OPERATED A DILLON 650 TODAY

[fredj338]

I currently use a single stage, and have been for over a year. As I have numerous "good" loads - I am starting to see the value of a AP press.

If using all new cases, I have no issues with an AP press - manufacture/ assemble away - it should produce excellent ammo and it seems absolutely the best way to go.

However, it seems to me that for fired brass - several reloading steps, described in all the reloading manuals, are completely skipped by the AP process/functionality and I question, is that wise?

For example, some brass lengthens after firing and re-sizing - for uniform crimping - it should be trimmed.

and, is the primer seating isolated from the other operations - so you can feel it seat? - or are other cases being de-primed/flared, seated, crimped and sized also during the same stroke and masking some of that "feel"?

and sometimes there are chunks of (carbon)? in the primer pockets - shouldn't that be checked and removed after de-capping?

shouldn't the small primers (45 ACP) be identified and separated when sorting through and examining fired brass, as bluejax states, before it goes into the case feeder?

Sometimes I wonder if some AP reloaders skip these steps just because its more convenient to keep the process going and churning out hundreds of rounds an hour - or that these steps are just completely unnecessary.

You can skip steps becasue many just don't apply.
Service pistol cases NEVER need triming.
You can still feel priming on most presses, just less so on the 1050.
There are no "chunks" of carbon in the primer pockets. For the most part, cleaning primer pockets is a waste of time.
Yes, one should visually inspect their brass before it goes into a case feeder, has nothing to do with a progressive.
After awhile you learn many things described in loading manuals are not all neccessary to make reliable, safe, accurate ammo. Many still do these things & load on a progressive. I just don't see the point.

 

[Prof_Fate]

Friday I got my 650 - have been using a lee loadmaster and it can do 350/hour for an hour or two then something gets out of adjustment and you spend a frustrating 30-45 minutes to sort it out and get moving again.
I got tired of the frustration and my wife tired of my cursing and told me to either quit reloading or find a better way.

OK...a dillon 650 with 38 and 9mm, casefeeder, better handle, second case plate and powder drop, second tool head - $1002. All that and more for my loadmaster was $380. HUGE difference in price. HUGE.

Used the same dies, so far only doing 38. The dillon is faster. Loading the primers is slower - a lot. Caliber conversions are PRICEY, very pricey. Changeover from one to the next seems about the same, time wise, depending of course on what all you need to change.

Casefeeder...huge, expensive, cool looking. However, you can't put more than 75-100 38 cases in it or it won't turn. And every 20-25 cases one gets tossed on the floor. And after 150 the microswitch stuck in the 'stop' postition. Better than the lee system? $30 vs $220 and it hold less, but it's more automated and quicker to fill..toss up.

About 40 cases in had one jam up in station 1. Was it me or something else I don't know. Bent the locater device though.

The handle keeps coming loose - got the alum handle over the stock knob. Annoying.

As to primers going 'bang' in a stack - everyone I know with a dillon has had this happen - I got mine from a commercial reloader that runs a dozen 1050s and it WILL happen. the 'isolated' primer goes bang and the shock sets off others - sometimes blowing a hole in the ceiling above the press.
I've seen the holes.
A guy at the range has a pair of 1050s and reloads about 30k a year in various calibers and had had primer stacks go off.
It happens, but it's not common.

In my loadmaster I had a number of sideways and upside down primers with no issues. I did have one go off (figure I loaded 5k rounds overall) and it blew up a number of primers, not the whole tray, and broke the primer feeder arm (it's plastic). Startled me but no damage.

I'm going to load more today, time how long 100 takes, etc and see how it goes compared to the loadmaster. it's not perfect - as the blue fans would have you belive (go to youtube and you'll find vids on fixes and tuning it (- primers used and new, 9mm cases throwing powder).

the directions are good - but not foolproof. The setting up of the powder measure leaves off a detail or two and is wrong on how far to screw the wingnut on - hence my youtube searches.

Is it worth three times the money of a loadmaster? If you need 600+ rounds of output per hour, yes. If you have lots of "extra" money, sure. If you have a low frustration threshold (as I do) then perhaps yes - but we'll see if it's as 'perfect and trouble free' as the fans claim once i"m past the learning curve of a new press.
If you load a lot of calibers or are in no hurry to load then the loadmaster may be for you. I reloaded 1500 9mm over the winter without much issue or stress. But didn't get to the 38s I needed for some recent competition and now I'm pressured to reload 200 RIGHT NOW and the fussy loadmaster just wouldn't cooperate. Will the dillon? We'll see.
But the $700 difference is a gun. Or a whole lot of ammo.

The loadmaster taught me a lot and easily paid for itself in savings of ammo and resale value will offset some of it. The cost difference of the dillon will be offset in about 2 years of shooting (savings vs factory ammo). So it depends I guess on how much you shoot.

 

[Prof_Fate]

Dillon claims 800-1000 rounds/hour from the 650, it's very similar to the 1050 from what I've been told. I was considering a 1050 - for reasons similar to yours - it's not as boring as i'd imagined just I have so little time it seems to do things I want to and making ammo isn't at the top of the list of fun things to do (like cleaning the house, cutting the grass, etc).

Reloading the primer tubes is a PITA. Seems the popular option is get 5 and reload them all while watchign tV and then you can do 500 rounds pretty quickly...
but the maching is capable of more so even that only gives you 30 minutes of output.

I'll be timing myself today but even on friday with my first loading session on it - going slow, watching, checking, I did 100 rounds in 9 minutes That's nearly 700 an hour -no filling of primer tubes though. Twice what my loadmaster would do and that was working that press (but 350 is a true output including primer and case restocking)

My Square Deal still works fine but after using the 650 today it makes my SD feel so slow, so antiquated and so tedious. I've been reloading for 30+ years now and only do it because of necessity - NOT because I enjoy it. I view reloading as a boring task that I must endure to shoot as often as I do. Because I dislike reloading I finally get around to it (when I run out of ammo in a specific caliber) and I will assemble 2000 - 3000 rounds which will last me for a while. I'll then cover the press until I run out of another caliber and that's how I reload. Some guys actually enjoy it and do a little a few times a week. The 650 is a means to make a boring tedious task go quicker - for me. Might consider selling my SD and buying a 650.

 

[blujax01]

...
As to primers going 'bang' in a stack - everyone I know with a dillon has had this happen - I got mine from a commercial reloader that runs a dozen 1050s and it WILL happen. the 'isolated' primer goes bang and the shock sets off others - sometimes blowing a hole in the ceiling above the press.
....

Prof Fate, I'm sorry to hear of your negative experience with the XL650. This is not the norm, by far. My casefeeder will easily transport 300 or 400 cases at a time. And they never fall out, nor has the switch failed. Spending a thousand dollars should not give you this kind of performance. May I suggest a call to their technicians? I'm sure Dillon does not want these sorts of reviews to be out there.

But on an up note,after several years and tens of thousands of rounds, I have not blown my primer tube up so you can now say that everyone you know except one person has blown a hole in the ceiling with their Dillon.

 

[Prof_Fate]

I'm sure NO company wants any review that is frothing at the mouth wonderful.
And that's all i heard about dillon...so I got one.

So this is a review of my initial experiences with it.

On another forum I was accused of not reading the manual, setting it up too quick, being an idiot for looking online for assistance, etc. Well, 7pm on a friday of a holiday weekend I'd never expect any service dept to be available so I never bothered to call.
the issues I had/have are NOT addressed in the directions - other than maybe the case jumping is an 'unsteady workbench' so I've made it sturdier yet...it's 250lbs already...1/2" cdx over and under 2x6 top, thick wood top (not particle board), 4x4 legs, 3 sides enclosed for sturdiness, bolts not screws for assembly. Other than poured concrete I"m not sure ANY bench is more solid. (and I went from a shaky setup to that to improve my loadmaster's workings and saw little to no difference leading me to belive the bench didn't do much)

 

[Bkreutz]

Prof Fate, I'm sorry to hear of your negative experience with the XL650. This is not the norm, by far. My casefeeder will easily transport 300 or 400 cases at a time. And they never fall out, nor has the switch failed. Spending a thousand dollars should not give you this kind of performance. May I suggest a call to their technicians? I'm sure Dillon does not want these sorts of reviews to be out there.

But on an up note,after several years and tens of thousands of rounds, I have not blown my primer tube up so you can now say that everyone you know except one person has blown a hole in the ceiling with their Dillon.

except two

 

[blujax01]

I'm sure NO company wants any review that is frothing at the mouth wonderful.
And that's all i heard about dillon...so I got one.

So this is a review of my initial experiences with it.

On another forum I was accused of not reading the manual, setting it up too quick, being an idiot for looking online for assistance, etc. Well, 7pm on a friday of a holiday weekend I'd never expect any service dept to be available so I never bothered to call.
the issues I had/have are NOT addressed in the directions - other than maybe the case jumping is an 'unsteady workbench' so I've made it sturdier yet...it's 250lbs already...1/2" cdx over and under 2x6 top, thick wood top (not particle board), 4x4 legs, 3 sides enclosed for sturdiness, bolts not screws for assembly. Other than poured concrete I"m not sure ANY bench is more solid. (and I went from a shaky setup to that to improve my loadmaster's workings and saw little to no difference leading me to belive the bench didn't do much)

I forgot it was a holiday weekend. You are correct, there won't be anyone there.

I hope things turn out well for you. It just goes to show that not everyone has the same experience as I did.

I'd be angry too.

Peace.

 

[MKT]

except two

Make that except three.

I did something wrong, not sure what but my 650 had a little hand up. I put a little more pressure on the handle and pop...pop, pop, pop right up the stack. The plastic rod blew out and the upper layers of primers flew everywhere. Not sure how many detonated but it definitely caught my attention. I complete disassembled the primer assembly and cleaned everything, somehow ended up with a mashed primer under the wheel, not sure if the was primer zero or not. The way the feed is designed, a tube within a tube directed everything up. For me it was no harm, no foul....no damage, no injury (other than pride).

As for speed, I don't load with speed, very deliberate and I can still crank out 2-300 rounds in short order. Change over from 9mm to .38 is actually pretty quick provided you are loading the same load/projectile that you did last session. A quick swap of toolheads, checking dimensions with dummy rounds and checking the powder throw. The change to .41 Mag is a much slower process as it involves die changes and the powder funnel/flare piece swap.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

I have a 650 and haven't blown a primer tube up. The only issue I've had with my Dillon was the primer advance would not function correctly, the indexing arm would get stuck in one of the holes. Took the primer system apart and ran a fine tooth flat file over the primer disc.

Filling the primer tubes IMO is the worst. Bought some extra tubes and a Vibra prime from Midway. Makes filling those tubes faster and easier.
So far I load 9mm, 40, 44 Mag, and 30 carbine on the 650. Will be adding 223 and 30-06 soon. Its a great press and wouldn't trade it for anything...Eric

 

[rck281]

Agreed. ...A single activated primer cannot "set off the others in the tube". I do wish people would stop making stuff up.

I admit that I did not see the damage. This is what I was told.

 

[fredj338]

Dillon claims 800-1000 rounds/hour from the 650, it's very similar to the 1050 from what I've been told. I was considering a 1050 - for reasons similar to yours - it's not as boring as i'd imagined just I have so little time it seems to do things I want to and making ammo isn't at the top of the list of fun things to do (like cleaning the house, cutting the grass, etc).

Reloading the primer tubes is a PITA. Seems the popular option is get 5 and reload them all while watchign tV and then you can do 500 rounds pretty quickly...
but the maching is capable of more so even that only gives you 30 minutes of output.

I'll be timing myself today but even on friday with my first loading session on it - going slow, watching, checking, I did 100 rounds in 9 minutes That's nearly 700 an hour -no filling of primer tubes though. Twice what my loadmaster would do and that was working that press (but 350 is a true output including primer and case restocking)

Just buy more tubes. I can fill a primer tube & load it into the press in 2min. Preloading 7-8 tubes will give an hours worth of reloading. I am fine with just 30min at a time, 300-400rds is easily done, enough for a weekends shooting.
Blowing up the priming tube is like getting struck by lightening. I am sure it can be done, but in more than 200K rds on a 550 & 650, it's never happened to me.

 

[gaijin]

FYIW;
I have owned the 1050 and loaded .38 Super exclusively (was a competitive shooter- NRA Action Pistol and IPSC/USPSA). Loaded over 300K rds. on this press.
I currently load on a 650 (for quantity handgun; 9mm, .45 ACP) and use a 550 for revolver and rifle (don't shoot nearly as many).

I have NEVER had a primer "blow up" as described. This with over 500 rds. loaded to date.

 

[Bkreutz]

Just buy more tubes. I can fill a primer tube & load it into the press in 2min. Preloading 7-8 tubes will give an hours worth of reloading. I am fine with just 30min at a time, 300-400rds is easily done, enough for a weekends shooting.
Blowing up the priming tube is like getting struck by lightening. I am sure it can be done, but in more than 200K rds on a 550 & 650, it's never happened to me.

Or you could spend $300 and get the electric primer filler https://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23474/catid/9/Dillon_RF_100_Sm__Primer_Filler (I don't have one of these, I kind of enjoy the break every 100 rounds to fill a tube).

 

[Prof_Fate]

Hmm....
i snugged up the clutch and it now feeds cases...down the tube anyway.
Out of 190 attempts 165 cases were fed, 10 were crushed as every time I got the least bit quick the cases wouldn't sit in the feed locator tray and stopped short.
I hope I don't have any squibs...when the press goes part way it will advance anyway...so no seated bullet, no crimped bullet (fish it out of the bin), no powder dropped and I now have half a dozen primed cases.

Hmm..5% reject rate. Not so great.
First "100" I did in 10 minutes, second hundred took 16 minutes as I had to watch for the case issue and found out the advance was happening.

I guess I'll find out tomorrow how good dillon's customer service really is.

 

[*chris*]

Hmm....
i snugged up the clutch and it now feeds cases...down the tube anyway.
Out of 190 attempts 165 cases were fed, 10 were crushed as every time I got

What caliber was your 650 setup for when you bought it? What caliber are you trying to reload now?

Sounds like either the Case Insert Slide is reversed (the long incline is for pistol) or you have either the wrong casefeed arm bushing or casefeed adapter installed. The casefeed adapter is in a separate bag in the box.

I also bought a Dillon 650 last week and have found the feeding of 9mm cases to be flawless, I have loaded 300 rounds without one misfed case.

Regarding the power case feeder, I have one on my Hornady LNL AP and a too loose drive bushing is a common occurrence with the plates from the factory. I have all 4 plates for my casefeeder and they were all too loose from the factory.

Chris

 

[RottyJohn]

Check to see if you have it set for pistole or rifle cases.
RJ

 

[fredj338]

Hmm....
i snugged up the clutch and it now feeds cases...down the tube anyway.
Out of 190 attempts 165 cases were fed, 10 were crushed as every time I got the least bit quick the cases wouldn't sit in the feed locator tray and stopped short.
I hope I don't have any squibs...when the press goes part way it will advance anyway...so no seated bullet, no crimped bullet (fish it out of the bin), no powder dropped and I now have half a dozen primed cases.

Hmm..5% reject rate. Not so great.
First "100" I did in 10 minutes, second hundred took 16 minutes as I had to watch for the case issue and found out the advance was happening.

I guess I'll find out tomorrow how good dillon's customer service really is.

Well something is certainly setup wrong. Mine ran literally right out of the box, just add dies, set the measure & go. One does need to check screws & such, things do come loose & can start tying up the process.
FWIW, the whole primer tune loading thing is so over rated. Just for fun tonight, I went from empty primer tube to 100rds in right @ 8min. So even loading tubes at the bench, which I never do, that is still 750rds per hr & I had to swap out one flipped case & one that had a buggered case mouth & wouldn't feed, still, 8min for 100rds, visually inspecting every powder charge prior to seating the bullet.

 

[blujax01]

Man-Oh-Man, it sounds like your machine is bolloxed up proper. I have no doubt that the Dillon folks can help.

To be honest, I don't put out the numbers some of you folks are talking about. Although I could load 100 rounds in under 10 minutes, I generally take much more time than that. Especially for the first several hundred.

And if I were to get a "no powder" case, I would see it at station three as I'm looking into each case as it exits the powder station. There's some good "lighting for your press" threads that helped me bunches.

I like that "100 unit break" every 12 to 15 minutes to refill the primer tubes. I take that opportunity to do a powder check (even though it never budges), measure OAL (ditto) and put a finished round through a case gage (*plop*) as well as make certain I have plenty of powder, cases and bullets at hand. This has become an indispensable part of my routine.

So I guess I'm making about 400 to 500 rounds an hour with very few mistakes (actually approaching zero defects per thousand).

I wish this Internet thing allowed more face-to-face encounters. I have a feeling that we could make fixes and learn set up and running tips from each other much easier that way.

"One to Transport to the Reloading Lab" - Scotty, beam me up!!!

In the meantime, if anyone is in central Ohio and wants to get together, we can talk.

 

[Moonman]

You can always check the Brian Enos FORUM under reloading.

A forum exists there for Dillon equipment and One for NON-DILLON equipment.

Maybe you can find answers there OR ASK YOUR QUESTION.

There is a DILLON FORUM also.

Lots of knowledgeable folks and Shooting Competitors too.

You might even give Brian Enos a call, (Google it) he's very knowledgeable and HELPFUL with Dillon and Stuff.

 

[Prof_Fate]

I look in the cases too but it's very very hard to see 2.9gr of bullseye in a 38 spcl case. the loadmaster never shorted a case of powder so it's not something i was looking for as I was distracted by other issues regarding the case feeding.