OLD or NEW?

[BigBill]

Tdan, relax brother I own both new key start models and old models there both equal in performance so far. People that aren’t sure what some convincing answers there not sure and these fine revolvers aren’t cheap anymore.

As a retired class A machine builder/erector the CNC Control is unbelievable accuracy wise. We can do off sets to the millioniths in the control. The parts can be so accurately made less hand fitting is required.
I was responsible for machines from birth to shipping some worth over a million dollars.

 

[jcelect]

In the mid 90’s S&W began to crank out their guns using CNC milling machines

I toured the S&W plant in the early 1980s and they had a room full(large room)of CNC equipment! I seen the casing for a gear box on a washing machine being machined, a shift lever for a Harley Davidson being machined, and many more parts for non gun related items being made! The explanation was, "we need to keep the machines running to make money"! A man can not machine parts as fast and as accurate, repeatedly, as a CNC machine!
jcelect

 

[BigBill]

As long as you have a good programmer.

 

[sigp220.45]

I have no doubt the new revolvers are excellent guns. I just hate they way they look.

The recontoured frame to accomodate the frame mounted firing pin and the lock just looks wrong. The exception would be the N frames which apparently had enough room in there that they didn’t need to be changed. But even those have the cheesy barrel markings.

Colt seems to have gotten it right with their new Python. There are changes, but it looks like a Python. Almost a year into production and they can’t keep up with demand on a $1500 gun.

I’m glad the new S&W revolvers are good guns and appear to be selling well.

 

[llowry61]

The question is not quality and reliability to me. I think both new and old will probably outshoot the skill of an average shooter and outlive the number of rounds fired by the average shooter. To me, the older guns are works of art as well as functional, so that is what I buy. Will I be "stuck" with a bunch of S&W pre mim pre lock guns ? Maybe, I don't know. That is why I follow the first rule of collecting, buy what you like. You may have it for the remainder of your life and I am ok with that.

 

[GerSan69]

This has been the most informative discussion of old vs. new (IMHO) that I've seen in some time. I learned a few new things and having bought a 2013-vintage 638 recently from a friend that needed the cash, I can attest to what was said here about these newer firearms. I may not be ready to go out and look for more of the new stuff, but at least, when I run across one, I won't automatically pass it by.

 

[hemiram]

My main issues with new S&W guns is the lock and the looks. Yeah, I know I can plug the hole and eliminate the lock, but the looks are another thing altogether. The 2 piece barrels aren't great looking, and the styling of some of the newer guns is, IMHO, "What were they thinking?". The same goes for new S&W semiautos, they look ridiculous to me, even for a polymer gun, which makers seem to want to make them bizarre looking. CZ and Sig seem to be able to make attractive polymer guns that look like their metal ones. That other companies don't do this, or can't, seems crazy to me.

And yes, newer guns and new cars are better than old ones in pretty much every way but they don't look right. Young people ARE very interested in my car, one of the few presently made good looking ones. I get asked questions about it from cart boys/girls, and kids at stoplights all the time. One of the recent kids said, "I really like your car, it's too bad they messed up the Camaro!". I totally agree...Thankfully, they didn't mess up the Challenger:

 

[bearman49709]

He makes some excellent points but ask yourself why the older smith’s sell for much more then the newer ones....Nostalgia maybe or people just people like owning a quality firearm. Now I’m not bashing the new Smiths I own several and they’re great guns I carry one every day this is just one man’s opinion.

I buy all of my S&W revolvers used because they are hundreds of dollars cheaper than the new ones, normally two thirds the cost of the same gun new.

 

[slabside2]

I buy all of my S&W revolvers used because they are hundreds of dollars cheaper than the new ones, normally two thirds the cost of the same gun new.

When I say older ones I’m talking pre 1994 before they starting using MIM parts and two piece barrels.

 

[steelslaver]

I have everything for top breaks to scandium framed hammer less big bores. M,I,J,K,L,N and X frames.I have had to work on the older guns more than the newer, but that is because they also had a lot more use. I personally have not had a single problem with any of the lock or MIM guns.

They are not as pretty, maybe not as smooth, but the really smooth ones have been either tinkered with or the parts have worn together.

Do I want a registered magnum? Yes, sirree Bob! Do I want a scandium J framed 327? Yes, sirree Bob!

In the 1970s I bought a model 18 and the barrel started turning. Did the whole world find out about it? No, just some S&W guy on the phone. Wonder how many other bad guns in the past 100+++ years that only the owner and a gunsmith knew about. Thousands of them.


The bad guns. Yes S&W does mess up more than they should now days. But, now days everyone that has a problem with anything runs to their computer. Where would someone searching S&W problems end up? Right here is where and we hear about almost every one. Even some of those with the famous side plate crack! LOL

I bet some people right here on this forum have a beautiful old craftsmanship S&W revolvers stuffed away in their elegance that had to get tweaked by their original owners. We know about the ones with factory rework marks, but we will never know which ones some other smith fixed some minor problem on.

 

[bmcgilvray]

I will happily refuse to own a new Smith & Wesson revolver.

Just

don't

want

to

know.

I'll take the oldies for all purposes from collecting to using.

 

[steelslaver]

None of those new fangled radial tires for me

None of that fuel injection on anything I drive

None of them there electron ignitions with a computer cars for me

None of that multi viscosity oil in my car.

My 62 Ford gets 13 mpg and only needs a tune up every 10-15,000 miles when the tires are worn out and the motor last about 100,000 miles per rebuilt. Reminds me I better go grease all those zerts.

You guys with them new 300,000 mile cars with the 50,000 mile tires and no grease zerts getting 20+ mpg just don't understand the quality of my 62 Ford. No computers or CNC or MIM or robots to build this baby. It was built by American craftsmanship!!


Alrighty then

But, I do like them old time S&W finishes and extra touches

 

[357 shooter]

The Model 19 Classic example reviewed in American Rifleman a while back showed very good accuracy.

Yeah 1.52" for 5 consecutive 5 shot groups at 25 with 3 kinds of ammo , not bad as this was not a Ransom Rest but shot from some type of rest.

Their test gun exhibited creep too in the SA like my new 586-8 . A crisp clean glass rod trigger break is one feature I have always appreciated in Smith's SA triggers.

I have two Smith revolvers with MIM internals - a 629-5 Classic 44 Mag and 66-5 357 and the triggers on both are quite good , especially the 629.

The guy in the video before calling the old internals junk did say that a lot of the problems in the old guns were user created. Plus the fact that many had been around up to 50 years. And I'm sure a police armorer sees a lot more guns that seen hard use.

 

[Deceasedeye]

None of those new fangled radial tires for me

None of that fuel injection on anything I drive

None of them there electron ignitions with a computer cars for me

None of that multi viscosity oil in my car.

My 62 Ford gets 13 mpg and only needs a tune up every 10-15,000 miles when the tires are worn out and the motor last about 100,000 miles per rebuilt. Reminds me I better go grease all those zerts.

You guys with them new 300,000 mile cars with the 50,000 mile tires and no grease zerts getting 20+ mpg just don't understand the quality of my 62 Ford. No computers or CNC or MIM or robots to build this baby. It was built by American craftsmanship!!


Alrighty then

But, I do like them old time S&W finishes and extra touches

If it wasn't for that ethanol in that new-fangled gas you probably wouldn't need tune-ups as often!

 

[Frank46]

I used to be an old guy who liked his blued steel and walnut revolvers and pistols. My first non traditional pistol is a Beretta 92FS with the aluminum frame. So when the surplus West German Sig P6's came out didn't hesitate to get one and have no regrets. Then I drew the line at plastic framed pistols until I shot one belonging to a good friend. So money permitting I bought a S&W M&P 2.0 4" barreled 9mm. But unfortunately all the local ranges are shut down due the chinese virus. But if the way my friends S&W M&P 9mm shot is any indication then I think I'm in for a treat. Frank

 

[Oracle]

I don't have any major issues with the lock hole. I believe the kits to plug the hole don't really solve appearance issues much. You don't see a hole, you see a plug, kind of like spackling nail holes.

I am a huge fan of GunBlue490 and I have learned a great deal from his videos.

 

[BigBill]

My question is Springfield Armory put the on/off key switch on the rear housing on the 1911 on the main spring. Why didn’t s&w do the same thing? Does the hole in the side of the revolver let water and dust into it if it’s holstered?

Note, I wasn’t worried about the SA 1911 key switch what scared me the most was the “Made in Brazil”.(2004)

 

[TTSH]

I’m glad the new S&W revolvers are good guns and appear to be selling well.

Me too. It keeps the mothership in the revolver business and leaves more of the real S&W classics out there for me to find. I see it as a "Win-Win" situation.

Yes S&W does mess up more than they should now days. But, now days everyone that has a problem with anything runs to their computer. Where would someone searching S&W problems end up? Right here is where and we hear about almost every one.

So the real problem is the Interwebs! I knew it!

When dear old Dad had a problem with an S&W, he just dropped it off at the guard shack and picked it up the next day, fixed and cleaned... and never a charge. Even if there had been the Internet, there would have been no reason to complain.

Now, we wait weeks or months...and pray it comes back to us undamaged.

Even some of those with the famous side plate crack! LOL

Okay, I have to admit it. Those posts are always good for a laugh!

 

[ladder13]

None of those new fangled radial tires for me

None of that fuel injection on anything I drive

None of them there electron ignitions with a computer cars for me

None of that multi viscosity oil in my car.

My 62 Ford gets 13 mpg and only needs a tune up every 10-15,000 miles when the tires are worn out and the motor last about 100,000 miles per rebuilt. Reminds me I better go grease all those zerts.

You guys with them new 300,000 mile cars with the 50,000 mile tires and no grease zerts getting 20+ mpg just don't understand the quality of my 62 Ford. No computers or CNC or MIM or robots to build this baby. It was built by American craftsmanship!!


Alrighty then

But, I do like them old time S&W finishes and extra touches

That there is funny ^^^^^

 

[RWPBR]

None of those new fangled radial tires for me

None of that fuel injection on anything I drive

None of them there electron ignitions with a computer cars for me

None of that multi viscosity oil in my car.

My 62 Ford gets 13 mpg and only needs a tune up every 10-15,000 miles when the tires are worn out and the motor last about 100,000 miles per rebuilt. Reminds me I better go grease all those zerts.

You guys with them new 300,000 mile cars with the 50,000 mile tires and no grease zerts getting 20+ mpg just don't understand the quality of my 62 Ford. No computers or CNC or MIM or robots to build this baby. It was built by American craftsmanship!!


Alrighty then

But, I do like them old time S&W finishes and extra touches

Bad analogy. If radial tires only came in an ugly pink with yellow stripes would you still buy them?