One hand dump

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Mark Pilcher

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How many of you practice a one hand dump of the empties in a revolver while drawing a speedloader/speed strip/loose cartridges with your shooting hand? I've used it for better than 30 years. I modified it somewhat in that I use the heel of my hand on the ejector rod stroke since I might bobble it with my thumb.
 
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I learned from the start and have always used the one hand dump method. I have seen the 2 hand heel of palm used and been told by instructors that it's "more positive under stress". I gave it a try, but didn't think the benefit was worth time lost.

40 plus years of muscle memory have served me well. I've never had a problem one handed. Of course I've never reloaded a revolver under more stress than a timer produces at a match or during a qual.

I always try to give new ideas a chance. Sometimes "the way we've always done it" wins out, sometimes not.
 
I guess I use a one hand dump. I press the release, push the cylinder out with my two middle fingers of my my left hand with the muzzle up pressing the ejector and letting the brass drop while retrieving a speed loader, then I flip the muzzle down making use of gravity and stuff the cylinder with fresh rounds and letting the loader hit the ground.
That was what I was taught and used during firearms instructor school. We had to shoot a minimum score of 540 on the PPC course to be allowed to enter the school. That was 2014. Havnt done much high speed low drag revolver work since then. That's the only method I know.
 
When a LEO and instructor I stressed using one hand to empty the empties...and do it smartly to make sure they all empty away from them...not under their feet. Far to many used the old pumping the ejector rod which not only took extra time but didn't always get the empties out of the cylinder. Then there were a few that would dump the empties into their hand...look at them...and then drop them on the ground.

There were some bad habits that had to be unlearned in those days.
 
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SnidelyWhiplash said:
When a LEO and instructor I stressed using one hand to empty the empties...and do it smartly to make sure they all empty away from them...not under their feet. Far to many used the old pumping the ejector rod which not only took extra time but didn't always get the empties out of the cylinder. Then there were a few that would dump the empties into their hand...look at them...and then drop them on the ground.

There were some bad habits that had to be unlearned in those days.
Click to expand...

Chris Baker at Luckygunner.com has a video on various methods to reload the revolver. The last one he mentions is from Mas Ayoob the "Stressfire Reload". The ProArms Podcast YouTube Channel includes the video of Mas Ayoob himself explaining and demonstrating this reload.

I accepted Ayoob's teaching because I had myself experienced the problems he described in his book, "Stressfire" which I read after having carried a Model 28 Highway Patrolman for many years. I have burnt my hand on the forcing cone though I did not drop the gun. I sometimes could not eject hot .357 magnum cases with my thumb only. With some revolvers it was necessary to pump the ejector because the rod was not long enough. Some guns you had to shake vigorously and twist the cylinder a bit to get the empties out as they would hang on the grips or on that cylinder retaining doohickey stud thingamabob. If you pushed the ejector hard enough then it would jump past the rim of one of the cases and then you were really out of the fight.

Didn't you or your students have these same problems? I have some thoughts of my own, but I'd like for you to be the teacher on this if you would with my thanks!
 
I don't remember anyone have rounds caught under the extractor star…my memory (over 25 years has passed) is officers taking too much time pumping the ejector rather than hitting it with a purpose. We did demonstrate what having a case caught under the extractor.

We never did have enough time devoted to training…management had their heads buried in the sand…the attitude seemed that if the worst never happened before it never would. I tilted at that windmill more than once. When budgets are tight the training budget suffers first.

I would find training opportunities that were no cost to the agency…occasionally we could get someone to attend but more often we couldn't. More than once I would take annual leave to attend such schools.
 
My old hands are too screwed up stiff and sore. I could never do it one handed without pushing the latch and then banging the gun against something to knock it open
 
My thoughts

What I learned was not to shoot 38's in a 357 gun!
The carbon fouling in the cylinder from the shorter case of the 38 is deposited in the chamber right where the expanded 357 case gets stuck. Not only will the cases not come out right but also the new shells don't want to go all the way in, and you can't close the cylinder without pushing them the rest of the way with your thumb. That, I'm a tellin' ya, ain't faster!

I now know a way to clean the carbon fouling of the chambers efficiently and more easily. Anyone who plans to use the FBI reload needs to be careful to do this cleaning after every session. You want the new live rounds to be so loose they fall right out of the cylinder if you tip the gun a little. When you shoot them, the brass will swell to the chamber size, but you can still dump them with just your thumb.

I was shooting some hot 158 grain SWHP loaded with RedDot. I turned up the barrel, swung out the cylinder and brought the web of my left hand hard down on the ejector rod just like Ayoob taught...and that ejector rod did not budge. I am never gonna do that again!

An armed citizen reloading under fire has not happened yet. So let's not be over concerned about this. Thanks to the OP for a good thread!
 
Brian Parrish said:
... from Mas Ayoob the "Stressfire Reload". .. because I had myself experienced the problems he described in his book, "Stressfire" !
Click to expand...

My only change to that technique is the wrap my left-hand around the cylinder tightly before I whack the ejector-rod. It helps to prevent forcing the cylinder over and past the stop-stud at the lower RH corner of the frame window. That can really trip-you-up if you've never experienced it. I think it's less apt to occur on a a modern gun where the stop is a longer, raised shelf in that same spot, rather than the stud.
 
Mark Pilcher said:
How many of you practice a one hand dump of the empties in a revolver while drawing a speedloader/speed strip/loose cartridges with your shooting hand? I've used it for better than 30 years. I modified it somewhat in that I use the heel of my hand on the ejector rod stroke since I might bobble it with my thumb.
Click to expand...
I don't understand this. I can't visualize it.

• a one hand dump of the empties in a revolver while drawing a speedloader/speed strip/loose cartridges with your shooting hand

I visualize that as the revolver held in the non-shooting hand while the shooting hand reaches for the speedloaders.

• I use the heel of my hand on the ejector rod stroke...

This I can't visualize: If the revolver is held by the non-shooting hand, the non-shooting hand's heel can't strike the ejector rod. Meanwhile, the shooting hand is engaged grasping the speedloaders, so no heel of the hand available there

What am I missing?:confused:

To reload with a speedloader, I was taught to

• Place the open cylinder, empty revolver in my non shooting hand with two middle fingers holding bbl open and firmly in place,
• Turn bbl straight up, and strike the ejector rod with the shooting hands heel.
• When empties fall out, non shooting hand turns revolver so it is pointing straight down
• Shooting hand reaches for speedloader, withdraws it, positions it over and into the cylinder, releases cartridges, drops speedloader, grasps grip and rolls cylinder upward and shut in palm of non shooting hand continuing into a two hand grip and back on target.
 
Last edited:
Onomea said:
I don't understand this. I can't visualize it.

• a one hand dump of the empties in a revolver while drawing a speedloader/speed strip/loose cartridges with your shooting hand

I visualize that as the revolver held in the non-shooting hand while the shooting hand reaches for the speedloaders.

• I use the heel of my hand on the ejector rod stroke...

This I can't visualize: If the revolver is held by the non-shooting hand, the non-shooting hand's heel can't strike the ejector rod. Meanwhile, the shooting hand is engaged grasping the speedloaders, so no heel of the hand available there

What am I missing?:confused:

To reload with a speedloader, I was taught to

• Place the open cylinder, empty revolver in my non shooting hand with two middle fingers holding bbl open and firmly in place,
• Turn bbl straight up, and strike the ejector rod with the shooting hands heel.
• When empties fall out, non shooting hand turns revolver so it is pointing straight down
• Shooting hand reaches for speedloader, withdraws it, positions it over and into the cylinder, releases cartridges, drops speedloader, grasps grip and rolls cylinder upward and shut in palm of non shooting hand continuing into a two hand grip and back on target.
Click to expand...

I didn't explain it very well. I turn the gun almost facing away from me, and use the base of my left thumb to depress the ejector rod. More meat to work with.
 
Last edited:
Onomea

Onomea said:
I don't understand this. I can't visualize it.

• a one hand dump of the empties in a revolver while drawing a speedloader/speed strip/loose cartridges with your shooting hand

I visualize that as the revolver held in the non-shooting hand while the shooting hand reaches for the speedloaders.

• I use the heel of my hand on the ejector rod stroke...

This I can't visualize: If the revolver is held by the non-shooting hand, the non-shooting hand's heel can't strike the ejector rod. Meanwhile, the shooting hand is engaged grasping the speedloaders, so no heel of the hand available there

What am I missing?:confused:

To reload with a speedloader, I was taught to

• Place the open cylinder, empty revolver in my non shooting hand with two middle fingers holding bbl open and firmly in place,
• Turn bbl straight up, and strike the ejector rod with the shooting hands heel.
• When empties fall out, non shooting hand turns revolver so it is pointing straight down
• Shooting hand reaches for speedloader, withdraws it, positions it over and into the cylinder, releases cartridges, drops speedloader, grasps grip and rolls cylinder upward and shut in palm of non shooting hand continuing into a two hand grip and back on target.
Click to expand...
He is describing the "FBI Reload". You are describing the "Universal Reload". I am describing the "Stressfire Reload." You might enjoy that LuckyGunner video about this but keep doing like you are doing. There is no need to change as practiced smoothness will more than make up for any speed advantage another technique may have.

The FBI Reload has a modest speed advantage in that the left thumb ejects cases while the right hand goes for the speed loader. This speed advantage appears with a very practiced expert provided the cases don't get stuck and fall away free. If you are shooting a snub revolver which does not have a long enough ejector rod, you may have to give it quite a whack to get them out if the gun is dirty. Reaching over with the heel of the right hand just allows you to use your dominant hand for all the important movements.

Ayoob explains in his book and video the rationale for his reload technique.

Kind regards!
BrianD
 
Mark Pilcher said:
How many of you practice a one hand dump of the empties in a revolver while drawing a speedloader/speed strip/loose cartridges with your shooting hand? I've used it for better than 30 years. I modified it somewhat in that I use the heel of my hand on the ejector rod stroke since I might bobble it with my thumb.
Click to expand...

I can't see how you can do a one-hand cylinder dump using the heel of a hand to strike the extractor rod.. If you're holding the open cylindered gun with the weak hand, you'd have to use the strong hand to hit the extractor. If you use the weak hand to hit the extractor, you're holding the gun with your strong hand.

The practice I use, developed from shooting PPC 45 years ago, is on the last round, the strong thumb pushes the cylinder release as the weak hand takes the revolver in the palm. The middle and ring finger of the weak hand pushes the cylinder open while you bring the gun to waist height about 6-8 inches from your belt buckle, facing up. Your strong palm slams the extractor rod and drives the empties out and immediately reaches for the speed loader in its open tray on your belt just to either side of the belt buckle. Weak hand is rotating the revolver to muzzle down as the strong hand feeds the speed loader into the cylinder' strong hand drops the speed loader and grips the revolver as the weak hand begins to close the cylinder with the thumb and then goes to whatever two-handed grip you prefer. I'm no Jerry M, but I got pretty good reloading that way. I still do it that way but not quite as fast as back then.
 
He's not only amazing with a handgun, but has a dry sense of humor. I'd like to have a cup of coffee with him and just listen.
 
Jerry is awesome. I switch hands like he does, but somehow it doesn't seem even similar. :D

Need to practice my revo speed reloads. I tend to use the bottom feeders a LOT more, so my wheel gun game is weak. Especially after watching JM do his thing.
 
Might I point out that Jerry is using a .45 ACP revolver and moon clips. The pressure of the .45 is about half that of the .357 and the cases are shorter, so a wee bump with the thumb is enough to eject the empties. Not necessarily so with longer, higher pressure cartridges.

We were taught the support hand thumb method of ejecting empites. During qualifications, I once had a hot round or something and when I tried to stroke the extractor/ejector rod it didn't move. My gun hand already had the speedloader in it, so that hand was out of service. Fortunately, this happened at the 25 yard line and I was able to whack the rod on the barricade to clear the empties. Went to the gun hand slap after that to eject the empties.

Yes, my little improvisation was noticed by training staff and I had to explain why I did it.
 
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