Open Carry?

[kbm6893]

Dorky looking punks walking into coffee shops and Wally World carrying their trashy AK's slung across their chests do not help anything ---but alarm those looking for more excuses to come up with restrictive useless gun laws.

They are not helping matters.

Absolutely. I like your screen name. Dirty Harry "did I fire 5 or 6" scene. Classic!

 

[ladder13]

Also, I've seen "gun forum" people proclaim "there's no sporting purpose for assault weapons, all they're good for is killing people" and "ordinary people don't need clips that hold more than 10 bullets." (Because apparently the correct text of the 2A is "the right to hunt wildlife, punch paper targets, and shoot clay pigeons shall not be infringed," but I digress...) So, does this mean that we should validate their points simply because they frequent gun boards? Just another thing to think about.

Good point. And they all lead off with "I'm a strong supporter of the 2nd A and NRA member", sounding like Bloomberg and Schumer (who claim to support the 2nd A) amongst others.

AND some use the anti-gunners argument about their "right to feel safe and secure". Isn't that what the Feds used to pass the Patriot Act? I know in NY a Fed judge used that argument to uphold a ban on 10+ rd magazines and so-called assault weapons. The most oft-used phrase by anti-gunners, for sure, straight out of their book. I've heard many politicians use that phrase as they strip us of our rights. That, and "it's for the children". ALWAYS used like they're doing us a favor, but the exact opposite.
Your "right to an assault weapon doesn't trump my right to feel safe and secure". Sound familiar?
Cameras on the streets, stop and frisk, listening to phone calls, reading emails, violating the Constitution, GPS tracking, etc etc, all to make us "safe and secure". Then why is the world becoming more violent? Maybe more infringements are the answer.

 

[kbm6893]

Let's see if I'm following this correctly... The major beef with OC is that it creates a perceived waste of public resources whenever a "concerned citizen" phones in a "man with a gun" and the officer dutifully responds when he could be answering other calls, right?

OC in major metropolitan areas is arguably an idea whose time may not yet have come, but it's not because history has shown that private citizens will run amok with firearms whenever they're allowed to openly carry them in public. Rather, it's because the public has been brainwashed into thinking that "guns are bad" unless they're in the hands of "authority." (I'd use the term "mentally conditioned," but that would be understating the reality of things a bit.) I'm not trying to diminish your point, I'm just giving you something to think about.

Insofar as less populated areas are concerned, I tend to regard OC contentions as nothing more than a tempest in a teapot. I wouldn't say OC is "common" in my area, but the few times I have witnessed it, the individuals in question didn't strike me as being boorish grandstanders. Their actions didn't draw the attention of the local constabulary, nor did they elicit panicked gasps or screams of shock from other pedestrians. Truth be told, no one really seemed to pay much mind to it, but then again I've learned over the years that most of the folks in my region of PA tend to have conservative or libertarian mindsets.

I will have to disagree with you on one thing, though. None of the people who've contibuted to this thread have given me the impression that they're defending the actions of YouTube attention-mongers. I myself try to be careful who I hitch my wagon to, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that I don't agree with those YouTube activists either. In fact, some of the very videos you speak of actually make me cringe. Aside from being general arse hats, however, they're also not doing anything illegal, and I refuse to fall into the "moral outrage" trap and petition my congress critters and local officials to "do something" about these guys. Yes, I know that Joe Public doesn't think the same way I do, but when has anybody been better off after our civil rights have been emasculated for the sake of "a few extremists"?

Also, I've seen "gun forum" people proclaim "there's no sporting purpose for assault weapons, all they're good for is killing people" and "ordinary people don't need clips that hold more than 10 bullets." (Because apparently the correct text of the 2A is "the right to hunt wildlife, punch paper targets, and shoot clay pigeons shall not be infringed," but I digress...) So, does this mean that we should validate their points simply because they frequent gun boards? Just another thing to think about.

Oh, and for the record, I carry concealed 95% of the time. The other 5%, I OC only when I'm riding my bicycle or walking in rural areas for convenience's sake.

No. My major beef with OC (and others here) is that in MY experience with it, the person doing it is doing it "cause he can" and not "cause he should". I know that sentiment isn't shared by all, but we live in different areas where different behavior is normal. I've said time and time again that if you live in an area where it is normal, then go for it. I can recall maybe 5 times I have seen OC and it's legal here.

So if you're gonna choose to walk around with a displayed weapon, and your main reason for doing it is "this is my right" and you KNOW it is going to raise eyebrows, then you aren't really any different than the AR fools on YouTube. If you're just OC'ing because you prefer that mode of carry for some reason, (in public, of course. Even my anti-gun sister in law sees nothing wrong with me carrying when I walk the woods) then you have to accept the good with the bad. You're right to OC doesn't trump my right to feel safe and secure in my surroundings. I remember some protest where a bunch of guys went to a restaurant with pistols on their hips. The other patrons were alarmed and somebody called the cops. The patrons made a big stink. It was a planned event to "raise awareness". Did those guys ever stop to think about the patrons whose meal was disrupted? Or the revenue the restaurant might have lost? Did they care? Of course not. And how did it help gun owners?

 

[ladder13]

Don't be a FUDD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XatVKj9DD3I

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The man in the FUDD vid well characterizes the ignorance of some gun owners. They are particularly useful to anti-gun zealots who exploit their lifelong ignorance as gun owners who should be listened to.

I have run into few FUDDs at the club. They are typically like the old man in the vid. They grew up in a time when carrying guns in public was taboo. They never fully adjusted to the notion of the 2A extending beyond the woods, let alone actually seeing someone in public not in uniform with a gun.

 

[CoMF]

No. My major beef with OC (and others here) is that in MY experience with it, the person doing it is doing it "cause he can" and not "cause he should". I know that sentiment isn't shared by all, but we live in different areas where different behavior is normal. I've said time and time again that if you live in an area where it is normal, then go for it. I can recall maybe 5 times I have seen OC and it's legal here.

So if you're gonna choose to walk around with a displayed weapon, and your main reason for doing it is "this is my right" and you KNOW it is going to raise eyebrows, then you aren't really any different than the AR fools on YouTube. If you're just OC'ing because you prefer that mode of carry for some reason, (in public, of course. Even my anti-gun sister in law sees nothing wrong with me carrying when I walk the woods) then you have to accept the good with the bad. You're right to OC doesn't trump my right to feel safe and secure in my surroundings. I remember some protest where a bunch of guys went to a restaurant with pistols on their hips. The other patrons were alarmed and somebody called the cops. The patrons made a big stink. It was a planned event to "raise awareness". Did those guys ever stop to think about the patrons whose meal was disrupted? Or the revenue the restaurant might have lost? Did they care? Of course not. And how did it help gun owners?

So what this all boils down to is the mistaken belief that individuals have a "right" to certain feelings, am I correct?

I hate to say this, kbm, but the right to keep and bear arms is a specifically enumerated and protected right. Conversely, the "right to feel safe and secure" is nothing more than a myth. Experience has shown that it exists solely in the minds of *buffet constitutionalists who would use it as a pretense for abridging the civil rights of others without due process.

* ("Buffet constitutionalism" entails throwing parts of the Constitution out the window when they don't comply with your ideals while insisting that the other parts which do comply are sacrosanct, akin to "picking" and "choosing" food items at a buffet.)

If some OC activists truly want to antagonize LEOs, I don't necessarily agree with it, but it's also none of my business. For every "bad" encounter, I'm willing to bet there are several more "good" ones and perhaps even ones that never occured in the first place because officers and 911 operators knew the law(s) within their jurisdiction. Besides, what're you worried about? You of all people should be familiar with the old saying: "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."

 

[CoMF]

Some additional food for thought... Judge Napolitano explains the difference between private property and "public accomodation" in regards to Open Carry in places of business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP1Wgkh5MeE

 

[kbm6893]

Should I say the idiots in the OC videos in YouTube characterize the average OC'er? That there is even a phrase for it "FUDD"
Is sad

 

[kbm6893]

Some additional food for thought... Judge Napolitano explains the difference between private property and "public accomodation" in regards to Open Carry in places of business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP1Wgkh5MeE

So if Judge Sotomauor explained it, would you take her word
As gospel?

 

[model 19/39]

OC/CC?

When open carry was passed here in Oklahoma, Governor Fallin made a PSA that the reason open carry was passed was so that an individual who was Concealed Carry would not be in violation of the brandishing/displaying statute if a inadvertent gust of wind blew their cover garment open or if for some reason their weapons was innocently exposed. This was aired well in advance of the actual date of the law taking effect. On the day the law took effect at 12:00 a young man (early 20's) walked into the El Reno WalMart wearing three holstered handguns for no other reason than to create a situation to garner attention. I know this young man and trust me he is incapable of explaining a "educational" line of reasoning why he was doing this and created a panic. Because of his belligerent attitude he was asked to leave and refused to do so, yelling that "it is my right to carry my guns on my belt wherever I want too. He was politely informed by the El Reno Police Dept., as they escorted him in handcuffs out of the store that yes he was within the law to carry but not to create a scene in the middle of the store when he was asked to leave by the management. He was not there to buy anything but solely to create a scene to draw attention to himself. I engaged him in conversation at my wife's store when he walked in their carrying his trio and asked him why he did this and he could not give a cognitive answer other than because I can. He then made the mistake of telling me I had no reason to ask him anything because I was one of those people that didn't believe in guns. He was more than a little taken aback when I advised him I had been carrying weapons longer than he had been alive and was doing so right then. His actions in several different establishments have caused them to forbid carrying anywhere in their establishments, some placed I have been carrying for years. But this little twit doesn't have the presence of mind to think he's only harming the case for carrying weapons in any condition. I carry constantly even when riding my motorcycle and was glad for the open carry because I could carry more securely on the bike with an OWB holster and didn't have to worry if my riding jacket rode up and my gun was exposed. I have nothing against open carry at all, but we are all saddled with extremists of some ilk who don't care about anybody else as long as the get their due amount of attention, which is ultimately what they are after.

 

[keith44spl]

I have nothing against open carry at all, but we are all saddled
with extremists of some ilk who don't care about anybody else
as long as the get their due amount of attention, which is ultimately what they are after.

I agree whole heartedly ^^^^^^^^Kinda like this here board.

I never really gave a flip either way....OC or CC, if they weren't throwin' down on me or shoot at me,

I have never took offense at any mode of carry by law-abiding folks.

I'm jest holding the middle ground on this'n.


.

 

[CoMF]

Should I say the idiots in the OC videos in YouTube characterize the average OC'er?

Nah. You seem to be doing a bang up job implying it.

That there is even a phrase for it "FUDD"
Is sad

Actually, "FUDD" isn't reserved solely for OC detractors. It's a term of endearment applied toward anybody who applies provincialism to the 2A.

So if Judge Sotomauor explained it, would you take her word
As gospel?

Considering she subscribes to the "living document" school of thought, no. I wouldn't.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

As far as I'm concerned, Justice Sotomayor can carry where and how she pleases.

Gun carry freedoms are a fairly recent development for many Americans as Shall Issue swept across the country. It takes some people longer than others to adjust to freedom.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

...And reality is when people call the cops they have a duty to respond and investigate. And a decent person would understand that his choice of carry has caused concern among some of his fellow citizens, and he would cooperate with the cops who are called

When handgun open carry was added as an option to Oklahoma's Self Defense Act, dispatchers and police officers were trained to ask questions when they got a MWAG calls.

"There's a man with a gun!"

"What's he doing?"

"Hello? He has a gun!"

"Yes, sir. What's he doing with the gun?"

""He's walking down the street with it!"

"Is it in his hand?"

"What? No! It's in a holster! Are you kidding me? He's got a gun!"

"So, this man is walking down the street with a gun in a holster?"

"Yeah!"

"Is he threatening anyone?"

"Uh,...no.?"

"What he's doing is legal, sir."

"What?"

"He's not breaking any laws, sir."

"He's not?"

"No, sir. Thank you for calling 9-1-1."

A "decent person" wouldn't worry about scaring people if he is carrying a handgun legally.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Circleville, Utah - population 505.

Would you wander into a cafe at noon in Provo or SLC strapped?

I walk into restaurants, cafes, steak houses, and stores in Tulsa, OK, open carrying. It's no big deal.

 

[Protected One]

When handgun open carry was added as an option to Oklahoma's Self Defense Act, dispatchers and police officers were trained to ask questions when they got a MWAG calls.

"There's a man with a gun!"

"What's he doing?"

"Hello? He has a gun!"

"Yes, sir. What's he doing with the gun?"

""He's walking down the street with it!"

"Is it in his hand?"

"What? No! It's in a holster! Are you kidding me? He's got a gun!"

"So, this man is walking down the street with a gun in a holster?"

"Yeah!"

"Is he threatening anyone?"

"Uh,...no.?"

"What he's doing is legal, sir."

"What?"

"He's not breaking any laws, sir."

"He's not?"

"No, sir. Thank you for calling 9-1-1."

A "decent person" wouldn't worry about scaring people if he is carrying a handgun legally.

Our definition of the word decent must really be different. To me, a "decent" person WOULD NOT want to be scaring people unnecessarily - regardless to the legality of what he's doing.
If a "decent" person has two options (both legal) for doing something (in this case, ccw) and one option will scare people while the other will not, the decent person will opt for the one that DOESN'T scare people, while the self-centered prick will do the opposite.
I am NOT against open carrying (depending on the situation), in fact....I will be open carrying in a few days, but it will be in a scarcely populated area where oc is common to all.

I know..I know, I should OC in a well populated area. That way everyone can see that the "big man" has a gun! [yeah, I'm bad]

 

[keith44spl]

Our definition of the word decent must really be different. To me, a "decent" person WOULD NOT want to be scaring people unnecessarily - regardless to the legality of what he's doing.
If a "decent" person has two options (both legal) for doing something (in this case, ccw) and one option will scare people while the other will not, the decent person will opt for the one that DOESN'T scare people, while the self-centered prick will do the opposite.
I am NOT against open carrying (depending on the situation), in fact....I will be open carrying in a few days, but it will be in a scarcely populated area where oc is common to all.

What a load of horse manure.......^^^^^^^

Folks that don't like OC in public....Jest get peeved at those who do





.

 

[Protected One]

What a load of horse manure.......^^^^^^^

Folks that don't like OC in public....Jest get peeved at those who do


.

Odds are that a picture taken from the front would have revealed his BADGE or security credentials.

Love it when people try to apply law enforcment carry methods to non-leo applications!!!

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Our definition of the word decent must really be different. To me, a "decent" person WOULD NOT want to be scaring people unnecessarily - regardless to the legality of what he's doing.
If a "decent" person has two options (both legal) for doing something (in this case, ccw) and one option will scare people while the other will not, the decent person will opt for the one that DOESN'T scare people, while the self-centered prick will do the opposite.
I am NOT against open carrying (depending on the situation), in fact....I will be open carrying in a few days, but it will be in a scarcely populated area where oc is common to all.

I know..I know, I should OC in a well populated area. That way everyone can see that the "big man" has a gun! [yeah, I'm bad]

The problem with your screed (other than, in effect, calling me a "self-centered prick" and assuming that I have some sort of "big man" complex) is that you think people are so weak-minded that they will be terrified by a man legally carrying a handgun. You do your fellow citizens a disservice.

Since I have been open carrying, no one has run screaming from my presence nor has anyone called the police about a MWAG. In fact, most people don't even notice. I did have one woman confront me in front of the Walmart Neighborhood Market angrily demanding to know why I was carrying a gun, but she wasn't the least little bit scared. Of course, if she had any inkling that you were carrying concealed, she'd have been just as confrontational.

I find it strange that the "concealed carry only" crowd constantly attacks the motives, intelligence, manhood (womanhood), and decency of open carriers, while open carry advocates rarely attack concealed carry as the choice of criminals, assassins, thugs, and sneaky underhanded b@$+@^#$. Since by your name-calling and disdain for your fellow citizens you have proven yourself less than "decent," I have nothing more to say to you. Good day, sir.

 

[Brian41]

Open carry is legal here but I only do when I'm hunting or out on my property as I don't need the added attention it might cause.
I've rarely seen anyone open carry here and the few occasions I have I did notice those around us didn't even seem to notice. That shows just how little pay attention to what goes on around them and maybe too they're so used to people with phones and other gadgets on their belts a gun is hardly noticed.
I'd like to see more open carry though as I believe the visual presence of guns helps to deter crime. I might open carry myself if it was more common at those times when it's a little more difficult to carry concealed.