Old S&W .38 spl reloads

[slabuda]

What sort of loads should I look at doing?

Have some Hornady 158 gr SWC on order and about 3 lbs of Bullseye.

Does any one have pet loads for target shooting?

Should I be looking at the minimum/powder puff loads or can I use the Hornady manual and go up to about 725 to 750 fps loads (forget how many grains they were)?


It will be in a pre war M&P from late 1920's

 

[wheelgun610]

The main potential issue with Bullseye is the possibility of a double charge. Not something you want to have happen.

My standard all-'round .38 load has always been 5 gr. Unique under a 158 SWC . I know a lot of modern manuals (now) list that as being in +P territory, but it wasn't when I first started using it, and I've always had good accuracy with it in most everything I've put it through.

Mark

 

[slabuda]

I understand the double charge possibilty. Same goes wit 700x. I reload .38 spl as closely, and maybe even more so than my rifle loads.

Each one hits the scale before going in and no distractions allowed.

 

[Kframe]

In a gun of that vintage, I'd steer completely clear of any jacketed rounds.

Cylinder heat treating began around serial number 316648 (1919-1920ish, your gun "late 1920's" should be fine, but I'd double check).

As far as 'target loads' and Bullseye powder, THE LOAD for many many shooters has been 2.7gn Bullseye under a 148gr wadcutter.

No reason a 158gn slug shouldn't perform adequately, with *probably around 2.5gn Bullseye. Should be in the high-600 to low-700fps range.

In case there are unaware readers of this post, heavier bullets generally require slightly less powder than a lighter slug of the same composition/diameter. Which is counter-intuitive at first, until it is understood that the heavier slug has greater inertia, resisting movement at first, which allows the pressure to build higher and so the lighter charge can actually result in higher chamber pressure = more velocity.

*2.5gn Bullseye may or may not be a good charge for 158gn lead in your particular revolver. Consult published commercial data and not just my guesstimate!

 

[slabuda]

Just grabbed the Hornady book.

158 gr SWC and Bullseye using a 4" barrel the have:

Starting load
2.8 gr--650fps

3.1 gr 700fps

3.4 gr 750fps

Max
3.7 gr 800 fps


Dont see me going over 3.2 gr

May try 2.8 and work up to 3.1 going at 0.1 per increase testing for accuracy.

 

[DWalt]

With 158 grain LSWC bullets, 4.0 grains of Bullseye is an excellent load. Depending on your specific revolver and its barrel length the MV should be in the range of about 830-880 ft/sec, and will be perfectly safe. This is the load I use exclusively. As stated, one must be careful to visually inspect every charged case to ensure there are no double charges.

 

[Archie]

Objection, if the gentlemen will hear it.

I tend to bypass 'faster' ('faster' being a relative and not absolute term) powders in these old guns. The 'fast' powder charges give lower velocities, but not always lower pressure. The pressure they do generate evolves quickly; therefore the applied pressure is sudden.

For this reason, I generally use slightly 'slower' powders such as Unique or Power Pistol. Typically, I'll use the lower end loads, which develop 'lesser' pressures and the pressure curves is spread out over a slightly longer time. (Think of the difference of placing a hammer on your large toe and dropping the same hammer on the same toe.)

 

[JoeReed]

I use 4.1 grains unique with 13.5 bhn flat lead semiwad cutters at 158 grains. In case he has a second powder.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Well since the OP has a starting point of already having Horn 158 swaged swc , and 3lb of Bullseye , I use that starting point.

While there are popular classic loads that were normal in the day , and currently +P , * I Percieve * that the OP is looking for somthing else. * I think * he wants equiv to factory std vel 158 load , or slightly less.

Whatever charge of Bullseye gives 675-750fps in your gun. Within that range select for best accuraccy. Probably be within a cpl tenths above or below 3.0grs.

 

[BC38]

On a related note, for loading copper plated 158gr SWC you would also decrease the charge, correct?

Based on the principle of decreasing charge to compensate for the greater inertia of the heavier bullet, you would also decrease the charge slightly for the increase in friction of copper plating vs. bare lead, correct?

 

[alwslate]

I have loaded many 38 spl loads with 158 gr cast bullets with a variety
of powders over the last 20 yrs or so. I shoot them in all my 38 spl
revolvers from old M&Ps to my N frame 357s. In general I get better
accuracy with RNs rather than SWCs but it can vary depending on the
gun. A good plinking velocity range is 700-750 fps in my opinion.
Accuracy and consistancy seem to decline below about 700 fps with
158 gr bullets. Talking about velocity from 4" barrels. Faster powders
are best for several reasons and with Bullseye 3.2-3.5 grs would be
what I would suggest.

 

[Muley Gil]

For a plinking load, I use a 158 grain lead cast SWC over 3.0 grains of Bullseye.

However, always check ANY load you get off of the Internet against several reloading manuals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[slabuda]

For this reason, I generally use slightly 'slower' powders such as Unique or Power Pistol.

Interesting you say that. I do also have some power pistol and didnt think of using it as I tend to think of faster burning = higher velocities = more pressure but you say its the opposite. Your explanation makes sense and the books show power pistol and unique using slightly more powder so slower burning. With a 6" tube I still should get a clean burn. Added benifit is for same velocity I use 1.2 gr or so more powder and have less chance of visually missing a double charge.


So maybe power pistol is the powder to use to preserve this old gun?

And yes. Looking for a 158 gr LSWC (hornady bullets) std velocity load for target shooting/plinking with this gun in the 700-750 fps range.

 

[DWalt]

Read my #6. This is not an idle opinion or guess on my part. I have used Bullseye in many handgun loads for many years, and the velocity information is from a chronograph. Bullseye is a great powder in .38 Special loads (and most everything else), and the commercial grade of Bullseye is what most ammunition companies use for loading .38 Special standard loads, or at least did for many years. The ONLY concern with Bullseye is avoiding double charges. You have Bullseye, so use it. If you want to use a lighter load, 3.5 grains of Bullseye will give you a MV of around 730-770 ft/sec, depending upon your revolver. If you want a +P load, go to 4.2 grains. That will push it into the mid-900's range. No two revolvers will give you identical average MVs with the same load.

 

[elpac3]

I have used 2.8 of BE with the Hornaday's 158 swc as my standard 50 foot target load for 30 years.

The precaution I use in loading with all powders is once the case is primed, I wil charge the case, visually check the powder then seat the bullet. I have never batch charged cases. I also verify the charge weight every 10 rounds with BE and other similar, consistent metering powders. Other powders like unique and red dot I will typically check every third charge.

 

[gwpercle]

For a standard velocity load, not powder-puff or +P , my S&W model 64 likes 3.5 grains of Bullseye , 158 grain cast SWC or RN with plain base, for a velocity of about 750 fps. Load Safe !
Gary

 

[alwslate]

Interesting you say that. I do also have some power pistol and didnt think of using it as I tend to think of faster burning = higher velocities = more pressure but you say its the opposite. Your explanation makes sense and the books show power pistol and unique using slightly more powder so slower burning. With a 6" tube I still should get a clean burn. Added benifit is for same velocity I use 1.2 gr or so more powder and have less chance of visually missing a double charge.


So maybe power pistol is the powder to use to preserve this old gun?

And yes. Looking for a 158 gr LSWC (hornady bullets) std velocity load for target shooting/plinking with this gun in the 700-750 fps range.

Faster powders are best for light loads and are almost always
used by those who load for maximum accuracy. Slower
powders like Power Pistol don't burn efficently at the lower
pressures while the fastest powders do. Trying to second
guess the Ballisticians who develop load data and pressure
test them is ludicrous. Yes slower powders push longer and
are used for higher velocity loads but to assume that a load
with a fast powder that developes pressure that's mild for
your gun may harm it because of the pressure curve
generated while a slower powder at the same pressure won't,
...may sound logical but it just ain't so. Double charging a
case is an operator problem not a powder problem.

 

[solman]

There are Manuals that show pressure in C.U.P. with the load. Now thats not carved in stone but i use em as a 'general idea' of the pressure.

 

[DWalt]

There have been extensive discussions here about the shortcomings of the CUP method, so no need to get back into that again. It's an obsolete methodology anyway.

 

[slabuda]

Did some test loads today. Hard to judge accuracy as it was quite windy but the 3.1 and 3.5 gr were the best.

Going to go for 3.1 gr of bullseye
Easy recoiling and on the gun and decent accuracy, especially as I dont see the sights as good as adjustable targets like on the Colt Officers Model target I tested out today for the first time as well.

Time to load up the rest of my on hand brass.