cmort666
Member
Driving the speed limit and in accordance with the traffic laws will get you out of more...Just what I do.
Think it got me out of a ticket at least once....
Official Police contact- What do you say?
- Thread starter Rastoff
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I want to say "Well I guess I'm a jerk then" but I have to ask how not telling a cop something that my State legislature says I don't have to tell the cop (unless he asks) makes me a jerk?
I've only ever had one cop ask and given he turned out to be a murderer I'd say I had more to worry about from him than he had to worry about from me.
If it was that much of a concern I'd just ask every single person I encountered.
Does not letting some random person do something (search my car) the U.S. Constitution says I don't have to let him do make me a jerk?
That is a hard fast line BTW. If I am asked for permission to search my vehicle I always refuse. I wouldn't let any other random stranger paw through my private belongings why should I let you?
I don't have to be rude, I can say "I don't consent to any searches" politely. I can also say "I'd like to speak to my attorney before I answer any questions. " politely.
I'd say someone who wants me to unilaterally waive my civil liberties is more of a jerk than I am.
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Pennsylvania is a no declare state, my standard motto is "Don't ask, Don't tell"!
The last time I was stopped was for a PSP fishing expedition for DUI's around the holidays. T he troopers reasoning for stopping me was for the reason that I didn't use my turn signal for a lane change, the only car that would have been effected was about 4 blocks behind me? There was nobody to signal but that is why he stopped me.
All the while he's talking to me he's shinning his flashlight around the inside my truck. Ask me a lot of yes / no questions about drinking, Do you drink...No Were you drinking.... No stuff like that, I was coming home from work and had just stopped for gas and had picked up a coffee. He had seen me drinking that, I politely ask him if he wanted to check it and he declined. His last question ask was do you have anything illegal in here and I answered no! All the while my 36 lay holstered under my seat! didn't say a word about it and there was nothing illegal onboard!
I'll stick with my Don't ask, Don't tell motto!
What that is Proactive Police Work friend. If it's illegal in Pa. not to signal a lane change, then you have no excuse. If it's dark, Policemen generally illuminate the interior of a violators vehicle to look for things that can HARM them or are illegal. I've only been stopped once by a Trooper in Pa. and I informed him of the presence of a firearm as a courtesy.
I have Ayoobs response memorized. Hands on wheel with license in plain view. Dome light on. Motor off. If I am not asked to get out of the car, make no mention I am carrying. If asked to get out say the following: "Certainly, officer, but before I do I want to advise you I am LICENSED to carry and am doing so now. Please tell me how you would like me to proceed." Do not say the word "gun". If another officer is in earshot you may have his stuck in your ear.
I got stopped for having a Padiddle (For those of you under 50 that's having a headlight out).
I always get out my license before stopped. Cop came up and demanded to know what I was "fumbling around" with before I stopped. I advised him I was getting out my wallet. He demanded to know why. I paused and said "Uh, because that's where I keep my license. This had apparently never occurred to him.
I had a thread on here a few months ago about a really nice Trooper that pulled me over. Asked me to step back to his car. I advised him I was carrying. He shrugged and said just leave it there. (I was actually carrying a Glock on my hip and my M340PD in my left pocket). Got back to the car and talked about carry guns. He said his backup was a .380. Asked him if he wanted to see mine. He sure did. Was impressed my an 11 ounce .357 Magnum.
Even gave me a big break on the ticket.
If I don't need to tell I keep my mouth shut.
Jim
I got stopped for having a Padiddle (For those of you under 50 that's having a headlight out).
I always get out my license before stopped. Cop came up and demanded to know what I was "fumbling around" with before I stopped. I advised him I was getting out my wallet. He demanded to know why. I paused and said "Uh, because that's where I keep my license. This had apparently never occurred to him.I had a thread on here a few months ago about a really nice Trooper that pulled me over. Asked me to step back to his car. I advised him I was carrying. He shrugged and said just leave it there. (I was actually carrying a Glock on my hip and my M340PD in my left pocket). Got back to the car and talked about carry guns. He said his backup was a .380. Asked him if he wanted to see mine. He sure did. Was impressed my an 11 ounce .357 Magnum.
Even gave me a big break on the ticket.If I don't need to tell I keep my mouth shut.
Jim
If you're in a "not declare state", don't say anything. There is one caveat: if you are too stupid to avoid reaching for your wallet when it's in close proximity to where you have your gun, you should tell the cop you have a gun. This keeps your head intact.
If you are in a "declare state", simply say: "I have a permit to carry and I have a gun in my waistband."
Simple.
"Do Declare" laws are not meant for the cops' safety, they're meant for yours. Cops already assume you are armed on a traffic stop whether you're armed or not and whether you tell them you are, or not. The smart ones do, anyway.
Less-than-bright CPL holder to St. Peter at the gates...: "Ooopsie, I forgot I had my gun an inch away from my wallet when I failed to mention I was armed and went for my driver license on a traffic stop in a state where I wasn't required to mention I was armed. I thought the cops had to let you get the first round off anyway! He shouldn't have shot me in front of my wife and kids...."
If you are in a "declare state", simply say: "I have a permit to carry and I have a gun in my waistband."
Simple.
"Do Declare" laws are not meant for the cops' safety, they're meant for yours. Cops already assume you are armed on a traffic stop whether you're armed or not and whether you tell them you are, or not. The smart ones do, anyway.
Less-than-bright CPL holder to St. Peter at the gates...: "Ooopsie, I forgot I had my gun an inch away from my wallet when I failed to mention I was armed and went for my driver license on a traffic stop in a state where I wasn't required to mention I was armed. I thought the cops had to let you get the first round off anyway! He shouldn't have shot me in front of my wife and kids...."
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FWIW there are only 10 "Duty to inform" states and one doesn't even penalize you If you fail to inform (Texas)
My 2 cents, I would hand my CCW over with my license! Especially today with the stress of being a LEO ! As you all know a routine DMV stop can turn bad as soon as you walk up to the drivers door! Happens too many times. Lost a buddy on a routine DMV stop, He took 2 in the chest! SO Yes I would inform and wait for instructions!
cmort666
Member
How would ME informing have prevented that?
On the contrary, if I WERE planning to shoot the cop, wouldn't it be advantageous to me to FIRST "put him at his ease" by informing?
Informing, apart from VERY specific instances (such as imminent exposure) serves no GOOD purpose. I don't consider a false sense of security to be something "good".
OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
Thank you for that response.
This is a learning experience for me. I want to be able to help my students with this as it comes up in class a lot.
OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
Well, as far as I know, other states musty not have a law like you do in AR. I have personally been asked this very question at least three times. It is not a "TV cop" thing.
Maybe they are trying to build a case by getting the suspect to admit the crime, I don't know. What I do know is it is a real and common approach by police officers when doing a traffic stop.
That makes no sense to me at all. Why would you hand the officer your CCW permit if he did not ask for it? I can't see anything good coming from that. I also fail to understand how that could have saved your friend's life.
OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
What is a DMV stop?
cmort666
Member
Expired plates?
cmort666
Member
Probably because there's no rationally plausible causal mechanism.
Your showing your license where not required by law would no more have prevented that shooting than your throwing a virgin into a volcano would have. The two acts are COMPLETELY unrelated.
While I may disagree completely with the whole "courtesy" meme, at least it doesn't assert some impossible ability to prevent criminal violence totally disconnected in time and space from the parties involved..
In NM, when I used to drive for a living, I've heard the "Do you know why I stopped you?" and "Do you know how fast you were going?" questions.
I have been taught that it's and attempt to get confession.
Example: The cop notices you have a tail light out, pulls you over and asks
"Do you know why I pulled you over?"
"Speeding?" (Whether you were or not you just confessed)
" Do you know how fast you were going?"
"5 over?" (You just gave a statement against yourself)
"Do you know know the speed limit here?"
"35?" (You just admitted you knew the law and broke it anyway)
And the report the cop writes on the ticket is going to say you admitted to speeding, admitted how fast you were going and admitted that you did it deliberately.
And remember the cop only pulled you over for a tail light.
All that said every State Police officer I've encountered in the last 7 years has introduced himself in the exact same way
"Good afternoon. I am Trooper So and So of the Colorado State Police. I pulled you over because, ------ . I observed you going X amount over the speed limit. I will / will not be citing you for this infraction today."
They say all that before they even ask for your paperwork
I was never really "put at ease" by someone informing me they were armed. Especially when the guy informing me was wearing a vest that said "Outlaws M/C" on the back.
Some older (60's?) moron locally just went to prison for shooting a guy who wasn't a threat during a road rage incident. He didn't look particularly threatening and he had a CPL, but he was a whackjob nonetheless. Informing or not informing, CPL or no CPL never meant anything to me on a traffic stop. Never influenced whether they got a ticket or not, and never resulted in a half-hour roadside conversation about guns either. I would estimate that my department sends at least a couple of letters per week to the county gun board regarding CPL holders who have screwed up. A CPL only means you met the minimum standards for getting a CPL. That's all, and that ain't much. It's not a "good guy card" by any stretch of the imagination.
Just follow the law and use common sense.
Incidentally, I never wrote anyone a ticket for something I didn't observe myself. And I certainly never wrote them a ticket when they had an tail light out and they said they thought they were speeding. That's ridiculous. I don't even KNOW anyone who wrote a ticket under those circumstances. If they said: "Because you saw the blood from the guy I just shot and put in my trunk draining into the street in front of the liquor store I held up", yeah, I might write him a ticket for littering......
My traffic stop line went like this: "Can I please see your license and registration sir?" "Why did you stop me?" "I'll be glad to let you know after you show me your license and registration." I'm not about to argue with people at the side of the road about whether they ran a light or not. People like to argue with you before they give you their license. If they give me their license, I tell them why I stopped them. If they want to argue, they can argue with the vacant space at the side of their car while I'm in mine running them on the computer and writing a ticket, or not writing a ticket. If they refuse to give me their license, I tell them to get out of the car. If they refuse to get out of the car, I call a tow truck and stand there and watch the wheels turning as they try to decide if I'm bluffing or not.
Lots of cops are killed on traffic stops every year, whether from getting hit by other cars or as a result of more nefarious means. I try to minimize my time standing at the side of the road at bar closing time, arguing a civil infraction with someone who is not used to not being in charge. It can be done in a professional, yet firm manner so as to let the person stopped know that they're not in charge of the stop, and that the sooner they comply with lawful orders, the sooner they can be on their way with a ticket, or not. Also, lest you think I get off on being "in charge" of some poor schmuck who ran a red light; A bad attitude from someone, unless it's REALLY over the top, is not likely to influence me one way or the other as far as giving them a ticket. Most cops HATE doing traffic enforcement just for the sake of doing traffic enforcement, but a LOT of actual bad guys are caught as a result of traffic stops. And not all of them "look" like bad guys.
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In West Virginia, they ask for license, registration and proof of insurance. If I get pulled over, I'll have these ready by the time the officer gets to my open drivers window. Do I tell him I'm packin' a gat? Nope.
Protected One
Member
Michigan law requires all CPL holders to notify LEO's of their carry status in the event they are pulled over, so the decision is made for us.
As to what I'd say? Pretty much what the op said, except I would use the phrase ..."and I am carrying" (rather than "and I have it with me", which could be misunderstood to mean the permit rather than a gun).
As to what I'd say? Pretty much what the op said, except I would use the phrase ..."and I am carrying" (rather than "and I have it with me", which could be misunderstood to mean the permit rather than a gun).
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