Oddball Triple Lock "half target" on its way

[hkcavalier]

I won an online auction for an intriguing early TL that probably won't move the needle for a purist, but seemed like an inexpensive way to get one. After all monies are exchanged, I should have it in the safe for less than 8 bills.

I made the decision not to ask the auction house too many questions, since they'll often do further research and include that info in the auction itself, which can drive up interest. I've seen with my own aging eyes an auction go from "S&W .357 revolver" to "S&W Registered Magnum" and almost certainly from somebody asking for more info (not me!).

Looks like an early example given the stocks (serial just under 10,000 suggests 1912). Most likely a shaved cylinder .455 to accommodate .45ACP. Barrel markings removed, rear drift sight and sling swivel added, but other than those modifications it seems pretty original. Any thoughts? Anyone else seen another TL with a drift sight added?

From what I've seen here, maybe I need to look into reloading some .45ACP with lead .454 bullets, but I'll wait till it's in hand and I get some trigger time first.

 

[mchom]

Congratulations on a cool TL. I was watching myself and glad it went to someone here on forum.

 

[raljr1]

I gladly would have paid that. Great pickup.

Robert

 

[Masterpiece]

I won an online auction for an intriguing early TL that probably won't move the needle for a purist, but seemed like an inexpensive way to get one. After all monies are exchanged, I should have it in the safe for less than 8 bills.

Barrel markings removed, rear drift sight and sling swivel added, but other than those modifications it seems pretty original. Any thoughts? Anyone else seen another TL with a drift sight added?

hkcavalier,

Very interesting acquisition...Especially given the money you have invested in it...Bravo!!

Now as to what you've noted concerning the Barrel Markings being removed & the Drift-Adj. Rear Sight & Lanyard being added...Until you receive it and post a few detailed photos...Especially of the Rear Sight & possibly a Factory Rework Date on the Frame under the Left Stock Panel...I wouldn't rule out anything other than possibly being re-chambered because there are TL's known to have been shipped in the configuration it's now in!!

I suppose for now that's speculation on my part...Although after you receive it & post some more photos we'll get better read on whether or not what I mentioned is how it left the Factory...Can't wait to see the Photos to see if my suspicions are notable!!

Again...A "Very" interesting Revolver!!

 

[6string]

Nice acquisition. I’d have been tempted too!

I would like to suggest reloading with 45 Auto Rim brass.
1) A true 45 ACP cylinder has a sharp shoulder so that cases headspace off of the case mouth. These conversions don’t have this as the .455 chambers preclude that possibility.
This forces you to use moon clips to secure the brass and provide a mediocre means of achieving headspace. Moon clips don’t provide the consistency or precision needed if you hope to attain your revolver’s true accuracy potential. They’re main asset is to assist loading and unloading.
2) The Auto Rim cases will also give a closer visual suggestion of the original cartridge.

On a recent trip out of the country, I acquired a full box of Canadian CIL Dominion .455 Colt ammo. I couldn’t bring it back as loaded ammo, so I used a bullet puller to break it down to components and discarded the powder.
Anyhow, the attached photos might be of help or interest.
In the last picture you see a 45 ACP case, a 455 Colt case, and a 45 “Long” Colt case. The 455 Colt case is the same length as a 45 ACP or Auto Rim case.
So, my point is, using AutomRim brass gets you as close as you can get to the original. The extra rim thickness makes up for the metal shaved off of your cylinder!

 

[hkcavalier]

Thanks, I'm pretty happy too!

Shame on me for not consulting the SWSC before, but the 4th edition notes on both pps. 185 and 196 that some in the 98xx serial range started life as .455s and were converted to .45 Colt by S&W. Well, guess what...this one is in the 98xx range.

Guess I should write that check to the SWHF pretty soon...

 

[BC38]

I won an online auction for an intriguing early TL that probably won't move the needle for a purist, but seemed like an inexpensive way to get one. After all monies are exchanged, I should have it in the safe for less than 8 bills.

I made the decision not to ask the auction house too many questions, since they'll often do further research and include that info in the auction itself, which can drive up interest. I've seen with my own aging eyes an auction go from "S&W .357 revolver" to "S&W Registered Magnum" and almost certainly from somebody asking for more info (not me!).

Looks like an early example given the stocks (serial just under 10,000 suggests 1912). Most likely a shaved cylinder .455 to accommodate .45ACP. Barrel markings removed, rear drift sight and sling swivel added, but other than those modifications it seems pretty original. Any thoughts? Anyone else seen another TL with a drift sight added?

From what I've seen here, maybe I need to look into reloading some .45ACP with lead .454 bullets, but I'll wait till it's in hand and I get some trigger time first.

Sweet SCORE! Even if it has been modified (which remains to be seen) that is one sweet looking revolver for the price.
Looking forward to more photos.
And BTW, we need to get together and go shooting sometime soon. It's been too long. Since Boggs is closed maybe we can go to Farragut or one of the indoor ranges sometime soon.

 

[hkcavalier]

Sweet SCORE! Even if it has been modified (which remains to be seen) that is one sweet looking revolver for the price.
Looking forward to more photos.
And BTW, we need to get together and go shooting sometime soon. It's been too long. Since Boggs is closed maybe we can go to Farragut or one of the indoor ranges sometime soon.

Definitely! I have stuck to my backyard but am scouting spots out here to sight in rifles.

 

[Muley Gil]

Is the lanyard loop installed through the serial number? If not, it was built with the lanyard loop as standard, like the WW I British Triple Locks and 2nd Model .455s.

 

[Hondo44]

Nice catch! It appears that you have what’s known as the Bisley model. They were made at the factory on special order for the famous English Bisley matches and are found chambered in both 44 Spl and English 455 caliber cartridges. The Bisley match rules limit adjustable sights to windage adjustments only. In the books S&W calls it their military sight as opposed to their fully adjustable target sight.

We’ll know more with better photos. But to my eyes the specific beveling on the right and left ends of the rear sight blade makes yours authentic, and they are rare.

The barrel marking was probably not removed: non 44 Spl chambering was not always marked back in the day.

What cartridge was it advertised to be chambered for?

 

[hkcavalier]

The lanyard is through the S/N. I should post some of the other pics.

The auction house sold it as “probably” a .455 shaved to accept .45ACP on moons. I’ll know more in a few days when I can examine it, but with WA laws I can’t take it home for another 2 calendar weeks after that.

 

[SVT28]

The stocks alone are worth about half what you’re into it. Nice score. I’m a buyer of all triple locks sub $1k.

SVT28

 

[Masterpiece]

The lanyard is through the S/N. I should post some of the other pics.

hkcavalier,

Yes if you have them more photos surely would be nice...Especially so given they may be able clear up a few things that aren't easily seen in the 2 Photos you posted so far!!

As to the Lanyard Ring mounted through the Ser. No. being an indication it isn't original to the Revolver...Not necessarily so given if the Revolver was pulled from existing inventory to fill a customers request...In that time period the Factory would move the Ser. No. to the Left Lower Toe on the Frame under the Stock Panel!!

Not a guarantee yours was...But in the interim thought that may be of interest for you to ponder on until yours arrives & you can check first-hand!!

 

[BC38]

Definitely! I have stuck to my backyard but am scouting spots out here to sight in rifles.

I wish I had a backyard (like yours) where I could shoot whenever I want, you lucky devil.
I'd like to see yours.

Have you ever been to Farragut?

Probably the nicest outdoor range I have ever seen.
Pistol ranges to around 75 yards, and rifle out to around 200 yards (IIRC).

Nice pole buildings closed on 3 sides and open on 1 side (the side facing down-range of course), with cement floors, and big heavy wooden bench rests. BIG 8' high stacks of railroad ties backfilled with an even higher dirt berm for a backstop.

And you get all of that for only a $5 range fee to shoot from 2pm 'til sunset. Unfortunately, I think they may be shutting down for the season pretty soon.

 

[hkcavalier]

These are the only 2 other pics that really shed some light. Auction house says the S/N is stamped on the grip frame under the left panel. I don't know enough about .455 TLs to say if the cylinder has been shaved, but I know enough to check for a S/N on there when I get it in hand.

 

[Hondo44]

Because triple lock cylinders were not heat treated like the model 1917 Army .45 ACP, it’s recommended not to shoot ACP ammo. However 45 Auto Rim is safe because it was loaded to about the same pressure level as 455 ammo. So if you want to shoot ACP reloads loaded to 45 Auto Rim pressure those are safe.

That is the factory Bisley sight!

The serial number normally present on the rear face of the cylinder will be missing since the cylinder has been shaved.

 

[younggun22]

How’d I miss this one!?! Very cool TL!

 

[Masterpiece]

These are the only 2 other pics that really shed some light. Auction house says the S/N is stamped on the grip frame under the left panel.

hkcavalier,

Well those Two Photos along with what you noted about the Ser. No. being moved to the Left Frame under the Stock Panel...Pretty much confirms my suspicions as to Your Revolver likely being originally shipped in the configuration it's now in.

And also that what Jim (Hondo44) has already made you aware of...That Rear Sight "Is" a Factory Drift-Adj. Sight (AKA) Bisley or Military Rear Sight as they are sometimes noted!! Thanks Hondo!!

One other thing somewhat unrelated to add...I just tried to send you a PM to ask a question...And Your PM Inbox is Full & won't accept any incoming PM's until you clear some of the others so you can accept new ones!! Thought you might be interested in knowing that if you were unaware!!

 

[steelslaver]

Once you have it check under the grips to see if the serial number got re stamped on the grip frame.

 

[glowe]

The condition of that revolver is great, indicating it had very pampered life. I might have missed it, but is the rear of the cylinder marked with the serial number? Also, database shows all 1st Models listed just under 10,000 were all shipped in 1914 - 1916 which I believe is too late for those stocks? My only other observation is that most all S&W revolvers with factory lanyards were stamped on the front strap, clearly visible without having to remove the stocks?? With these non-standard issues, a letter is the way to go for that revolver as it should clear up the lanyard, absence of caliber marking, and rear sight alterations.