One More Lock Thread...With a Twist!
- Thread starter MBaneACP
- Start date
rburg
Member
Want to bet on that? They'd probably respond that its the first incident they've seen of it. Then suggest the gun was somehow doctored with or the ammo was the problem. I'd think we now have an unfavorable government. They probably don't have a "plan B" if they took the lock out. Its a lousy answer to a non-existent problem, but its their answer.
Companies aren't real open or honest when it comes to product defects. Even if they're aware of problems, they don't want to let it be known. Too much potential liability.
Revolver King
Member
Mr. Bane - I just want to say THANK YOU. Video of a lock failure is one of the best things that can bring S&W to their senses. Great work!
I feel like a lot of people (less so on this forum, but more so on others) are missing the point on the internal lock. A lot of people seem to only think "the lock is bad because it can fail." Yes, that is true, but I would still HATE the lock and refuse to by S&W's with locks even if the lock was a perfect, failure proof design.
First, the lock is contrary to safe firearm use and ownership. Now, novice users may rely on the lock rather than "always treating a gun as loaded." Second, if someone wants to lock a gun to prevent unauthorized use, a trigger lock is a far more effective. Again, a novice may use the internal lock only to have an unauthorized user overcome the internal lock with simple tools. It is much harder to defeat a quality aftermarket trigger lock or safe. The conclusion I draw is that the S&W internal lock actually will cause more accidents (or negligent incidents) to occur.
Another PERFECTLY VALID case against the lock is it ruins the AESTHETICS of a work of functional art. I buy and love S&W's because I think they are beautiful pieces of American history. They are indeed tools as well - but not JUST tools - they are more than that to me!
Ok, rant over. I am not trying to hijack this very good thread, I am simply responding to what I perceive is an over emphasis on only the functionality of the lock. After all, if S&W fixed the failure issue but left the ugly key hole, how many of us would be happy? Not me!
I feel like a lot of people (less so on this forum, but more so on others) are missing the point on the internal lock. A lot of people seem to only think "the lock is bad because it can fail." Yes, that is true, but I would still HATE the lock and refuse to by S&W's with locks even if the lock was a perfect, failure proof design.
First, the lock is contrary to safe firearm use and ownership. Now, novice users may rely on the lock rather than "always treating a gun as loaded." Second, if someone wants to lock a gun to prevent unauthorized use, a trigger lock is a far more effective. Again, a novice may use the internal lock only to have an unauthorized user overcome the internal lock with simple tools. It is much harder to defeat a quality aftermarket trigger lock or safe. The conclusion I draw is that the S&W internal lock actually will cause more accidents (or negligent incidents) to occur.
Another PERFECTLY VALID case against the lock is it ruins the AESTHETICS of a work of functional art. I buy and love S&W's because I think they are beautiful pieces of American history. They are indeed tools as well - but not JUST tools - they are more than that to me!
Ok, rant over. I am not trying to hijack this very good thread, I am simply responding to what I perceive is an over emphasis on only the functionality of the lock. After all, if S&W fixed the failure issue but left the ugly key hole, how many of us would be happy? Not me!
I would like to think that it will make a difference, but I am not hopeful. It is nice to have it proven and documented though.
There is no doubt in my mind that the lock constitutes a design defect, but if they change it now they are admitting the fact and would have to do something about it. I don't think they have the money to recall every revolver with a lock and I don't think they have an alternative design.
I think they will just ignore the problem on the theory that if someone is killed by a criminal because their S&W revolver failed they can say that they were killed by the criminal and that the defect in the victims gun was secondary and they can weasel out of it with a settlement if they have to for less than a recall.
I wish corporations had a moral sense instead of an income statement.
There is no doubt in my mind that the lock constitutes a design defect, but if they change it now they are admitting the fact and would have to do something about it. I don't think they have the money to recall every revolver with a lock and I don't think they have an alternative design.
I think they will just ignore the problem on the theory that if someone is killed by a criminal because their S&W revolver failed they can say that they were killed by the criminal and that the defect in the victims gun was secondary and they can weasel out of it with a settlement if they have to for less than a recall.
I wish corporations had a moral sense instead of an income statement.
Bullseye Smith
Member
+1
I would be willing to bet that they are VERY aware of how unpopular the IL is and that they have 'war-gamed' how to implement plans B, C, D, and E. Nevertheless, it would be difficult to say the least to put that genie back into the bottle in today's world of product liability (hopefully not impossible).
Thanks, Mr. Bane for bringing this to forefront (sorry about your gun). BTW, this second season of Best Defense is awesome! I like the approach.
panamajack310
Member
What they should do is offer no lock gun but sell the lock models to those who wanted them or those states like CA,NY,MA,MD that have restrictive gun laws.
pinkymingeo
Member
Complaining about the lock on operational grounds is nonsense. It can be deactivated in minutes, never to trouble you again. Hate it for other reasons, but disable it and quit worrying about self-engagement. What is, to me, incredible is that S&W refuses to sell replacement lock flags. A few years ago, before that was the policy, I bought a few spares and removed the locking nubs. When I buy a IL revolver I switch the stock flag for one that's been doctored, and the patient is cured. I restore the gun to stock configuration when I sell it or ship it to S&W for work. The factory should be happy to sell the flags to those who otherwise won't buy a new revolver. Go figure.
Bullseye Smith
Member
snakeman32
US Veteran
I am new to buying S&W revolvers. I do not own one with a lock and I never will. I like Remington firearms as well but I will not buy one with that stupid J lock on them. Unless S&W gets rid of the lock like Remington did, I will continue to buy used revolvers without the lock.
snakeman
snakeman
So where's the video ...???
I am looking at purchasing one of these the 2.5 inch edition - and I am more than interested in seeing this video for obvious reasons...Other than that how do you like the revolver overall, recoil, accuracy, - thx
I am looking at purchasing one of these the 2.5 inch edition - and I am more than interested in seeing this video for obvious reasons...Other than that how do you like the revolver overall, recoil, accuracy, - thx
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Stonecove
Member
I would be interested to hear the "rest of the story". Did the film ever make it to the TV show? I usually watch and I haven't seen it.
Thanks,
Stonecove
Thanks,
Stonecove
DrewW
Member
He did say that they were filming it for the 2010 season so he may not be able to show the video until after the episode airs which will be sometime next year I would assume.
DJINCO
US Veteran
Folks,
All S&W will do is blame the ammo. They will add a line to the manual that says "do not use xxxx ammunition in this gun."
All S&W will do is blame the ammo. They will add a line to the manual that says "do not use xxxx ammunition in this gun."
photoman
Member
Original post was 9 July and no new information? What's up?
DonD
Member
It still interests me that most, if not all of the lock issues have been limited to the 12 oz scandium alloy .357s and the light guns like the 329. While they certainly have violent recoil, I'd think that very heavy loads in the .500 Mags would induce the same failures but that does not appear to be the case. Don
