Old Victory gun with BNP ??

[mbliss57]

I also picked up this old victory?? gun with the BNP stamps all over it and crowns stamped into the outside cylinder. It has the altered barrel from 38 S&W to 38 spl but I picked it up anyway as all the SN# match and I believe those are original stocks. The guns is a mess and needs to be cleaned. pics below. I heard this was called the "Oswald Gun".. at any rate I wish it could talk.. british accent of course! No plans to fire her.

 

[sigp220.45]

Its a little better than Oswald's - yours has the front locking lug, at least:

 

[Waidmann]

Birmingham proofhouse (1954 or later) where it was test fired in the .38 S&W (not Special) configuration .767 case length, 3.5 Tonnes is the give away on that. The bob/ream probably happened over here. Cogswell & Harrison and Parker-Hale did many over there. All other aspects (timing and lock-up) okay .38 S&W in current anemic offerings is okay with room to spare.

 

[mbliss57]

pre Victory bob & ream questions..

Ok I still have a couple questions.
The SN is 735531. So it is a 1905 HE 4th change. It main spring is leaf. So this is an I frame or modified I. Unless I am mistaken.. if so someone please correct me. All SN match except the stocks. They are in the 300K series.
My questions are these.
1. When was it originally manufactured by S&W? (Roughly)
2. If they bobbed the barrel from 5" to 3" and reamed to 38 spl then why isn't it stamped 38 Spl anywhere on the barrel?
3. Why bob it at all?
4. My 38 spl casings fit it very well. So it was definitely reamed. I have read several places where firing this in 38 spl is OK and others say not.
Some say the casings will split & others not. Any feedback on this?
Also when they bob the barrel it looks like they cut from the muzzle end back and then re-attach the sight. The sight is not standard if you look closely.
5. Why wouldn't you bob from the chamber end so the muzzle end doesn't have to be messed with? Is it because of the rifling or bore size that has to match up at the breech end?
This is more than a couple questions... hopefully someone(s) will feel compelled to extend their expertise on these things,

 

[murphydog]

Ok I still have a couple questions.
The SN is 735531. So it is a 1905 HE 4th change. It main spring is leaf. So this is an I frame or modified I. Unless I am mistaken.. if so someone please correct me. All SN match except the stocks. They are in the 300K series.
My questions are these.
1. When was it originally manufactured by S&W? (Roughly)
2. If they bobbed the barrel from 5" to 3" and reamed to 38 spl then why isn't it stamped 38 Spl anywhere on the barrel?
3. Why bob it at all?
4. My 38 spl casings fit it very well. So it was definitely reamed. I have read several places where firing this in 38 spl is OK and others say not.
Some say the casings will split & others not. Any feedback on this?
Also when they bob the barrel it looks like they cut from the muzzle end back and then re-attach the sight. The sight is not standard if you look closely.
5. Why wouldn't you bob from the chamber end so the muzzle end doesn't have to be messed with? Is it because of the rifling or bore size that has to match up at the breech end?
This is more than a couple questions... hopefully someone(s) will feel compelled to extend their expertise on these things,

1. You have one of the pre-(US direct involvement in) WW II guns; I think 1940 or '41 would be a good guess. The Military & Police is a K or medium frame, bigger than the ".32" or I frame.
2. Many were stamped .38 Special, and many were not.
3. To make it more convenient to carry, most likely. It originally had a 5" or less likely a 6" barrel, so the shorter barrel may also have been a selling point. Many (like the other one pictured) have the front locking lug cut off.
4. You can still use .38 S & W ammo, or a low-powered .38 Special load and see if the cases split. The latter is of smaller diameter than the chamber, so firing pressures may overexpand and crack the cases.
5. It was easier to shorten the muzzle end of the barrel, instead of cutting a new threaded breech end to fit the frame. There may not be enough metal in the thinner part of the barrel just forward of where it threads into the frame to do it. The barrel shortening takes off the front sight, and usually the old sight was not reattached.

 

[john traveler]

The gun is a "K" frame, as was the M&P model it was derived from.

The barrel was shortened to increase the marketability. Or maybe the muzzle end was damaged. The .38 S&W barrel dimensions are close enough to .38 S&W Special to work for both. The barrel was not shortened from the breech end because it is a lot more work to machine new threads and that end is not thick enough to re-thread.

The cylinder was reamed out to fit the .38 Special cartridge. If the cylinder serial number matches the rest of the gun, you can be sure of that. Also, examination of the chambers in strong backlight will show reamer marks where the chambers were deepened. If the chambers are original .38 Special, it is a replacement cylinder.

The .38 S&W cartridge diameter is several thousandths of an inch larger than the .38 S&W Special. Firing the Special in the reamed out chamers will produce bulged, and probaly split brass. This is not necessarily dangerous but it does ruin the brass for reloading. Also, the WWII era M&P was made of mild, automotive grade steels, and lacks the strength and safety margin of more modern M&P guns. It is not rated for +P ammunition.

 

[mbliss57]

Thanks for the info. I guess I should have caught the K frame instead of I based in the size. I guess I just assumed all these modified "Bob & Ream Jobs" were all I -frames and didn't look at the fact...it is larger than my J frame.