Open Carry?
- Thread starter Roan Ranger
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keith44spl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl
I'm not from Missouri...But show me the hard facts...Not jest an opinion.
Well Phil,
We both know that the fear of the unknown and or unfamiliar causes anxiety to some degree.
Those acts that we are unaccustomed to may be disturbing and unsettling to say the least.
Kinda like one time I was in this here restaurant, some young folks all dressed in black, hair dyed to match and
some foreign object protruding from their facial features,
although I think one had a diaper pin run through his cheek right below the eye, were seat'd near.
The one facing me, would shovel a big spoon of chili in his mouth just to let it dribble back out into his bowl and
more times than not, on to the diner's table and floor.
I don't think any of them were open carrying, so no one in the diner was upset.
As disturbing as I found that dining experience to be,
I turned my head and enjoyed my meal just the same.
So, I said all that to say this, when one is in the public expect anything.
If one witnesses a unlawful act, report it to the authorities.
If one witnesses a lawful action, even if one does not approve......Folks ought to look the other way
Tell me, is narcissism treatable?
Su Amigo,
Dave
And thank you for your support!
.
Originally Posted by keith44spl
I'm not from Missouri...But show me the hard facts...Not jest an opinion.
The argument hasn't been entirely void of fact. Some people do suffer an irrational fear at the mere sight of anyone not in uniform carrying a gun (other than themselves in a mirror.... maybe). Hoplophobia is indeed real. So is acrophobia. Just because someone can build a tall building doesn't mean they should. Idiots!
Well Phil,
We both know that the fear of the unknown and or unfamiliar causes anxiety to some degree.
Those acts that we are unaccustomed to may be disturbing and unsettling to say the least.
Kinda like one time I was in this here restaurant, some young folks all dressed in black, hair dyed to match and
some foreign object protruding from their facial features,
although I think one had a diaper pin run through his cheek right below the eye, were seat'd near.
The one facing me, would shovel a big spoon of chili in his mouth just to let it dribble back out into his bowl and
more times than not, on to the diner's table and floor.
I don't think any of them were open carrying, so no one in the diner was upset.
As disturbing as I found that dining experience to be,
I turned my head and enjoyed my meal just the same.
So, I said all that to say this, when one is in the public expect anything.
If one witnesses a unlawful act, report it to the authorities.
If one witnesses a lawful action, even if one does not approve......Folks ought to look the other way
Tell me, is narcissism treatable?
Su Amigo,
Dave
And thank you for your support!
.
jlrhiner
US Veteran
I'm sorry, I got confused. Which side am I on?
carpriver
US Veteran
Michigan does not have a law that prohibits open carry. So if you want to carry a hand gun out in the open there is no law to prevent it. the rules for carrying open are almost the same as concealed carry. If carrying open while hiking you run into the problem of being sighted by the DNR for hunting out of season. But if concealed carrying you do have to inform the officer you are carrying.
A couple weeks ago I was shopping with my wife at Wal Mart I saw a man open carrying. it was a black plastic semi auto in a black nylon holster. I noticed only because I look for things that are out of the ordinary. Most people don't even notice when someone is open carrying.
I really don't think most people notice when someone is open carrying.
What gets my goat (besides a 6ft piece of rope) is those guys who open carry a long gun, that does the anti gun people a favor by showing we are not using our head.
A couple weeks ago I was shopping with my wife at Wal Mart I saw a man open carrying. it was a black plastic semi auto in a black nylon holster. I noticed only because I look for things that are out of the ordinary. Most people don't even notice when someone is open carrying.
I really don't think most people notice when someone is open carrying.
What gets my goat (besides a 6ft piece of rope) is those guys who open carry a long gun, that does the anti gun people a favor by showing we are not using our head.
44 special Dave
Member
Ok, I haven't read every response in this thread. But my posting is timely considering someone just mentioned Michigan.
Well I just had lunch with my son who's a prosecuting attorney and works for a big law firm in Macomb County Michigan.
His firm does work for many local municipalities.
Any way, there was an open carry incident earlier this year were 2 young fellas carrying handguns and assault type rifles were walking down a busy street (19 mile road in Macomb county for you locals). They were stopped in front of a large hospital complex. Anyway after the police stopped them and detained them, asked for ID they were sent on their way. 20 minutes total 8 minutes detained in handcuffs.
As the police figured, they sued the local muny.
Well my son told me today, they got a ruling from federal district court in favor of the municipality.
The cool thing for me, my son wrote the motion for summary judgment in the case. Kind of of a proud moment for me, regardless of what side of the issue.
The judge's opinion starts off very interesting.
If interested if you google Judge Cleland open carry decision Michigan, I'm sure you'll find it. He said the ruling came down last week.
Dave
Well I just had lunch with my son who's a prosecuting attorney and works for a big law firm in Macomb County Michigan.
His firm does work for many local municipalities.
Any way, there was an open carry incident earlier this year were 2 young fellas carrying handguns and assault type rifles were walking down a busy street (19 mile road in Macomb county for you locals). They were stopped in front of a large hospital complex. Anyway after the police stopped them and detained them, asked for ID they were sent on their way. 20 minutes total 8 minutes detained in handcuffs.
As the police figured, they sued the local muny.
Well my son told me today, they got a ruling from federal district court in favor of the municipality.
The cool thing for me, my son wrote the motion for summary judgment in the case. Kind of of a proud moment for me, regardless of what side of the issue.
The judge's opinion starts off very interesting.
If interested if you google Judge Cleland open carry decision Michigan, I'm sure you'll find it. He said the ruling came down last week.
Dave
Great!
Bless your heart, Judge Cleland.
Thank you.
Be safe.
QUOTE=44 special Dave;138079171]Ok, I haven't read every response in this thread. But my posting is timely considering someone just mentioned Michigan.
Well I just had lunch with my son who's a prosecuting attorney and works for a big law firm in Macomb County Michigan.
His firm does work for many local municipalities.
Any way, there was an open carry incident earlier this year were 2 young fellas carrying handguns and assault type rifles were walking down a busy street (19 mile road in Macomb county for you locals). They were stopped in front of a large hospital complex. Anyway after the police stopped them and detained them, asked for ID they were sent on their way. 20 minutes total 8 minutes detained in handcuffs.
As the police figured, they sued the local muny.
Well my son told me today, they got a ruling from federal district court in favor of the municipality.
The cool thing for me, my son wrote the motion for summary judgment in the case. Kind of of a proud moment for me, regardless of what side of the issue.
The judge's opinion starts off very interesting.
If interested if you google Judge Cleland open carry decision Michigan, I'm sure you'll find it. He said the ruling came down last week.
Dave[/QUOTE]
Bless your heart, Judge Cleland.
Thank you. Be safe.
QUOTE=44 special Dave;138079171]Ok, I haven't read every response in this thread. But my posting is timely considering someone just mentioned Michigan.
Well I just had lunch with my son who's a prosecuting attorney and works for a big law firm in Macomb County Michigan.
His firm does work for many local municipalities.
Any way, there was an open carry incident earlier this year were 2 young fellas carrying handguns and assault type rifles were walking down a busy street (19 mile road in Macomb county for you locals). They were stopped in front of a large hospital complex. Anyway after the police stopped them and detained them, asked for ID they were sent on their way. 20 minutes total 8 minutes detained in handcuffs.
As the police figured, they sued the local muny.
Well my son told me today, they got a ruling from federal district court in favor of the municipality.
The cool thing for me, my son wrote the motion for summary judgment in the case. Kind of of a proud moment for me, regardless of what side of the issue.
The judge's opinion starts off very interesting.
If interested if you google Judge Cleland open carry decision Michigan, I'm sure you'll find it. He said the ruling came down last week.
Dave[/QUOTE]
Faulkner
Member
Just because you have the right to do something does not mean it's always the right thing to do.
Sagging britches and open carry come to mind.
Sagging britches and open carry come to mind.
Springfeildkid585
Member
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Any state. Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act.
Springfeildkid585
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This debate will never really have an end. I contest that in some situations OC is a deterrent, and sometimes it paints a target on your back. I will say that I usually conceal, but my OC rig is more comfortable and I can draw faster, so when I'm in the boonies, or driving more than an hour, I OC. Just a few weeks ago I stopped off in a gas station to use the facilities. A man in biker leathers was walking into the store as I was coming out of the restroom. His eyes went wide and he said "Good morning sir, how are you?" I replied in kind with a smile thinking it odd but glad to see a biker defying the stereotype... and then I noticed his 1% patch. I didn't say anything, and went about my business walking over to a shelf to procure some bottled water. He was gone by the time I looked up. The guy at the counter had a big ol' smirk when I came up to pay. It was about 10 minutes later when I realized I was wearing my Indianapolis Police Foundation t-shirt (Not an LEO yet, but it's in honor of a fallen officer and I like the statement on the back)and my .45 was visible.
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I have spent the last hour or so reading as many of these post as I can. This is a very interesting subject, and everyone has an opinion on it, and most have made very good points. There has also been some facts stated as well. I enjoy reading all these comments.
I would like, for my first post on this forum, to just state a few observations on this subject. First, I think, I should try to state just what the debate is about.
The best I can tell, the debate is along the lines of - Is open carrying a firearm (handgun) going to deter crimes or is it going to get you shot? I keep up with the news quite a bit and cannot recall ever reading a story where a criminal shot a person because they were open carrying a handgun. Yes, some places like banks and jewelery stores get robbed occasionally, but the reason that the guards, who may be open carrying a handgun get shot, is because they are in the way of a big hall. Banks have a lot of money, jewelery stores very valuable items worth a lot of money. Criminals will do most anything to get their hands on that kind of money, and going through the guards is usually the only way to get it, or try to. These criminals, if the guards are preventing them from getting their loot, or getting away, may be shot regardless of if they are open carrying or not.
I can say, with certainty, that these armed guards are not shot because they have visible guns, they are shot because it is the only way to get to the money, or to get away without being shot. If these places did not have armed guards these places would be robbed a great deal more. I think we can be pretty certain about that. I believe we can be certain that the owners of these kinds of places have guards, openly armed, because they are the best deterrent they have for robbers. Bodyguards sometimes get shot and they usually carry concealed. We do not know how many crimes were prevented because these guards are armed, but the pretty much agreed belief is that they do prevent robberies. If they didn't, banks would not spend the money to employ them. It is impossible to prove a negative, so we have no way to know just how many robbers were deterred because of these openly armed guards.
I would like to try to phrase this debate a little differently. I believe that people who open carry as well as people who concealed carry, do so to protect themselves, their loved ones, other people, and their property. I think that we all, well most all of us, should be able to agree on that. Now, one can say that SOME people might open carry because of ego, but to lump ALL people into that category is simply wrong. The vast majority of people who open carry do so, I believe, because they firmly believe that it will provide the best protection they can for themselves and their loved ones. There are always exceptions, regardless of what subject you are dealing with. Exceptions should not be used to lump people into one group. And, people should not be called "scumbags" and "dweebs" simply because they carry their weapons in the way THEY believe will most likely protect them and their loved ones. One who makes these kinds of statements about an entire group of people usually either have little clue what they are talking about, or have some other agenda. A person who is happy with, and confident in the way they carry, and practiced with it, ARE more likely to be able to save lives. This is just common sense, and is fact based.
Back to rephrasing this discussion. It seems to me that the difference between OC people and CC people is the way they are trying to accomplish their goal, as previously stated. What I mean by that is this.
A person who is CCing is mostly planning to be able to deal with a crime as it is happening. One who open carries is trying to prevent the crime from happening in the first place (but of course, can also deal with one in progress). These are two different goals, or probably better said, two different ways to accomplish the same goal. Again, I am NOT talking in absolutes. A CCer could certainly prevent a crime from happening under the right circumstances, and a OCer could deal with one in progress. But generally speaking, the CCer is looking to deal with a crime in progress and and OCer is trying (really believes he/she can) prevent a crime in the first place.
Finally, I don't know if all this makes sense to anybody, but this seems to me anyway to be generally how the two are approaching self defense. People are different. So it stands to reason that they will react to seeing a gun on someones side differently. Some will see it and then go about their business with little thought about it. Some will not even notice it. Some will freak out. And, yes some, such as "moms against the second amendment" may call the police to cause trouble, and possibly get the OCer shot by the police. This IS a fairly good possibility, at least until the police get used to this tactic. I would say this is probably the most likely way an OCer might get shot. Criminals WILL stay as far away as they can from someone who is openly armed, with of course some exceptions. There are always exceptions, but the world is a dangerous place. A pickpocket walking in a mall looking for the biggest purse to snatch, is NOT going to pick the women walking with an openly armed man, or a women who is opening armed for that matter, but will instead pick one of the many unarmed victims to steal from. This is just common sense, and I could give probably a hundred examples where this would be the case, but will not take up any more time as this post is rather long.
Thanks to all who read this with consideration. This looks to be a great forum! Sorry for the long post.
Omegaman69
I would like, for my first post on this forum, to just state a few observations on this subject. First, I think, I should try to state just what the debate is about.
The best I can tell, the debate is along the lines of - Is open carrying a firearm (handgun) going to deter crimes or is it going to get you shot? I keep up with the news quite a bit and cannot recall ever reading a story where a criminal shot a person because they were open carrying a handgun. Yes, some places like banks and jewelery stores get robbed occasionally, but the reason that the guards, who may be open carrying a handgun get shot, is because they are in the way of a big hall. Banks have a lot of money, jewelery stores very valuable items worth a lot of money. Criminals will do most anything to get their hands on that kind of money, and going through the guards is usually the only way to get it, or try to. These criminals, if the guards are preventing them from getting their loot, or getting away, may be shot regardless of if they are open carrying or not.
I can say, with certainty, that these armed guards are not shot because they have visible guns, they are shot because it is the only way to get to the money, or to get away without being shot. If these places did not have armed guards these places would be robbed a great deal more. I think we can be pretty certain about that. I believe we can be certain that the owners of these kinds of places have guards, openly armed, because they are the best deterrent they have for robbers. Bodyguards sometimes get shot and they usually carry concealed. We do not know how many crimes were prevented because these guards are armed, but the pretty much agreed belief is that they do prevent robberies. If they didn't, banks would not spend the money to employ them. It is impossible to prove a negative, so we have no way to know just how many robbers were deterred because of these openly armed guards.
I would like to try to phrase this debate a little differently. I believe that people who open carry as well as people who concealed carry, do so to protect themselves, their loved ones, other people, and their property. I think that we all, well most all of us, should be able to agree on that. Now, one can say that SOME people might open carry because of ego, but to lump ALL people into that category is simply wrong. The vast majority of people who open carry do so, I believe, because they firmly believe that it will provide the best protection they can for themselves and their loved ones. There are always exceptions, regardless of what subject you are dealing with. Exceptions should not be used to lump people into one group. And, people should not be called "scumbags" and "dweebs" simply because they carry their weapons in the way THEY believe will most likely protect them and their loved ones. One who makes these kinds of statements about an entire group of people usually either have little clue what they are talking about, or have some other agenda. A person who is happy with, and confident in the way they carry, and practiced with it, ARE more likely to be able to save lives. This is just common sense, and is fact based.
Back to rephrasing this discussion. It seems to me that the difference between OC people and CC people is the way they are trying to accomplish their goal, as previously stated. What I mean by that is this.
A person who is CCing is mostly planning to be able to deal with a crime as it is happening. One who open carries is trying to prevent the crime from happening in the first place (but of course, can also deal with one in progress). These are two different goals, or probably better said, two different ways to accomplish the same goal. Again, I am NOT talking in absolutes. A CCer could certainly prevent a crime from happening under the right circumstances, and a OCer could deal with one in progress. But generally speaking, the CCer is looking to deal with a crime in progress and and OCer is trying (really believes he/she can) prevent a crime in the first place.
Finally, I don't know if all this makes sense to anybody, but this seems to me anyway to be generally how the two are approaching self defense. People are different. So it stands to reason that they will react to seeing a gun on someones side differently. Some will see it and then go about their business with little thought about it. Some will not even notice it. Some will freak out. And, yes some, such as "moms against the second amendment" may call the police to cause trouble, and possibly get the OCer shot by the police. This IS a fairly good possibility, at least until the police get used to this tactic. I would say this is probably the most likely way an OCer might get shot. Criminals WILL stay as far away as they can from someone who is openly armed, with of course some exceptions. There are always exceptions, but the world is a dangerous place. A pickpocket walking in a mall looking for the biggest purse to snatch, is NOT going to pick the women walking with an openly armed man, or a women who is opening armed for that matter, but will instead pick one of the many unarmed victims to steal from. This is just common sense, and I could give probably a hundred examples where this would be the case, but will not take up any more time as this post is rather long.
Thanks to all who read this with consideration. This looks to be a great forum! Sorry for the long post.
Omegaman69
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keith44spl
Member
I'm sorry, I got confused. Which side am I on?
Jim,
I'm right thar with ya!
If I open carry an N frame revolver and conceal carry a J frame at the same time....
Am I right or wrong or sumwheres in the middle?
Life sure can get complicated around these here parts
Su Amigo,
Dave
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Jim,
I'm right thar with ya!
If I open carry an N frame revolver and conceal carry a J frame at the same time....
Am I right or wrong or sumwheres in the middle?
Life sure can get complicated around these here parts
Su Amigo,
Dave
Dave, thanks for the reply. I really don't think there is really a right or a wrong. I think whatever the individual believes is the best way to carry his/her gun (guns), is confident in it, trained in it, and has considered the circumstances in which they are in (where, time of day or night, how many people, what kind of people, how much crime in the area, etc.) is probably the best decision for him/her. Carrying a backup gun is a good idea.
However, those who are strongly against open carry would likely call you something not very nice. Things do get complicated, more so as each day goes by in this day and age.
What about someone who carries their weapon concealed (the gun is not visible), but a bulge can be seen by some people who look closely? Is this safe, or unsafe? Is there any advantage to this? One might do this because they want to carry a full size pistol and wear regular attire. Maybe they want it concealed so as not to (maybe) freak people out, but still want them to suspect they are armed (something similar to the open carry crowd). This is getting more complicated once again.
I think though, you have it covered!
Omegaman69
keith44spl
Member
Yup,
They call me out sometimes..........
I'm old and cranky and don't put up with any guff.
The Story,
I was on a protective detail for a visiting Judge during a purty intense murder trial.
(had a bomb threat at the beginning and fired cartridge case scattered along the
sidewalk in front of the court house toward the end).
Anyways, one particular day I was sans jacket, my holstered service sidearm was exposed for all the world to see.
I was seated next to the visiting Judge in the gallery when I noticed she was
looking at my ankle holster, as my pant leg had ridden up a bit.
She politely asked how may firearms I had on me, I answered
one for me and one for her...if everything were to go south.
Her reply as, "I think I'll carry my pistol tomorrow!"
In closing, the Commonwealth recognizes both open carry and
concealed carry (with a CCDW Licenses) and most folks do.
No problems to report.
Dave
kbm6893
Member
There is no data to suggest that criminals avoid those who are openly armed because if they don't commit the crime, then how would anybody know they considered the victim and moved on? Is there some criminal forum on the web I don't know about?
People's reasons for open carry are usually one of four. Either "I can so I'm gonna" which is simply to make a statement, "it's more comfortable". Ok, that seems reasonable, although putting your t-shirt over it does not make it any less comfortable, and "I'm faster getting the gun out" which makes zero sense to me. Are we going to have a showdown at high noon? Is the half a second longer it takes to move your garment out of the way going to matter? Or "everybody OC's where I live". If that's the case, good for you. Sounds like a nice place to live. I'd probably walk around with my gun displayed if it was so common.
As for the argument that OC lowers crime, there is simply no data to prove that. Too many factors. Population. Socio-economic status of the area, etc. so you can't compare a middle class town in Montana with Washington, D.C. And look at some of these towns in the south with high crime and open carry. I don't blame the crime stats on open carry. You really think crime would go down if OC was passed in Chicago? Think the gang bangers would be dissuaded from shooting somebody because he had a displayed weapon?
As for the "banks and jewelry stores have large hauls so shooting the guard is worth it", I can assure you that is a total myth. As a retired cop, I have seen entirely too many times where a robbery victim is killed when he offered no resistance and was giving up the goods. Two time losers committing their third felony have nothing to lose by killing the victim. Life in prison either way, so why leave a living witness? Also, they genuinely believe they're gonna get away with it. Your average street thug has the IQ of a rock. Most homicides are solved in this country. And let's not even talk about the junkies who are so desperate for a fix that they will shoot you for the change you have in your pocket. Pharmacy robberies and murders are on the rise. Last year, a cop was killed for pulling over a parolee who left the scene of an accident. This guy killed the cop, then executed a man who had pulled over to talk on his cell phone so he could take his car. Didn't even blink. Why would he? He's going to prison for life whether it's one dead cop or 10 dead civilians. His only offense was leaving the scene of an accident with no injuries. Not even a misdemeanor in NY and probably wouldn't even have violated his parole.
I'm not naive enough to think that IF I excerised my right to OC in my state that I would be a deterrent to crime. Those who do need a reality check. I carry my LC9 in my front pocket in a pocket holster. Nobody knows I'm armed. In the unlikely event of a robbery, I have a chance, cause my wallet ain't gonna be what I pull out when you demand it.
Finally, if you do it to "make a statement", you're an idiot who should be shunned. You should have something better to do with your life than be a walking billboard. Work, school, family. Who are these losers who stage a protest with guns strapped to their backs and thighs? They think they're helping the gun culture? Most of my family and friends are pretty neutral when it comes to guns. They don't think about them one way or the other. My sister in law is a die hard anti-gunner, but she's the only one. But when they see these idiots marching to Rallies with assault rifles, or staging a protest outside a target, or when some dumb soccer mom removes a light jacket to reveal her pistol at a field full of children , they say the same thing I do "what is wrong with these people?"
People's reasons for open carry are usually one of four. Either "I can so I'm gonna" which is simply to make a statement, "it's more comfortable". Ok, that seems reasonable, although putting your t-shirt over it does not make it any less comfortable, and "I'm faster getting the gun out" which makes zero sense to me. Are we going to have a showdown at high noon? Is the half a second longer it takes to move your garment out of the way going to matter? Or "everybody OC's where I live". If that's the case, good for you. Sounds like a nice place to live. I'd probably walk around with my gun displayed if it was so common.
As for the argument that OC lowers crime, there is simply no data to prove that. Too many factors. Population. Socio-economic status of the area, etc. so you can't compare a middle class town in Montana with Washington, D.C. And look at some of these towns in the south with high crime and open carry. I don't blame the crime stats on open carry. You really think crime would go down if OC was passed in Chicago? Think the gang bangers would be dissuaded from shooting somebody because he had a displayed weapon?
As for the "banks and jewelry stores have large hauls so shooting the guard is worth it", I can assure you that is a total myth. As a retired cop, I have seen entirely too many times where a robbery victim is killed when he offered no resistance and was giving up the goods. Two time losers committing their third felony have nothing to lose by killing the victim. Life in prison either way, so why leave a living witness? Also, they genuinely believe they're gonna get away with it. Your average street thug has the IQ of a rock. Most homicides are solved in this country. And let's not even talk about the junkies who are so desperate for a fix that they will shoot you for the change you have in your pocket. Pharmacy robberies and murders are on the rise. Last year, a cop was killed for pulling over a parolee who left the scene of an accident. This guy killed the cop, then executed a man who had pulled over to talk on his cell phone so he could take his car. Didn't even blink. Why would he? He's going to prison for life whether it's one dead cop or 10 dead civilians. His only offense was leaving the scene of an accident with no injuries. Not even a misdemeanor in NY and probably wouldn't even have violated his parole.
I'm not naive enough to think that IF I excerised my right to OC in my state that I would be a deterrent to crime. Those who do need a reality check. I carry my LC9 in my front pocket in a pocket holster. Nobody knows I'm armed. In the unlikely event of a robbery, I have a chance, cause my wallet ain't gonna be what I pull out when you demand it.
Finally, if you do it to "make a statement", you're an idiot who should be shunned. You should have something better to do with your life than be a walking billboard. Work, school, family. Who are these losers who stage a protest with guns strapped to their backs and thighs? They think they're helping the gun culture? Most of my family and friends are pretty neutral when it comes to guns. They don't think about them one way or the other. My sister in law is a die hard anti-gunner, but she's the only one. But when they see these idiots marching to Rallies with assault rifles, or staging a protest outside a target, or when some dumb soccer mom removes a light jacket to reveal her pistol at a field full of children , they say the same thing I do "what is wrong with these people?"
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Protected One
Member
A friend told me a story about something that happened to him.
He asked a neighbor if he could borrow his ax, as he had a fallen tree in his yard and wanted to piece it up.
The neighbor said "I can't lend you my ax because I have to make soup". My friend asked what did his ax have to do with making soup. The neighbor replied - "It really don't have anything to do with it but if I don't want to lend you my ax, one excuse is just as good as another".
It pays to keep that in mind when talking to people who want to OC in heavily populated areas. It doesn't matter what rational/reasonable/logical case can be made against it because they will come up with a reason...and it will probably involve soup.
He asked a neighbor if he could borrow his ax, as he had a fallen tree in his yard and wanted to piece it up.
The neighbor said "I can't lend you my ax because I have to make soup". My friend asked what did his ax have to do with making soup. The neighbor replied - "It really don't have anything to do with it but if I don't want to lend you my ax, one excuse is just as good as another".
It pays to keep that in mind when talking to people who want to OC in heavily populated areas. It doesn't matter what rational/reasonable/logical case can be made against it because they will come up with a reason...and it will probably involve soup.
george minze
Member
319 post. Anybody changed their mind yet?? I'll bet no one has changed their mind or anybody else s.....However a lot of good arguments. for and against. I'll do what I think is right and I'll bet everybody else will too. Made for interesting reading.........God Bless ....Remember we are all basically on the same side....
I'm pretty sure the only "side" we're all on is that of owners of Smith and Wesson firearms. Past that, it's a crapshoot . . .
kbm6893
Member
NO, but doesn't stop some from repeating ad nauseum the same garbage.
"I live in an OC state and never see it"
"OCer's have ego issues"
"OCer's have inadequacy problems"
"They're idiots"
"I'm an NRA member, so listen to me"
etc etc etc etc
Just cause you can post doesn't mean you should.
kbm6893
Member
I've changed my mind about quite a few things in my life. Always open to change if I can see the benefit. And the lame "I can because it's my right", and ""it's more comfortable", and "I'm a deterrent to crime" excuses just don't cut it for me. I can sure see the benefit walking through the woods or desert of open carry. Walking into Walmart? I don't see it. And if somebody manages to give me a good reason, I'll put the LC9 back in the safe and strap on my Beretta 92 or S&W 6906 in a pancake holster and go about my day.
As for the youtube morons with the AR's (and I am quite sure a few members of this large forum either HAVE done something like that ot at the very least APPROVE of those who do), their lives must be very empty if that's what they choose to spend their time on. I'll bet most of them live in their parent's basement, or shall I say "command center"?
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