oal with bullet ?

[rebs081]

I wanted to ask you guys that reload 223's what OAL do you seat to ?
I have found a real accurate powder and bullet combo, actually a few bullets that are extremely accurate. Now I want to play with bullet seating depth and see what effect it has on accuracy.
I have all 55 grian bullets, hornady flat base soft points, hornady 55 grain fmjbt's, dogtown 55 grain flat base soft points and some hornady vmax. They are not all the same length so if I load them all to the same OAL some are at the canalure and some are not and vice versa if I load to the canalue they are not all the same OAL.
What are you guys doing about OAL with bullet ?

 

[GMC man]

here are the specs on the military rounds
M193 round
OAL 2.249
Case 1.755
Bullet length 0.743
top to cannalure 0.502
28 grains of powder
bullet wt 55.2

M855
OAL 2.249
Case 1.755
Bullet length 0.910
top to cannalure 0.504
27 grains of powder
Bullet wt 62.3

I swear the powder looks just like CFE223

the discussions on reloading for our girls can be found here
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p15-rifle/249706-re-load-not.html

there is a lot of great info in this thread and its still active, what your looking for is on page 8

 

[oneyeopn]

In my case I am loading anywhere from 2.20 to 2.255. The Dogtowns that I shot last night were loaded to the 2.255 and seemed to be the most accurate of the bunch. I am going to try loading some more to that length regardless of a cannalure or not. I now am loading bullets in groups of 10 so I can test them and am keeping a serious log book instead of just jumping out and loading 50 of a type because I have them to load. Almost all of my reloads work great, better than over the counter at 50 to 100 yards. It is stretching the distances out to 150 to 300 yards that I am trying to improve on. FKimble told me to load to magazine length which is just a little longer than book length and I am getting some good results. I can almost load to 2.26 and am working that direction. It would be great for us all to collaberate just to increase our knowledge.

 

[arizona98tj]

If you are reloading....you need to do it correctly.

A gauge, such as one from Hornady, allows you to properly check OAL without running the risk of jamming your bullet into the rifling, etc. They don't cost much. I wouldn't consider working up a load for a rifle without using it.

Click the graphic to go to a write-up on my web site that explains its use.

 

[rebs081]

If you are reloading....you need to do it correctly.

A gauge, such as one from Hornady, allows you to properly check OAL without running the risk of jamming your bullet into the rifling, etc. They don't cost much. I wouldn't consider working up a load for a rifle without using it.

Click the graphic to go to a write-up on my web site that explains its use.

Thank you
This was an excellent education in OAL.

 

[arizona98tj]

Glad to have been of help.

 

[storeyteller]

Wow! A friend of mine gave me one of those Hornady OAL gauges a couple of days ago, and I had no idea what to do with it. Like I posted in the reloading thread, I barely seat the bullet in a bolt action rifle, chamber the round and let the lands/grooves do the rest then subtract a few thousandths and start from there. Can't get this to work with the AR because the leade is too far out to get the bullet to the lands/grooves. I don't know if it can be done with 75-90gr bullets though, but it's possible. The 50-70gr bullets just aren't long enough to get out there. I have played with different seating depths for them but can't tell a difference. I do look foward to trying out the Hornady gauge now that I have an idea what it actually does. Thanks for the info.

 

[Maddmax]

If you are reloading....you need to do it correctly.

A gauge, such as one from Hornady, allows you to properly check OAL without running the risk of jamming your bullet into the rifling, etc. They don't cost much. I wouldn't consider working up a load for a rifle without using it.

Click the graphic to go to a write-up on my web site that explains its use.

OUTSTANDING write up. Just added a whole new dimension to my reloading archives and and getting more out of reloading semi-auto ammo.

 

[oneyeopn]

I have this question, if you are loading for an AR style rifle and also loading to magazine length then you are going to be short and the bullet will have to make a jump. I do not believe you can load a 55gr out far enough to not and still work in the magazine or am I wrong. I do not have the gauge and I have used empty brass and a non crimped bullet in bolt actions but I do not know how to do it in an AR. any help?

 

[storeyteller]

I dont think you can get the 55's out there even if loading longer than mag length, the bullet just isn't long enough. I load a .243 bolt and I can touch the lands/grooves with a 75gr bullet but can't with a 55gr bullet and still have enough of the bullet base in the neck to hold it in. EVERY experiment to do it with the AR has proven futile. Again, it may be possible with the long, heavy bullets in the AR. Gotta get some and try the OAL gage out to see.

 

[rebs081]

I realize that I cannot reach the lands and grooves, but I can still vary the OAL to a degree while staying within the magazine length. It only takes a few thousands to make a difference in accuracy and I want to find that sweet spot.
Whe loading 55 gr hornady fmjbt's I seat to the canalure and when loading hornady 55 gr soft points loading to the canalure will give you a different OAL. If I load the hornady soft point to the canalure then when I load the hornady fmjbt to the same length the canalure is inside the case.

 

[MP22]

Each gun is different...you need to find the "COL" for your riffle. Use a dummy load to determine this....you don't need to buy a gauge.

 

[oneyeopn]

So could I do the same thing with the Sport, take a long bullet, i.e. a 75gr Amax, barely seat it in a case and hand load it and then seat the bolt. Ease it forward and use the FA on my rifle. Doing this on a bolt action has allowed me to know the COL and it also works on a Lever gun although the lever action my not always cycle a bullet loaded to that length.

 

[Maddmax]

I'm just a bit confused. Are "we" trying to get the bullet to actually barely touch the lands or how much free travel clearance should the jump be before the bullet touches/hits the lands once the case is fired and on the way down the barrel ?

Where's the point of no return and safety jump space limits to the lands ???

 

[rebs081]

I am just trying to see if a few thousands one way or the other will have much effect on accuracy.

 

[oneyeopn]

Rebs, I am loading some 75gr Amax's to 2.255, when the Hornady book calls for them to be loaded to 2.390. This length means you have to hand load them one at a time. So far magazine length is working but I need to play with the powder charge to see if I can get it any better. If that helps.

I was just prepping the brass I shot last night and discovered the Amax's I crimped have split case necks now. so dont do it!!! I dont know if it was the crimp or not but they dang sure split the case mouths sooooo that was a bad idea. LOL...I guess I will use one to find the best COL for my rifle and load them to be shot one at a time...

OK I used a shot brass with a pulled Amax 75gr and came up with 2.635 for length.

 

[storeyteller]

I'm just a bit confused. Are "we" trying to get the bullet to actually barely touch the lands or how much free travel clearance should the jump be before the bullet touches/hits the lands once the case is fired and on the way down the barrel ?

Where's the point of no return and safety jump space limits to the lands ???

My experience with this is with bolt guns, but I'm sure it crosses over, to an extent. Each gun/barrel is different, some like a big jump, some like a couple of thousandths (0.002) off the lands and some anywhere in between. I have a .260rem that wants 95gr vmax's jammed in there. THIS CAN BE DANGEROUS!! I'm using a lower charge than most of the published data. I got the best groups with that charge and then started playing with the seating depth. That gun, with that charge, with that bullet, and at that seating depth will shoot bullet holes in bullet holes all day long if I do my part (Shilen makes a heck of a barrel BTW). The problem with jamming 'em in there is pressures go up so START LOW if that's what you're doing. I am in no way encouraging anyone to do this either. (Did I mention it can be dangerous?) Also, IMO, with the AR, seating the bullet a couple of thousandths off the lands might work...until it got dirty, which they do, and then either 1. wouldn't go into battery or 2. seat the bullet further into the case with the action, jamming it up against the lands which, as we now know, can be dangerous.
I am very interested in trying this myself and also in hearing of ya'lls experience as well.

 

[rebs081]

Rebs, I am loading some 75gr Amax's to 2.255, when the Hornady book calls for them to be loaded to 2.390. This length means you have to hand load them one at a time. So far magazine length is working but I need to play with the powder charge to see if I can get it any better. If that helps.

I was just prepping the brass I shot last night and discovered the Amax's I crimped have split case necks now. so dont do it!!! I dont know if it was the crimp or not but they dang sure split the case mouths sooooo that was a bad idea. LOL...I guess I will use one to find the best COL for my rifle and load them to be shot one at a time...

OK I used a shot brass with a pulled Amax 75gr and came up with 2.635 for length.

Do you think the crimp caused the split in the case mouth's ?

 

[rebs081]

crimp 223's for your AR ?

How many of you guys crimp your 223 hand loads for your AR ?

 

[Maddmax]

My experience with this is with bolt guns, but I'm sure it crosses over, to an extent. Each gun/barrel is different, some like a big jump, some like a couple of thousandths (0.002) off the lands and some anywhere in between. I have a .260rem that wants 95gr vmax's jammed in there. THIS CAN BE DANGEROUS!! I'm using a lower charge than most of the published data. I got the best groups with that charge and then started playing with the seating depth. That gun, with that charge, with that bullet, and at that seating depth will shoot bullet holes in bullet holes all day long if I do my part (Shilen makes a heck of a barrel BTW). The problem with jamming 'em in there is pressures go up so START LOW if that's what you're doing. I am in no way encouraging anyone to do this either. (Did I mention it can be dangerous?) Also, IMO, with the AR, seating the bullet a couple of thousandths off the lands might work...until it got dirty, which they do, and then either 1. wouldn't go into battery or 2. seat the bullet further into the case with the action, jamming it up against the lands which, as we now know, can be dangerous.
I am very interested in trying this myself and also in hearing of ya'lls experience as well.

Gottcha. And thanks. I've never pushed the boundry too hard when reloading and OAL. Seen some nasty things other people have tried though. I do understand how things explode and some of the dynamics. A blast always takes the easiest route when it goes off. So,if the bullet is well enough into the lands before it goes off,it "could" actually act like a squib (being the jump space no longer existed), and being a semi auto would push the bolt back far enough to drag the case out and away from the bullet now seated/jammed in the lands causing the case to become the easiest route and blow the case up causing a catastrophic event in the chamber and bolt assembly all in a split second. In a bolt action,the bolt would be locked and there would be less of a chance of the same kind of event.