old school

[Magnum_PI]

To me, this is just stuff for the (largely) Tactical Timmy crowd.

For everyday people, who actually carry daily, it's going to be added weight, may not work or break when you need it, and just take up more space.

I'm not some Delta Operator going to war, I'm going to the super market. 5 shot J Frame has gotten me in and out for many years, ALIVE! Haha.

What further kills me is they often shove all this junk down the front of their pants. So, you've got a (often full size or compact) pistol, red dot, flashlight, extended magazine, doo dads or accessories, gaudy slide cuts you paid for, etc. Etc... all for the miniscule chance you need it? Then it's possibly seized while the shooting is investigated? No thanks.

Decent red dot: $300 and up. Sometimes more expensive then the gun!
Decent flashlight: $120 and up (think Streamlight).
Fancy extra stuff: varies.
Fancy tacticool holsters: usually $120 and up for PLASTIC!
Looking like a wannabe Chuck Norris, priceless (I guess?)

The only thing I have a Holo Sight on is my AR. Simply because I'm right handed and left eye dominant, it's harder to shoot right with irons on long guns.

On a handgun, no thanks. Carrying it everyday, also no thanks.

I have now carried for 16 years. Less then some here. Never had a shootout. Never had to stop Red Dawn or a pack of terrorists. Just saying...

I want to see if they're still toting all this stuff into their 30s and 40s when you start feeling it more...

 

[wood714]

I have a Crimson Trace laser on a G23 with a 9mm conversion barrel, and a dot sight on my Ruger 22/45.

Don't carry either of them or use them as night stand guns. They are a lot of fun for range time thou.

 

[Miami_JBT]

To me, this is just stuff for the (largely) Tactical Timmy crowd.

For everyday people, who actually carry daily, it's going to be added weight, may not work or break when you need it, and just take up more space.

I'm not some Delta Operator going to war, I'm going to the super market. 5 shot J Frame has gotten me in and out for many years, ALIVE! Haha.

What further kills me is they often shove all this junk down the front of their pants. So, you've got a (often full size or compact) pistol, red dot, flashlight, extended magazine, doo dads or accessories, gaudy slide cuts you paid for, etc. Etc... all for the miniscule chance you need it? Then it's possibly seized while the shooting is investigated? No thanks.

Decent red dot: $300 and up. Sometimes more expensive then the gun!
Decent flashlight: $120 and up (think Streamlight).
Fancy extra stuff: varies.
Fancy tacticool holsters: usually $120 and up for PLASTIC!
Looking like a wannabe Chuck Norris, priceless (I guess?)

The only thing I have a Holo Sight on is my AR. Simply because I'm right handed and left eye dominant, it's harder to shoot right with irons on long guns.

On a handgun, no thanks. Carrying it everyday, also no thanks.

I have now carried for 16 years. Less then some here. Never had a shootout. Never had to stop Red Dawn or a pack of terrorists. Just saying...

I want to see if they're still toting all this stuff into their 30s and 40s when you start feeling it more...

I've been carrying for over two decades now. My six-shot all steel double-action revolvers weigh more than the RDS equipped pistol you're bemoaning.

My S&W 686, Colt King Cobra (original), and Ruger GP100 all weigh more than a modern day compact 9mm with RDS, WML, and a good capacity magazine.

If I can carry that everyday, carrying a modern equipped gun ain't a problem.

I simply choose not too.

 

[JMD999]

I have taken notice of the number of folks at the range who have lasers and small reflex red dot sights on their carry guns.

Fine, that's there choice.

Two observations:
1) Battery failures are common at the range. I see it multiple times a week.
2) Watching the lasers track on the target (not to mention anywhere and everywhere else!) gives me a cringe worthy view of just how incredibly bad many of these folks are with their trigger control and follow-through. Yikes, can you say "Flinch"?

Seriously. These folks need to get themselves a decent full-size .22 and start working on their marksmanship fundamentals!

If you can't shoot, all the gadgets in the world won't help you.

Many think the bullet hits where the laser dot is, forgetting they still need to do the trigger work

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Never had a shootout.

I want to see if they're still toting all this stuff into their 30s and 40s when you start feeling it more...

So you never had gang members ambush you when you was "off-duty"?

Your first shootout will change your perspective. Also Professional Training like Thunder Ranch will increase your odds of survival.

 

[tlawler]

I guess I am just and old fart who is old school. When I see post about peoples EDC and they are saying "here's my EDC its a xyz with a 2000 lume light under and a xyz red dot on top" my first thought is wheres the bayonet.
I am old school and even with my aging bad eyes my iron sights seem to do ok at defensive distances. I don't want a light on my gun, but I do carry one. I don't shoot any farther than 25 yrds. I don't need the extra weight or size to CC.
that's how this old timer rolls.

I just about spit out my soda when I got to that part

 

[Bourbonieer]

Some people I know conceal a GLOCK 19 with a Surefire X300 and a RDS. They carry IWB appendix with kydex. If I carried the way they do, I'd be miserable.

For me, it is OWB with leather. Different bodies are shaped differently. I'm not squat and fat instead of squared-away and fit.

I highly doubt they're comfortable. I suppose comfort is subjective, but I don't see how stuffing all that shizz in your pants near the dangly bits is comfortable. I carry a shield AIWB at about 1 o'clock and I'm 5-11 / 230. Anything much larger, for me, has to go to 3/4 o'clock. I did come around to AIWB from strong side, but I don't think it's comfortable to stuff anything down there. I just ordered an IWB for a 5906 and it's a strong side holster.

 

[kmyers]

Everything here is strictly stock with me carrying the weapon since Better Half knows from years back that I will not hesitate for the few times we have heard sounds in the yard, nothing but neighborhood cats and such. She typically has a flashlight that will light up the entire yard, cell phone and a backup pistol.

 

[NYlakesider]

As a person that believes in KISS. (Keep It Simple Stupid) My normal carry gun is a very simple LCR.38 with pocket holster. That for normal go to the store and general easy times.

Things get a lot more interesting and I will upgrade to a XDs.45.
As NY does not allow large cap mags, I need not carry a larger gun.

Note neither of these weapons has stuff hanging on. As others have said I'm not a cop, I'm smart and usually know enough to stay out of bad places/ bad times.

After going to the range and seeing the amount of those electronic sighting devices have dead batteries or the attachment is a bit loose and therefore shoots all over the place, not for me! Luddite status work for me!

As I never say never, I trust if a shooting situation develops which is rare to begin with, it will be at very close (Bad breath range) my above guns will be perfect. I have legally carried since the early 1970s and never had that serious a problem out in public.

 

[gym cat]

One of the issues I see at the range is certain people get hung up on I'll call it equipment. gun, extra extra mags, lights, red dots etc. and do NOT know how to actually shoot. Example: Was at an indoor range which I frequent often. The guy next to me was shooting what looked like a space gun with every acc. you could think off. Let me say this all great and each have a place. However, after seeing his target( he was shooting from 20 to 30 feet) And I'm talking about a large target with 6 bullseyes. He fired 50 rounds and maybe 6 rounds hit a bullseye the rest were scattered all over and probably not 50 holes anywhere on the target. I know this is an extreme instance but I think some people are trying to buy being a good shot instead go actually learning the basic concepts and practicing them. My point is all this stuff is great but if you can't shoot -- Well you get my Jist - if you have to pull the trigger let's hope you hit what you're aiming at.

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

3 decades OTJ, 2 decades carrying retired. 442 is my sweet spot. I had plenty enough time packing big pistols, radios, cuffs, flashlight, mace, extra ammo and a nightstick.

Promoted I went to a J frame and never looked back. Fifty years later it's still a 5 shot DAO. Mostly OWB leather. Rarely cargo pocket carry.

 

[Miami_JBT]

Again, I carry this old chunks of steel. I know their limitations and I'm confident with my skills. But I also understand that a micro-compact 9mm with a WML and RDS and a capacity greater than a GLOCK 19 is a better choice.

Again, it ain't the arrow, it is the Indian.

Gear doesn't substitute skill. A great shooter with subpar gear will still outshoot a subpar shooter with great gear.

 

[jimmyj]

a revolver and a straight razor. what else do yoy need ?

 

[BB57]

One of the issues I see at the range is certain people get hung up on I'll call it equipment. gun, extra extra mags, lights, red dots etc. and do NOT know how to actually shoot. Example: Was at an indoor range which I frequent often. The guy next to me was shooting what looked like a space gun with every acc. you could think off. Let me say this all great and each have a place. However, after seeing his target( he was shooting from 20 to 30 feet) And I'm talking about a large target with 6 bullseyes. He fired 50 rounds and maybe 6 rounds hit a bullseye the rest were scattered all over and probably not 50 holes anywhere on the target. I know this is an extreme instance but I think some people are trying to buy being a good shot instead go actually learning the basic concepts and practicing them. My point is all this stuff is great but if you can't shoot -- Well you get my Jist - if you have to pull the trigger let's hope you hit what you're aiming at.

During my time in MN I shot at an indoor range in one of the St Paul suburbs. While practicing bullseye with one of my High Standard Victors an off duty police officer showed up in the lane next to me with a friend of his and his friends girlfriend. He proceeded to both hold court on his shooting expertise as an officer, but scattered rounds all over a target at 7 yards in rapid fire.

As I pulled in my target showing a suitably small precision pistol group he commented “I see you’re into that accuracy stuff. We’re not, we’re into tactical shooting”. It rubbed me the wrong way, especially after a couple decades of practical pistol shooting and six years of law enforcement shooting, where accuracy is a decided advantage.

I just smiled at him but pulled an FBI bottle target from my target bag and ran it out to the 10 yard line. I looked at him again, and he’d noticed the target change, so I drew my 1911 concealed carry pistol (in 9mm) and proceeded to run three very fast Mozambique drills in quick succession on the target, with an extra shot to the head at the end to bring it to slide lock. The end result was a 3” group from the double taps in the chest and a 2” group in the head.

Then I looked at him and his two friends who had clearly noticed the difference in accuracy at the same speed he’d been shooting and said “It’s all accuracy stuff”.

I then ran out another bullseye target and went back to my High Standard Victor. He left about 2 minutes later.

I hope he, as an LEO, took the lesson intended to heart and recognized that a) he wasn’t a very good shot, even by LEO standards and if didn’t up his game b) he just might encounter a dangerous suspect some day who *could* shoot and would teach him a final, fatal lesson that he could not learn from.

 

[BB57]

If you have all the gadgets but lack the willingness to put bullets in a bad guy you need to have a different Plan.

If I recall correctly, 4 percent of recruits show up at Basic training with a psychological readiness to shoot an enemy soldier. One of the functions of basic training is to try to instill that mind set into the other 96 percent.

When I see armed citizens, I wonder how many of them have the necessary level of mental preparedness to shoot if necessary.

It’s probably fortunate that 85 percent of defensive handgun uses are successfully concluded without the armed citizen needed to fire.

I had two duty related handgun uses, but in 38 years of off duty or armed citizen concealed carry I only had one instance where I needed to draw and fully intended to shoot the assailant as many times as needed to stop the assault.

The situation developed in large part through my own in attention, distraction and failure to maintain adequate situational awareness. I’d gotten off the metro about 8:40 at night, well after dark, hurried to and ATM, withdrew $300 and then started rapidly walking the few blocks to the AT&T store do deal with a bricked phone.

I turned a block too early, immediately turned around and encountered a 20-30 something Hispanic in a hoody bringing a hand up toward my neck and a knife out of his pocket. No doubt an attempted mugging, absent the knife I’d have just given him the wallet. But I’m not risking my life on the assumption he’s not going to use it.

The rest was just instinct and training. I used my momentum in the turn to slam my left hand into his chest to drive him off balance while blading my body and continuing to drive into him to give me time and space for the draw while blocking his knife hand. My right hand went to my right hip and lifted my jacket to draw. That’s when he realized he was about to get shot, got his feet back under him and fled. I fully intended to shoot him, but the 1.2-1.5 seconds I normally need to draw and fire the first round from concealment just wasn’t fast enough given the situation and his quick realization of just how pear shaped his attempted mugging had become.

The successful conclusion here with no shots fired was due to my certainty that I was willing to shoot him, and *his* equal certainty that I was willing to shoot him.

One of the primary rules to surviving a self defense situation is to act and take the initiative. If you stand there thinking about techniques and how you plan to meet the attack you are at best reactive and will be way behind the curve. Your techniques don’t have to be perfect, they just have to be immediate and effective at both gaining / regaining the initiative and turning the tables on the assailant.

 

[Miami_JBT]

If I recall correctly, 4 percent of recruits show up at Basic training with a psychological readiness to shoot an enemy soldier. One of the functions of basic training is to try to instill that mind set into the other 96 percent.

When I see armed citizens, I wonder how many of them have the necessary level of mental preparedness to shoot if necessary.

It’s probably fortunate that 85 percent of defensive handgun uses are successfully concluded without the armed citizen needed to fire.

I had two duty related handgun uses, but in 38 years of off duty or armed citizen concealed carry I only had one instance where I needed to draw and fully intended to shoot the assailant as many times as needed to stop the assault.

The situation developed in large part through my own in attention, distraction and failure to maintain adequate situational awareness. I’d gotten off the metro about 8:40 at night, well after dark, hurried to and ATM, withdrew $300 and then started rapidly walking the few blocks to the AT&T store do deal with a bricked phone.

I turned a block too early, immediately turned around and encountered a 20-30 something Hispanic in a hoody bringing a hand up toward my neck and a knife out of his pocket. No doubt an attempted mugging, absent the knife I’d have just given him the wallet. But I’m not risking my life on the assumption he’s not going to use it.

The rest was just instinct and training. I used my momentum in the turn to slam my left hand into his chest to drive him off balance while blading my body and continuing to drive into him to give me time and space for the draw while blocking his knife hand. My right hand went to my right hip and lifted my jacket to draw. That’s when he realized he was about to get shot, got his feet back under him and fled. I fully intended to shoot him, but the 1.2-1.5 seconds I normally need to draw and fire the first round from concealment just wasn’t fast enough given the situation and his quick realization of just how pear shaped his attempted mugging had become.

The successful conclusion here with no shots fired was due to my certainty that I was willing to shoot him, and *his* equal certainty that I was willing to shoot him.

One of the primary rules to surviving a self defense situation is to act and take the initiative. If you stand there thinking about techniques and how you plan to meet the attack you are at best reactive and will be way behind the curve. Your techniques don’t have to be perfect, they just have to be immediate and effective at both gaining / regaining the initiative and turning the tables on the assailant.

To most people, a gun is a magical talisman that wards away evil.

 

[rosewood]

GLOCKS : one can buy a standard model Glock for $600. minus/plus and turn it into a $3000.00 weapon with after market accessories.some folks like "Extras".

I call that "Gun Bling".

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

1973 I go on the job, city issued S&W #10 with 18 rounds. Six in the gun and 12 in loops on the NYPD style swivel holster. Loading two at a time was a "speed" load. Police academy stress knowing and practice of proper indexing of those two rounds, just in case. To this day I stick with S&W revolvers because that indexing could save your ***.

Today I teach these range qualification classes. I mention cylinder rotation and learning which way the gun works and sticking with whatever brand and...

Yeah, they look at me like I just stepped off a spaceship. When they learn that my favorite concealed carry is a DAO 5 shot, well that is so "Old School" I must be dead.

Redemption is achieved when shooting demos start. Wow the shooting world is filled with those $3,000. Glocks.

 

[Jack19]

People think equipment is a substitute for skill. Sadly, manufacturers are meeting the demand to the detriment of those of us who don't need, or want, it.

I'd been looking around for an M&P Compact 2.0 without the RDS cut or the suppressor height sights, both of which I'll never use. It was tough to find. Ultimately I found a discontinued 11686 at a small shop near me, and I was really happy to find it.

 

[jimmyj]

The last time I was asked "Why Do You Carry A Gun"? I replied, "For Protection Against Jealous Husbands And Boyfriends". Then I walked away without saying anyting else.