Officer's Discretion. Any of you old school cops remember that?

4Js

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A few threads in the last couple of days have made me reflect on something that is rapidly disappearing today, if not actually extinct in some areas of the country.

When I started in this business it was common practice to handle some traffic, or otherwise minor infractions in a manner that did not place a burden on resources, but still served the public interest.

What that really meant was, if a warning will do as much, or more good than a citation, write a warning. In the outfit I worked for, a warning counted the same as a citation on your yearly evaluation. Officer discretion was encouraged.

A case in point. I was driving through a small town in my assigned area. I pulled up behind a car at a stop sign and noticed the license plate had been expired for three months. I called the tag in to confirm it was expired.

Got the car pulled over. It was a fifteen year old piece of **** station wagon with a man driving and two dirty faced little kids in the back seat. There were two bags of groceries in the back.

I asked the guy for his license, and he said, "I'm sorry sir, I'm suspended because I don't have insurance." I went back to the car, ran the guy's information and, yep, he had been suspended for the last two weeks.

Now what I'm supposed to do at this point is find the kids' mother, or other responsible adult to come get them. Failing that, call child welfare and have them get the kids. Then I would impound the car and take the guy to the county jail to post bond. The car would remain impounded until it was insured and the license plate brought up to date.

In taking time to talk to the guy, I found out that he had lost his job when the construction company he worked for had gone under. His wife had left him, leaving him to take care of the kids who were not school aged. He had just started getting unemployment checks, and that was keeping the lights on, house heated, and keeping him from getting evicted but that was about as far as that money went. He told me he had only drove that day to go to the grocery store.

I went back to the car, got on the local radio, and called the local police officer and asked him if he knew this guy. The local officer said no, but then a deputy chimed in that he knew the guy. Said he was a good man but was having a long string of really bad luck.

I asked myself, "Jack, what's the best thing for those kids?"

I went back to the guy and said, "Buddy. I can't tell you you can drive your car home. I can tell you that I'm going to get in my car and leave."

That's what I did.

When I cleared the traffic stop the dispatcher told me to call the XO. I got to a phone and called him. He asked me why I hadn't hooked the car and taken the guy to the S.O.

I told him the story. He said "Good, hope the guy gets his life back together."

I had previously worked at a municipal police department. The guy that broke me in had started working at that P.D. two years before I was born.

The first thing he told me when we got in the scout car on my first day was "Boy, just because something's legal don't mean it's right. Just because something's illegal don't mean its wrong."

A long time ago we were peace officers.
 
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We used to, when I was working the east side of the state, call it Sagebrush Justice. Truth is, the only true justice happens on the street. Once it gets to the courts it turns into a matter of what is lawful or not instead of a matter of right and wrong. I always tried to do the right thing......

(P.S., that's one of the reasons I got out. Officer discretion was rapidly disappearing, primarily caused by funds and grants from the federal govt. Gotta keep the right numbers rolling in if you wanna keep your cash!)
 
I remember a couple of times where I had stopped cars and found marijuana in the car. I took the marijuana and emptied the bag out right in front of the driver. The look on their faces were priceless.:D I told them that I only gave someone a warning once, and after that their butts were mine.

Another officer came upon two "lovers" going at it in a public parking lot. He waited for them to get themselves re-arranged, and told the driver to follow him. He took them to a nice secluded spot, that was also safe, and told them no one should bother them there, if they couldn't afford a room.;)
 
Sounds like events of my days on patrol. We used to stop the kids with beer on the way to a party and ask them to go to the curb and empty out the cans. They hated that but were appreciative that they weren't in handcuffs. Such discretion was what kept the community functioning. Today, there's too much "hard ***" policing and a resulting distrust of law enforcement. Some of the young officers I talk to, haven't a clue about their role...it's just a job. I think the sense of pride is gone.
 
I wish I had a dollar for every one I've handled that way. I could have retired several years ago. "I'm not telling you to drive this car, but I'm not gonna be going your way" was long a part of my vocabulary. If this guy had been a troublemaker I would have wrote him a stack of tickets and used the warrants for not paying the fines to pick him up with the next time he got stupid. I love "outstanding warrants." They solve a lot of problems. You handled this guy the way I would have.
 
There are a few deserving people with green cards today whose mitigating circumstances, combined with discretion, warranted a helping hand.

More deponent saith not.
 
Except for things like drunk driving and domestic violence that society has seemed to deem too important to allow much discretion on the part of cops, I haven't noticed discretion change all that much over the years. Even in the old days I knew motor officers who didn't give breaks. But for the average run of the mill patrol officer, they seem to use their discretion OK as far as I can see. I only pity the ones who work for overly ambitious bosses. A simply "take care of it when you can" would be all they'd get from me and my boss would never second guess me for letting someone go with a suspended license on a traffic stop. I wouldn't second guess that decision either. Although there's a good chance I'd search the car if I had a reason to arrest them before letting them go..............In fact, I often don't arrest for minor warrants so that the next cop who stops them can search as well. So they have a $100.00 warrant. Big deal. If I arrest them, they get someone to post the 100.00, OR they stay in jail and get personal bond the next day. They're not going to the county jail for a hundred bucks. If I let them go and they have a gun or dope in the car the next time they get stopped.....The guy who stops them might find the gun or dope because I let them go without arresting them on a cheesy warrant. Works both ways. Letting them go is good for people down on their luck AND catching criminals.

They hated that but were appreciative that they weren't in handcuffs. Such discretion was what kept the community functioning. Today, there's too much "hard ***" policing and a resulting distrust of law enforcement. Some of the young officers I talk to, haven't a clue about their role...it's just a job. I think the sense of pride is gone.

Officers being monitored with audio and video for their entire shift has also put a damper on many forms of discretion. Yep, you can see them being mean and rude to someone and you can also see them letting your kid go when they catch him with half a blunt....so they don't. Works both ways.
 
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Oh boy, 4J's....I don't care what anyone says, back in our day, we all had a prejudice of one or another, didn't we? I had a couple..

1. Don't do a stick up in my area, while I'm on patrol. I had a thing against stick up men, or burglars.

2. A fellow in a ole beat up, falling apart beater (We had vehicle safety inspections back then) is driving that beater with the muffler falling off, maybe the windshield had a crack in it. I might stop him, he was on his way to work, that's all he could afford to get him there. He got a warning ticket...most likely not even that Just a verbal.

Then along come a new Caddy, with it's muffler a hanging down....Yes he's the one who got the ticket. He could afford a new Caddy, he could afford to fix his car.

Old Fed....Same thing, but mine was with beer. Watched them go into the drive thru, bought several cases and a keg and put it in their trunk. I stopped them down the street and had them open the trunk...Both were under aged.....I don't know how much they paid for their beer,. but I made them dump it down the gutter, had them put the empties back in the trunk,, then sent them on their way.

Went back to the store and told the guy that was working , I saw what he had done, and it was with the under aged kids....Same thing...back then a warning went a long way to keeping the streets safe and sane.

I think too, or at least in my case, I came on when I was 28. I had already been in and out of the military, so I already had a lot of the and vinegar out of my system, and didn't have to prove to anyone, how bad I was. I think that because I had some of life's lessons under my belt, that made a big difference on how I treated some of the situations I came upon.

The younger ones these days???? They might get hired now at what 21? Are they really going to know how to handle a domestic situation.

I know, I know, it's a lot of the organizations any more. It's like the new recruits are being trained to "Take no Prisoners". no matter what...


Duh, here I am...Too Soon Old and Too Late Smart.....


WuzzFuzz
 
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There's one in every crowd

Howdy,
That one will be me this time.
I have been run into three times by good guys down on their luck and no insurance..
It's one thing if a guy was a little over the speed limit or a light out, but no lic., no insurance?
I feel for the guy, but I'd hate to see him run into or hurt some law abiding citizen. It happens, I know.
Worse yet, find out he was allowed to do it by the people sworn to protect us from stuff like this.
Thanks
Mike the crab
 
I was working alone one summer night and received a report of a party in a remote wooded area. Pulled my cruiser into a dirt road blocking a couple of dozen cars. Walked about 200 yards to a party, complete with bonfire, and dozens of kids drinking beer. I walked quietly in and sat down on a log, next to a kid drinking a beer. It dawned on him who I was and soon they all scattered into the woods. No-one would come out so I went back to my cruiser and had dispatch run the plates. We then called the parents and, one by one, they came down. I put each of them on the cruisers loud speaker and they called to their sons/daughters to come out. It was a hoot. "Billy, you and your brother get right up here", "Sandy, you are in big trouble young lady". Everyone went home safely and the parents were grateful for that and the fact their kids didn't have to go to court (and I didn't have any paperwork). I wouldn't be allowed to do this today. Parents/police/teachers working together for the good of the children, that was the goal. Today everything is about policy and procedures, much less discretion, and our society is the less for it.
 
When I worked the streets underage drinking was the thing! Several times I would bust up a party only to have the kids tell me" take me to jail, just don't tell my parents please!" Wife beaters qualified for a trip to jail, child abusers same thing except placed with hard core. Several times the Game Warden would catch a poacher, and the evidence would be taken to a family who was struggling to place food on the table . I had been investigated by the Feds twice and the Rangers once for excessive force, but was exonerated .... Several times I had farm boys help me out in a scrape, two drunks won't forget what a whuppin' a cotton farmer can put on ya! I had taken those boys to jail for P.I. more than once, only to have them help without asking. The good ol days!
 
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Oh boy, 4J's....I don't care what anyone says, back in our day, we all had a prejudice of one or another, didn't we? I had a couple..

The younger ones these days???? They might get hired now at what 21? Are they really going to know how to handle a domestic situation.

I know, I know, it's a lot of the organizations any more. It's like the new recruits are being trained to "Take no Prisoners". no matter what...


Duh, here I am...Too Soon Old and Too Late Smart.....


WuzzFuzz


Felonies and DUI's got no breaks. But,I had a problem with arrogant people.

Pulled a car over at 65 (back in the 55mph days). Thinking, "Easy warning." Walk up to the car, the guy rolls the window down and holds a badge and ID card up, and doesn't even look at me.

"Good morning sir, need to see your driver's license."

"I'm a cop." Dude's still looking straight ahead.

"A wonderful profession. I need to see your driver's license."

"I'm a D.C. cop, can't you see the (deleted) badge?"

"I see the badge and it's very attractive, not a nice as mine though. But I didn't ask to see your (deleted) badge, I asked to see your driver's license." He complied, and got a ticket.

This arrogant idiot was one step away from being the sheriff's tenant for the night. The ability to be calm while the other guy's being stupid makes the job fun sometimes.

I started at a P.D. when I was three month's shy of my twenty first birthday. Nope, I didn't know how to handle a domestic situation. I learned quick and had a good old timer for a break in partner. Went to the Patrol at 24, and had another good old school break in partner.

I made a lot of kids pour out a lot of beer. Dumped a few baggies of smoking dope in the ditch.
 
Officer's Discretion. Any of you old school cops remember that?

I started on the job in 1974 and "officer discretion" read common sense was not just an option it was EXPECTED. I retired in 2001 and "officer discretion" Sadly was not an option.
I could go on about this for hours, as to why we lost this important tool in our job. Believe me there is plenty of blame to go around, on all sides. But if I did I would get get myself all wound up for no reason.
 
Well, back in the "old days," that's pretty much how we did it. If someone was down on their luck we'd try to cut them a break.

Most of the arrests I made on misdemeanors were because of the soon-to-be-arrested person's mouth.

But, at least in urban areas (did I mention my area is urban sprawl from the south end of the county to the north?) everyone has a cell phone with a camera, back up officers may have your back, but they tend to tattle to their sergeant or other officers who do so, and our local newspaper seems to like nothing better than catching a cop or other public official doing something they can criticize.

Find another cop who's had too much to drink and has parked his car in a lot and is sleeping it off in the back seat? If the keys are in the ignition it's a DUI and woe to the cop who cuts the other a break (same for a regular citizen). Locally, we had one case where the officer who cut the other a break was very seriously punished for it, and made the paper (twice for the same thing IIRC).

I guess I can live with all this (what could I do about it anyway). But I am really sick of the traffic cops who work the long straight slow areas a write everyone at 8 or more over, yet never, ever work red lights and stop lights. Sure, it's harder to work lights and stop signs, but that's where people get hurt or killed, not, usually, on those long, straight roadways driving 48 in a 40.

Oh well, time marches on. I miss the late 60s and 70s.

Bob
 
Felonies and DUI's got no breaks. But,I had a problem with arrogant people.


I let several would-be "felons" go before. They were older guys and were carrying guns in the middle of the ghetto and had no permits. I wasn't going to arrest them for having common sense....

I've let people go who were over the legal bac limit too. How did we go from being able to give someone a ride home and taking their keys to a mandatory arrest based on an arbitrary number? Today you're legal driving in a straight line, not weaving from point a to point b with a bac of .08 but tomorrow you're not because you drove the same straight line with the same bac but they lowered the limit? And one could argue that it's just as bad to enable a bunch of kids you catch with alcohol and happen to be 20 years old instead of 21 by letting them go when you catch them on their way to a party with a case of beer instead of booking them or sending them off with a ticket and a court date.

These discussions about police discretion are interesting. You're a good cop and using good discretion if you let a guy go for blowing a red light with a warning.....You could theoretically be the tenth "good cop" who let him go that month and the next light he blows will result in someone being killed. BUT....you have a personal (or official) policy that anyone who blows a .08 goes to jail, even if they're driving fine? That's the problem with mandatory arrest rules and formal and informal rules of absolutes. I don't like them whether they're formal or informal rules.

A retired PA State Police Trooper told me the attitude of the new generation is Enforce and Arrest. His motto was Protect and Serve.

I think our society is responsible for that phenomenon, if it exists, and I'm not necessarily agreeing that it does. (Everything was better in the old days....) I know that most guys who came on the job in the 60's and 70's and earlier would absolutely not be able to do the job today with a video and audio recorder over their shoulder. Also...I hear guys on these forums often talking about the good old days of cops who weren't "militarized" or "brutal" or "jack booted thugs". Really? When I came on the job, we still had a few WWII vets around and a bunch of Korean War vets, and a lot more Vietnam Vets, and other non-vets of those eras. Those guys were a hell of a lot more prone to ***-kicking than the kids I see coming on today. And that's a fact. You saw "L.A. Confidential"? Remember Bud White, the brutal cop with the heart of gold? I worked with at least two dozen Bud Whites. The Cops today have more restraint than ever before. You just hear about them more when they screw up because of the internet and cell phone cameras.

As far as arrogant people, I try (TRY) to give them the same slack I hope I'd get if I were having bad day. That doesn't mean I'm always successful. And I don't write cops if there's any way around it. Ever. Arrogant or not. (That's my only close to 'absolute' informal rule). I notice they're more prone to that out West. I also hear they don't like when you give them your police ID with your license. They consider it some sort of insult???
 
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That's how I was taught to police when I started in the late '60s and how I encouraged those who worked for me to approach the job. Andy Griffith of Mayberry fame did the job the right way.
 
I never was a cop, just a lowly night watchman for a huge company. While we didnt give tickets, we could get a person fired. Thats a lot rougher than any ticket, right? Fighting was automatic fireing. One time I was driveing around our property and spotted a neighbor girl that used to clean my house. She had growed up and I hadnt seen her for awhile. We were good friends and I had even taught her to drive. I pulled over and we chatted for awhile. She was waiting at the gate to pick up a boy friend at shift change.
The chute opened and human wave were walking towards the gate. I wasnt manning the gate, another guard was. I pulled my patrol car out of the way and walked back into a knock down fight between two employees a few feet outside the gate. I busted it up, both were bleeding, busted nose`s and teeth knocked loose etc. I said give me your badges. One did, the other said I dont work here. I said the hell ya dont! I seen ya walking out! (Actualy, I hadnt but figuered I was right.) Then he said I threw my badge in that car before we got into it. I looked and it was diane`s car!
I told them both, well you guys take it off the property. If I turn this in your both history! I should have known better. There were many witness`s. This was midnight. The next day I got called in from home by our head of security. He said werch, ya know anything about breaking up a fight last night? It had to be you! Why didnt you report it? I aint sure how I explained myself but I skated and the two employees were fired. I was well liked and about the most experianced on the job. That helped.
A newer or marginal guard would also have lost his job. It turned out these two guys had already got into a fight in the factory and decided to finish it when they got off. Their supervisor started action to fire them and called my HQ the next day and I hadnt turned in a report.
That wasnt the only time I am sure, but the one I can immediately remember.
 
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