OC vs CC

[ChattanoogaPhil]

There is no proof that OC deters crime. I don't want to hear about some convicts in prison saying it.

Actually, the report by professors Wright and Rossi conducted for the Justice Department has been widely referred to for decades. I understand that you don't want to hear it, and obviously you'd prefer to rely on exaggerations and smearing those you disagree with on OC as you did with Watkins. Those kind of tactics have been used by gun carry detractors since forever.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Actually, the report by professors Write and Rossi conducted for the Justice Department has been widely referred to for decades. I understand that you don't want to hear it, and obviously you'd prefer to rely on exaggerations and smearing those you disagree with on OC as you did with Watkins. Those kind of tactics have been used by gun carry detractors since forever.

Does this count as proof?

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/s...-to-carry-guns-openly/open-carry-deters-crime

 

[kbm6893]

Wow... Interesting spiteful comeback to a old joke.
At least MY municiple co-workers could take it as intended. We Always had each other's backs. Looks like y'all don't... but I'm not surprised.

I was only joking. Never locked up a fireman. Never wanted to. Sure had plenty of opportunities. Discretion is a beautiful thing.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Does this count as proof?

Open Carry Deters Crime - US News

It's certainly more evidence.

The article once again refers to the Wright/Rossi report that I was speaking to Kmb about, as well as Gary Kleck's work.
There are also other studies about how criminals avoid potential street victims they believe are more likely to fight back although they typically do not include carry guns but rather the manner in which people carry themselves.

I think there's enough information to conclude that criminals do in fact choose victims and avoid others based on knowing that they are armed and or appearing more likely to fight back.

 

[Philadelphia Patriot]

It's certainly more evidence.

The article once again refers to the Wright/Rossi report that I was speaking to Kmb about, as well as Gary Kleck's work.
There are also other studies about how criminals avoid potential street victims they believe are more likely to fight back although they typically do not include carry guns but rather the manner in which people carry themselves.

I think there's enough information to conclude that criminals do in fact choose victims and avoid others based on knowing that they are armed and or appearing more likely to fight back.

Yup, routine activities theory is one of many that covers this.

 

[Kanewpadle]

It's certainly more evidence.

The article once again refers to the Wright/Rossi report that I was speaking to Kmb about, as well as Gary Kleck's work.
There are also other studies about how criminals avoid potential street victims they believe are more likely to fight back although they typically do not include carry guns but rather the manner in which people carry themselves.

I think there's enough information to conclude that criminals do in fact choose victims and avoid others based on knowing that they are armed and or appearing more likely to fight back.

I just called my brother in law. He is a retired captain with the California DOC (Folsom Prison) and later a parole officer.

He never took any formal polls but he did ask many convicts why they chose the victim they did to attack or rob them. Most of them said that they looked for people that appeared weak or lacked the ability or will to fight back. Many convicts also said that they avoided those that were aware of their surroundings and "looked" like they may be armed.

Many of those statements by convicts were in writing as my BIL was assigned to some investigational/research program a few years before he retired.

 

[lestuder3]

WOW!!!

I really did not expect to see some of these responses from fellow gun owners. I would expect it if I had brought up Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge or football vs baseball vs basketball. lol. I have found many good reasons on both sides and even from those who say no need to choose one or the other, do both. In the end I hope as gun owners and gun advocates we are all on the same team and that it doesn't really matter how you carry as long as you do it responsibly and lawfully. After all, as Abraham Lincoln said "A house divided against itself cannot stand".

 

[CH4]

Take the class from a respected CC school, it'll be money well spent. Then you can make a more informed decision as to when you should CC or OC. Both are viable options depending on the circumstances. I use both: CC 80% and OC 20%.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I think some people forget that where you live can be a big factor. It shouldn't be but it is. I live in a very liberal area where guns are not discussed much in public.

I've seen people absolutely lose their mind because they saw someone OC. I simply don't need that kind of attention. But I will say that even here, I see more people OC than I used too.

Maybe someday this won't even be a debate or discussion.

 

[Rastoff]

I think there's enough information to conclude that criminals do in fact choose victims and avoid others based on knowing that they are armed and or appearing more likely to fight back.

Unfortunately, the statistic I'd like to use is unobtainable. No one reports crimes that didn't happen.

Awareness isn't a weapon and can't protect you by itself. However, it is a valuable tool and is the only thing that enables you to protect yourself. I teach my students that making the potential criminal aware, that you are aware of them, will most likely diffuse an attack.

Criminals are basically lazy cowards. They don't want to actually work for a living so, they see crime as big pay for little work. Because they are lazy, they don't want to fight because that will take effort. So, they seek the inattentive and unaware as prey. They strike fast and hard to eliminate, they think, the potential for retaliation.

Can carrying openly cause criminals to look elsewhere? Maybe. We'll never know because this type of crime prevention is impossible to collect data on. Again, it's the crime that didn't happen. The only way to validate it would be to collect data on those who open carry and were still attacked. I'm sure it's happened, but I'll bet the numbers are tiny.

My largest concern with open carry is theft. Criminals like guns and will attempt to get one if they can. If you open carry, and regularly frequent some places, this could attract a more thoughtful criminal. He could observe your movements and choose a time when he thinks you are vulnerable just to take your gun. Lots of potential in this paragraph, but no substance because attacks on actual open carriers are extremely rare.

So, even if it were legal here, I don't think I'd do it. Concealed works and is more low profile. I prefer to be the grey man.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Unfortunately, the statistic I'd like to use is unobtainable. No one reports crimes that didn't happen.

Awareness isn't a weapon and can't protect you by itself. However, it is a valuable tool and is the only thing that enables you to protect yourself. I teach my students that making the potential criminal aware, that you are aware of them, will most likely diffuse an attack.

Criminals are basically lazy cowards. They don't want to actually work for a living so, they see crime as big pay for little work. Because they are lazy, they don't want to fight because that will take effort. So, they seek the inattentive and unaware as prey. They strike fast and hard to eliminate, they think, the potential for retaliation.

Can carrying openly cause criminals to look elsewhere? Maybe. We'll never know because this type of crime prevention is impossible to collect data on. Again, it's the crime that didn't happen. The only way to validate it would be to collect data on those who open carry and were still attacked. I'm sure it's happened, but I'll bet the numbers are tiny.

My largest concern with open carry is theft. Criminals like guns and will attempt to get one if they can. If you open carry, and regularly frequent some places, this could attract a more thoughtful criminal. He could observe your movements and choose a time when he thinks you are vulnerable just to take your gun. Lots of potential in this paragraph, but no substance because attacks on actual open carriers are extremely rare.

So, even if it were legal here, I don't think I'd do it. Concealed works and is more low profile. I prefer to be the grey man.

The untold and the unforeseen concern me greatly. Whether you OC or CC, you have to be prepared and be able to adapt to any situation.

As far as theft, it could happen I guess. I was in a fast food restaurant weeks ago. A man was eating his hamburger. Carrying OC and was sitting with his gun exposed to the aisle instead sitting with his gun towards the wall. A mother and child walked in to order. The child wandered over and looked at the man's gun. "MOMMY!" He has a gun! The child then proceeded to touch the gun and mom freaked out. Then man quickly changed seats.

 

[Bob R]

I OC, I CC and sometimes I don't carry at all.

Honestly, I don't think many people notice no matter which I am doing. People are conditioned to look from the chest up. I have had people talk to me for several minutes and never notice my OC pistol.

Carry how you want, be happy and carry on.

bob

 

[RobertJ.]

To lestuder3, the OP:

Greetings from the Oregon Coast!

No, I'll bet you weren't expecting this!

Generally, we're a pretty civil bunch. Quite possibly the nicest on the internet. Hang around, there's lots of sound info about any firearm you might want to know about, or any other subject, for that matter. How were you to know that this subject might not be the best to open with? Just be glad you didn't bring up the .380 ACP as a defensive round!


Now, to everyone else:

"I try my best to be just like I am,
But everybody wants you to be just like them"

Bob Dylan
from "Maggie's Farm"

Unless locked, this could eventually rival "Annoyed by Thread Drift"!

 

[lestuder3]

To lestuder3, the OP:

Greetings from the Oregon Coast!

No, I'll bet you weren't expecting this!

Generally, we're a pretty civil bunch. Quite possibly the nicest on the internet. Hang around, there's lots of sound info about any firearm you might want to know about, or any other subject, for that matter. How were you to know that this subject might not be the best to open with? Just be glad you didn't bring up the .380 ACP as a defensive round!


Now, to everyone else:

"I try my best to be just like I am,
But everybody wants you to be just like them"

Bob Dylan
from "Maggie's Farm"

Unless locked, this could eventually rival "Annoyed by Thread Drift"!

Thanks Robert. Don't worry, I'm not going anywhere, I have found many of the comments on this subject very refreshing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am not easily offended, so I intend to be part of the forum for a long time.

 

[keith44spl]

I live in Michigan where open carry is legal. I am considering just going open carry rather than spending a minimum of $205.00 to get a CPL and then another $105.00 in 5 years to renew. One of my thoughts is that in many situations I would rather that others know that I am carrying rather than having my handgun concealed. I live in a small town and I know many of the local law enforcement officers, so I am not concerned about a situation arising with them. Comments and opinions on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Sir,
Seeing how this is one of the most lively threads going,

I would like to offer my services as a custom holster maker and
true believer in Open Carry as well as Concealed Carry, equally.

You sir, are deserving of a brand spanking new fancy tooled holster, design especial for you.

One that you can OC with pride or CC with confidence.

Please contact me via PM for details to claim your free gift from a true believer.

No man should be without a handmade rig.


Su Amigo,
Dave


.

 

[ladder13]

Sir,
Seeing how this is one of the most lively threads going,

I would like to offer my services as a custom holster maker and
true believer in Open Carry as well as Concealed Carry, equally.

You sir, are deserving of a brand spanking new fancy tooled holster, design especial for you.

One that you can OC with pride or CC with confidence.

Please contact me via PM for details to claim your free gift from a true believer.

No man should be without a handmade rig.


Su Amigo,
Dave


.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[hatt]

I'm a 1000x more worried about this sort of thing vs Joe Criminal targeting me cause he sees a my gun.

Tampa Police backpedal on open carry incident

The way to fix this is for many more people to OC.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Unfortunately, the statistic I'd like to use is unobtainable. No one reports crimes that didn't happen.

That's where Wright/Rossi, Kleck and others help fill the void by interviewing both criminals and potential victims to get an understanding beyond crime stats and to how crimes didn't occur or were thwarted. As Kleck reports a great number of successful self defense uses with guns does not include firing the gun, but the mere display of a gun or referring to having a gun.

Some quibble with overall numbers and that, but I see no reason to disbelieve the general message that a criminal knowing or reason to suspect a person is armed is more likely to look elsewhere for his next victim.

 

[Lightfoot4]

Carrying OC and was sitting with his gun exposed to the aisle instead sitting with his gun towards the wall.

That's the way the dude I saw in Applebees recently was carrying. It pretty much stuck out into the aisle. It was so obvious it grabbed your attention.

 

[FTG-05]

I OC, I CC and sometimes I don't carry at all.

Honestly, I don't think many people notice no matter which I am doing. People are conditioned to look from the chest up. I have had people talk to me for several minutes and never notice my OC pistol.

Carry how you want, be happy and carry on.

bob

This is so very true. I once went to look a piece of property a couple years or so ago. I was with this brother and sister for over 15 minutes walking around looking at their property before they noticed I was OCing my S&W 329PD.


And as someone stated above, the solution to most of the so-called problems with OC is for more people to OC. I predict that the issue of OCing a firearm will pretty much go away just as owning an AR-15 has become an non-issue vs 15-20 years ago when all the Fudds were up in arms about it, at least amongst gun owners

Regardless, I plan to continue OCing, makes me warm inside knowing all the OC fudds getting their panties in a wad over it, never mind pissing off all the anti-gunners.