm, 45 ACP, 38, 357, 44, 44mag. I shoot them up to 1200 f/s with no leading in any gun. Correct sizing is way more important than BHN. Cast 'em, Coat 'em, Shoot 'em.

If I'm making bullets for my Henry rifle that are going to be traveling at 1700 ft/s, I'll throw in some hardening alloy to make the BHN closer to 17-20, but for most things, wheel weights and range scrap are just fine for shooting without adjusting anything.

 

[GypsmJim]

My first experience reloading .38 Spl was with a box of Speer wadcutters. They leaded the barrel terribly. That's when I started casting. That was 1975.

Back then I had free access to pure lead, linotype (monotype) and wheel weights. My Dad was a printer, they rehabbed the building I worked in and removed and disposed of all the lead pipe, and a buddy ran a gas station.

With the Lyman book at hand I very judiciously made up ingots of #2. Used it for many years. About 20 years ago all I had access to was wheel weights, so I changed my formula over to 100% WWs.

Truthfully, with my own cast boolits I have NEVER had any leading whatsoever. Also, I don't see any difference in the accuracy. (of course I am no Elmer Keith either).

The Lyman manual (as well as sites online) show hardness values for most lead and lead alloy sources. If #2 is truly what you think you need, buy a Lee Hardness Tester and adjust your allow to meet the #2 spec.

I DO recycle bullets from my own outdoor range, but I don't pick up other range lead. My WWs are very consistent, but who knows what's in other scrap.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

To answer your question about re-purifying until you get pure lead.

Not going to happen with basement grade equipment! You can sell your ww and scrap and buy pure lead, or run what you've got.

It has become hard to even find 50/50 soldier! Most placed are selling a lead free mix of unknown metals for outlandish prices.

Ivan

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

By the way, They sell various alloys for casting and mixing at Midway USA.

Ivan

 

[Model52guy]

A hardness tester is valuable when mixing alloy. The cheap Lee hardness tester works good enough.

 

[243winxb]

Add linotype bought from Rotometals, add to range scrap. 2" of the bar works for me.

You can skip adding linotype, if bullets are oven heat treated, water cooled.

Make Cast Bullets Harder- Oven Heat Treating. | The High Road

Bullets with 2% antimony will take 2 weeks to fully harden. 6% in 8 hours.

 

[Forrest r]

+/- 99% of my alloy casting needs has been done with free range scrap since the 80's. The range scrap that I use has been pretty consistent, 8/9bhn when air cooled casting and 10/11 bhn when water dropped casted bullets.

Typical batches of range scrap produce 100+#'s of ingots. I tend to get more consistency when doing large batches over the years.

An alloys bhn is 1 of the most misunderstood aspects of casting. The op askes about lyman #2 alloy. Interestingly enough lyman #1 alloy is 10 to 1 lead/tin alloy. Lyman switched to the #2 alloy because of cost. The other thing to keep in mind is that it's easier for lyman to list 1 alloy for everything rather than listing +/- 7bhn alloy for wad cutters, 8/9bhn for 38spl's/45acp's/etc. And 15bhn for rifle bullets.

I'm no expert by any means but I have cast & shot countless 1000's of bullets for several calibers for rifle, pistol & revolvers.

At the end of the day I use 8/9bhn alloy (air cooled) for loads up to 25,000psi.
10/11bhn alloy (water dropped) for loads up to +/- 35,00psi.
14bhn for loads up to 50,000+psi.

If you're using the correct dies to load your cast bullets correctly range scrap will serve you well for the majority of your casting needs.

 

[GBertolet]

I too find that WW alloy, is suitable for all but magnum loadings. Proper fit in cylinder throats for revolvers and .001 over bore diameter in autos, works wonders. Bullets that are too hard, used in standard pressure cartridges, are adapt to lead more. The softer alloys tend to obturate and seal, at the lower pressures, preventing the hot gasses from leaking by, where as the hard alloys need much higher pressures to perform this function.

Loading techniques, are a factor also. Too small of an expander plug, can swage bullets down while seating, inviting leading. Also too hard of a taper crimp can do the same. Most expanders supplied by the die manufactures, are best suited for jacketed bullets, as they are on the small side. RCBS offers cowboy expanders for their dies. They are slightly larger, intended for lead bullet use.

Powder coating does work wonders protecting the lead from hot gasses. You can get away with some really soft alloys without leading.

I buy my casing alloy from these guys. Casting Lead from RMR Jacketed Bullet Cores (approximately 10 Brinnel hardness) | RMR Bullets

 

[mtgianni]

I understand your question and your concerns and feel that Rotometals is your best source. Hardly anyone shoots Lyman #2 today. It is overly hard, wastes tin, IMO, and uses too much antimony. Antimony grains are harder on barrels.

Powder coating has changed bullet hardness requirements to allow the use of a softer alloy at faster than before velocities than with conventional lubes. Previously I shot straight ww at up to 2400 fps with a good lube from the 30-06. I can best that easily with powder coating.

Lyman #2 is an alloy that worked for Lyman in the 60's, 70's and earlier when micro waxes and advanced lubes were not in use. I cannot think of a cartridge I would need it in. If I need a hard alloy, water dropping with a trace of antimony or arsenic takes care of it, even with high pressure handgun cartridges like 9mm and 10 mm.

 

[Inland7-45]

Lyman #2 Alloy

Thank you all for the latest replies.

I plan to purchase a hardness tester soon. I have been using the same Lee ladel pour pot and it has served me well. For consistency it makes sense to melt as much as possible to have the same heat over the highest number of bullets.

A friend had suggested a turkey fryer to melt down the range lead and flux out impurities. At that point there would be a good quantity of ingot that cold be tested for hardness and either used as is or alloyed further.

What is everyone using for the initial melting equipment?

I have been looking at RCBS or Lyman for equipment upgrade.

I cast for the following:

25-20, 38-40, 44-40, .45 ACP/ AR , 45 LC, 44 Mag/Spl , 38-55, 32spl/ 32-40, 38 Spl/38 S&W, 32 S&W L.

I have molds from most of the major players and have a good grasp on how to cast a quality bullet.

I plan to break out the equipment in another month or so and will be putting these suggestions to use.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Always nice when someone asking a question adds a "Thank you!" to the mix...

Exudes "Class", IMHO!

Cheers!

 

[rockquarry]

I am about to start bullet casting again after a long pause. My last run of bullets was made from an alloy of range lead, wheelwrights and type metal. I fellow bullet caster hardness tested some samples and it came close to Lyman # 2 which is what most of my calibers called for.

Since then I have added molds for several additional pistol calibers. I am ready to replace the bullets that I have used up and start casting for the just added calibers.

I still have a few hundred pounds of ingot made from a mix of indoor and outdoor range lead. I continue to have easy access to range lead but the wheel weights and type metal are gone.

When I resume casting I would like to stay as close to the specified bullet material as possible. I want to cast a bullet that will be as accurate as possible while keeping bore leading to a minimum. While at the same time keeping cost down by using as much as possible the free material that I have at hand.

Can anyone offer some advise as to how to alloy this lead to come up with a # 2 alloy? Can I remelt and flux until I have close to pure lead and then add what is needed to the alloy to hit required hardness?

The alloy you have will probably work okay for any use except high velocity rifle loads (above about 2,000 fps). #2 Lyman will work fine for just about anything including many HV rifle loads, but a BHN in the 10-14 range will work as well if your you're willing to do the load development necessary to find the most accurate load that doesn't lead the bore. With handguns this means shooting groups from a good benchrest at 25 yards and doing the same with rifle loads at 50 yards and 100 yards.

My suggestions are necessarily broad as an experienced caster can shoot 12 BHN bullets in magnum handgun cartridges with good accuracy and without leading but bullets need to be the right diameter for the gun and the load needs to be right for the alloy mix.

Years ago, the editor of the "Fouling Shot" (Cast Bullet Association magazine) commented that the softest bullet for the intended velocity that doesn't lead the bore will generally be the most accurate. He was referring to rifles in his report, but I've found it usually applies to handgun loads as well. Good luck-

 

[Inland7-45]

The alloy you have will probably work okay for any use except high velocity rifle loads (above about 2,000 fps). #2 Lyman will work fine for just about anything including many HV rifle loads, but a BHN in the 10-14 range will work as well if your you're willing to do the load development necessary to find the most accurate load that doesn't lead the bore. With handguns this means shooting groups from a good benchrest at 25 yards and doing the same with rifle loads at 50 yards and 100 yards.

My suggestions are necessarily broad as an experienced caster can shoot 12 BHN bullets in magnum handgun cartridges with good accuracy and without leading but bullets need to be the right diameter for the gun and the load needs to be right for the alloy mix.

Years ago, the editor of the "Fouling Shot" (Cast Bullet Association magazine) commented that the softest bullet for the intended velocity that doesn't lead the bore will generally be the the most accurate. He was referring to rifles in his report, but I've found it usually applies to handgun loads as well. Good luck-

Thank You for your reply . This information helps.

I will not be casting bullets for any high velocity rifle round. The same for magnum handgun rounds. I have a 6.5” Model 29, a Superblackhawk and a 6” model 27. I have only fired .38 Spl through the model 27. I use the Lyman 170gr SWC with a full charge of Unique. This is what I use in my 38/44 HD.For the .44s I have used the Lyman 245gr Keith SWC with starting charge of either 2400 or 4227. These are about the fastest moving handgun rounds that will be using cast bullets.

 

[DeplorabusUnum]

Thank You for your reply . This information helps.

I will not be casting bullets for any high velocity rifle round. The same for magnum handgun rounds. I have a 6.5” Model 29, a Superblackhawk and a 6” model 27. I have only fired .38 Spl through the model 27. I use the Lyman 170gr SWC with a full charge of Unique. This is what I use in my 38/44 HD.For the .44s I have used the Lyman 245gr Keith SWC with starting charge of either 2400 or 4227. These are about the fastest moving handgun rounds that will be using cast bullets.

You've gotten a lot of good information from a lot of people willing to share years of experience. I think the common thread is worry less about BHN and more about proper sizing of bullets. All the rounds you listed that you will be shooting, I would shoot with straight wheel weights. They will likely be more accurate than Lyman #2 lead. Size them correctly to each gun, get them lubed or coated properly and they won't lead your barrels. Slug your barrels to determine groove diameter and make sure your bullets are sized .001 larger and you should have accurate loads that don't lead you barrel. Best of luck, and have fun.

 

[Forrest r]

A little off track but as others have stated. Modern lubes are fantastic compared to the older lubes. 14bhn lee 160gr tumble lube bullets sized to .310 to be used in a 308w. One has traditional lube and the other is pc'd.

Same load/brass/rifle/etc.

The pc'd bullets had a higher velocity and still grouped at 2600fps+. The traditionally lubed bullets started falling out at 2500fps. The wasn't enough lube in the small tumble lube grooves. I wasn't getting any leading just had the accuracy fall off. I used the same traditionally lubed bullets and added a coat of 45/45/10 to them. 45/45/10 is 45% lee tumble lube, 45% johnson's floor wax & 10% acetone. It dries fast and isn't sticky like the 100% lee tumble lube.

I re-tested the 36 & 37gr loads with the traditional lube + the 45/45/10

I do get what's known as antimonal wash in the bbl. It's not leading and comes out easily with 4 or 5 passes with a copper brush and hoppe's #9.

 

[max503]

I make boolits out of range lead. They are soft enough to mark with your fingernail. But I powder coat them and they don't lead. Even when shot out of a rifle barrel.

 

[mtgianni]

Thank you all for the latest replies.



A friend had suggested a turkey fryer to melt down the range lead and flux out impurities. At that point there would be a good quantity of ingot that cold be tested for hardness and either used as is or alloyed further.

What is everyone using for the initial melting equipment?

I have been looking at RCBS or Lyman for equipment upgrade.

I cast for the following:

25-20, 38-40, 44-40, .45 ACP/ AR , 45 LC, 44 Mag/Spl , 38-55, 32spl/ 32-40, 38 Spl/38 S&W, 32 S&W L.

.

I use a turkey fryer and a homemade pot for the initial melt. It is a piece of 12" pipe with a cap welded on the bottom. A yard sale dutch oven or an inexpensive import would work just as well.

I think as soft as you can get with out going to pure should work well for the 38 SPL, 28 S&W, 32 Long, 45's and 44 Special. If fit is not a problem it will work for the 44 Mag and the 44-40 and 38-40. I shoot 30-30 and 35 Remington at the same pressures as your rifle cartridges but have no experience with yours. Soft works for those too but there is no reason to alloy softer if your existing alloy shoots well.

 

[loc n load]

Melting lead

OP, in answer to your questions in post 12:
I melt my scrap lead in a cast iron melting pot on top of a 60 plus year old Coleman camp stove.
The majority of my lead is wheel weights from the 70’s, and scrap lead from a salvage yard.
I skim the dross off with an old stainless steel spoon.
Once the slag, steel clips and what not is removed from the cast iron pot I pour that using a clamp on pot handle into a WWII mess kit top that gives me two 5 lb “pigs”.
These two pigs go into my RCBS melting pot.
Mostly I use straight WW lead. If I want softer alloy for hollow points, I mix plumbers lead, window sash weights or whatever softer lead I have on hand.
I have shot thousands of these straight WW leadbullets in my 357’s over 13.5 - 15 grains of 2400, 18-22 grains of 2400 in my 44 mag’s w/o any appreciable leading.
Been using this methodology since 1975.
The “pig” on the left has been used as a “dead blow” hammer for years, that why it is not bright & shiny like the other.